The greatest myth circulated by postwar communists is that Wehermacht's anti partisan operation was directed against civilians which is biggest hoax ever circulated
Really? Then how do you explain the enormous disproportion between the number of “partisans” killed on the one hand and the number of firearms apprehended and German casualties on the other that becomes apparent from German
documents on the anti-partisan operations in Belorussia?
Roberto infact there were no independent partisans in Belorussia or Ukraine and infact they were NVKD operative's in garb of partisans and they took there orders from BERIA the monster head of NVKD
You talk a lot of bull when the day is long, my friend. What is the source of your contention that all Belorussian/Ukrainian partisans were NKVD operatives?
Also STALIN would never permit independent partisan to operate as they would become troublesource for him once war ended and stalin & beria were not fools to allow non communist partisans to operate and all partisans that operated against HEERS were regular member of NVKD and not civilians as claimed by later day communist propoganda.
More baloney. While I would agree that Stalin was reluctant in regard to partisan movements not controlled by the Soviet government and thus saw to it that partisan units were under the control of NKVD cadres, I find it extremely hard to believe that all 200,000 or so partisans in German-occupied territory were operatives of the NKVD. All sources that I have consulted point out that the majority of partisans were local folks who ran to the woods escaping German brutality and deportation for forced labor. The Germans were well aware of this, as several utterances by German officials show. Just this one by Jodl:
“In a fight, you [or „they“, depending on whom the speaker is addressing] can do whatever you [or „they“] want: You [or „they“ ] may hang them, hang them upside down or quarter them. The only restriction concerns reprisals after the fight. I must be sure that I don’t expell the male population thereby. For news of such will spread from village to village, and then another 2000 men will run off to the bandit areas.“
Translated from Guido Knopp, Der verdammte Krieg. Stalingrad 1942-43.
C. Bertelsmann Verlag, page 118
There was at least one partisan organization which was anti-Soviet and fought both the German occupiers and the Red Army, by the way - the Ukrainian Insurgent Army: http://www.infoukes.com/upa/
Also most of the partisans commited horific atrocities against civilians whom they wished withouth any reason or logic and after end of war atrocities of nvkd partisans was blamed on WEHERMACHT till today no reasonable investigation is made on atrocities commited by partisans on civilians and blamed on wehermacht infact a reasonable enquiry would proved the role of partisan
While I have no doubt that the partisans committed horrific atrocities against both German soldiers and civilians deemed to be “collaborators”, you still have to show me evidence to a single such atrocity that was blamed on the German invaders. The killings during operation “Bamberg” and the other major anti-partisan operations which, according to German
records, killed more than 130,000 people in Belorussia alone, must certainly be ruled out.
Also many times nvkd controlled partisans commited atrocities on civilians in by wearing wehermacht uniform
If you still believe in that myth, my friend, I recommend you read again the actual text of Stalin Order 0428 on the thread
Stalin Order O428http://pub3.ezboard.com/fskalmanforumfr ... =175.topic
of the old forum.
One more thing roberto you may doubt but told to me by father of my ukranian friend that stalin hated ukranians and tried to massacare them by way of artificial famine when operation barbossa started it was god sent oppurtunity for stalin to reduce maximum no's of ukranians by sandwiching them in war and hence on BERIA's verbal order NVKD controlled partisans started killing spree of ethnic ukranians in Ukraine ,it was only when Wehermacht started anti partisan operations that this frenzy of killing of ukranians stopped .
Well, “father of friend told me” is not exactly a source that I consider relevant on an issue like this. While it is known that the NKVD committed gruesome massacres of real or alleged opponents of the Communist regime incarcerated in various prisons in the Western Ukraine during the Soviet retreat in 1941, there is no evidence whatsoever
of a whole-sale killing spree against ethnic Ukrainians by “NVKD controlled partisans”, which I strongly doubt even existed at the time.
had wehermacht not undertaken anti partisans operation in ukraine then substaintial no of ethnic ukranians would had been murdered by nvkd controlled partisans , thus enabaling stalin to achive his aim of destroying ukranian ethnicity.
Yeah, Wehrmacht saved poor Ukrainians from bad, bad NKVD partisans. Which they presumably did by burning to the ground the village of Kortelisy on September 23, 1942 and killing all its 2,892 population of men, women and children, by destroying 459 villages in Ukraine completely with all or part of their population, at least 27 of them with the entire population of men, women and children, right? (Ukrainska RSR u Velykyi Vitchyznianiy Viyni
, vol.3, p. 150, as quoted in Andrew Gregorovich, World War II in Ukraine
Infact anti partisan operation by wehermacht was war against NVKD and its mass-genocide policies not against civilians
They sure did. The pertinent German documents are plain proof thereof, aren’t they?
On the Eastern front orders such as Keitel’s order of 16 September 1941 called for ruthless and indiscriminate repression of resistance from the very start. Excerpt from an online translation:
To nip the plots in the bud the most drastic means are to be employed immediately at the first provocation in order to make the authority of the occupation force prevail and to prevent further spreading. Attention should be paid to the fact that a human life in the countries concerned often means nothing and only by unusual severity can a deterrent effect be achieved. In these cases the life of one German soldier must be atoned for by the death sentence for 50 to 100 communists, as a rule. The manner of execution shall further increase the deterrent effect.
Source of quote: http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/genocide/USSR4.htm
Keitel became even more explicit in his order of 16.12.1942:
1.) Der Feind setzt im Bandenkampf fanatische, kommunistisch geschulte Kämpfer ein, die vor keiner Gewalttat zurückschrecken. Es geht hier mehr denn je um Sein oder Nichtsein. Mit soldatischer Ritterlichkeit oder mit den Vereinbarungen der Genfer Konvention hat dieser Kampf nichts mehr zu tun.
Wenn dieser Kampf gegen die Banden sowohl im Osten wie auf dem Balkan nicht mit den allerbrutalsten Mitteln geführt wird, so reichen in absehbarer Zeit die verfügbaren Kräfte nicht mehr aus, um dieser Pest Herr zu werden.
Die Truppe ist daher berechtigt und verpflichtet, in diesem Kampf ohne Einschränkung auch gegen Frauen und Kinder jeder Mittel anzuwenden, wenn es nur zum Erfolg führt.
Rücksichten, gleich welcher Art, sind ein Verbrechen gegen das deutsche Volk und den Soldaten an der Front, der die Folgen der Bandenanschläge zu tragen hat und keinerlei Verständnis für irgendwelche Schonung der Banden oder ihrer Mitläufer haben kann.
Diese Grundsätze müssen auch die Anwendung des “Kampfanweisung für die Bandenbekämpfung im Osten” beherrschen.
2.) Kein in der Bandenbekämpfung angesetzter Deutscher darf wegen seines Verhaltens im Kampf gegen die Banden und ihre Mitläufer disziplinarisch oder kriegsgerichtlich zur Rechenschaft gezogen werden.
Die Befehlshaber der im Bandenkampf eingesetzten Truppen sind dafür verantwortlich, daß
sämtliche Offiziere der ihnen unterstellten Einheiten über diesen Befehl umgehend in der eindringlichsten Form belehrt werden,
ihre Rechtsberater von diesem Befehl sofort Kenntnis erhalten,
keine Urteile bestätigt werden, die diesem Befehl widersprechen.
Source of quote: Ernst Klee/Willi Dressen, ”Gott mit uns”: Der deutsche Vernichtungskrieg im Osten 1939-1945
, 1989 S. Fischer Verlag GmbH Frankfurt am Main, page 68. Reference of quote: Verfahren Js 4/65 GstA Ffm, Freiburger Bände Bd. III.
1.) In the bandit fighting the enemy uses fanatical fighters with communist training who shrink from no act of violence. The issue here is more an ever one of to be or not to be. With soldierly chivalry or the agreements of the Geneva Convention this fight no longer has anything to do.
If this fight against the bandits both in the East and on the Balkans is not conducted by the most brutal means, the forces available will in a foreseeable time no longer be sufficient to control this plague.
The troops are thus authorized and obliged to employ in this fight any means, also against women and children, if only they lead to success.
Considerations of whatever nature are a crime against the German people and the soldier at the front, who must bear the consequences of the bandits’ attacks and thus can have no understanding for any mercy granted to the bandits or their followers.
There principles must also govern the application of the “Combat Instructions for the Fight Against Bandits in the East”.
2.) No German employed in the fight against the bandits may be taken to reckoning disciplinarily or by court martial on account of his behavior in the fight against the bandits and their followers.
The commanders of the troops employed in the fight against the bandits are responsible for seeing to it that
all officers of the units subordinated to them are notified of this order immediately and in the most thorough form,
their legal consultants obtain knowledge of this order immediately,
no verdicts contradicting this order are confirmed.
The results of the application of such orders can be seen i.a. in the data of the major anti-partisan actions in Belorussia between 1942 and 1944 according to Christian Streit's Kalkulierte Morde
Codename; Period; Area; Number of Dead Partisans/Civilians; Number of Captured Firearms; Number of Dead in German Formations
Bamberg; 26.03 - 06.04; Glusk, Bobruisk; 4,396; 47; 7
?; 09.05 - 12.05; Klitshev, Bobruisk; 520; 3; 10
?; Beginning of June; Slovodka, Bobruisk; 1,000; ?; ?
?; 15.06; Borki; 1,741; 7; 0
?; 21.06; Zbyshin; 1,076; ?; ?
?; 25.06; Timkovtshi; 900; ?;?
?; 26.06; Studenka; 836; ?;?
?; 18.07; Yelsk; 1,000; ?; ?
Adler; 15.07-07.08; Bobruisk, Mogilev, Beresino; 1,381; 438; 25
Greif; 14.08-20.08; Orsha, Vitebsk; 796; ?; 26
Sumpffieber; 22.08-21.09; White Ruthenia; 10,063; ?; ?
?; 22.09-26.09; Malorita; 4,038; 0; 0
Blitz; 23.09-03.10; Polozk, Vitebsk; 567; ?; 8
Karlsbad; 11.10-23.10; Orsha, Vitebsk; 1,051; 178; 24
Nürnberg; 23.11-29.11; Dubrovka; 2,974; ?; 6
Hamburg; 10.12-21.12; Neman-Shtshara; 6,172; 28; 7
Altona; 22.12-29.12; Slonim; 1,032; ?; 0
Franz; 06.01-14.01; Grodsyanka; 2,025; 280; 19
Peter; 10.01-11.01; Klitshev, Kolbtsha; 1,400; ?; ?
?; 18.01-23.01; Sluzk,Minsk, Tsherven; 825; 141; 0
Waldwinter; until 01.02; Sirotino-Trudy; 1,627; 159; 20
Erntefest I; until 28.01; Tsherven, Ossipovitshi; 1,228; 163; 7
Erntefest II; until 09.02; Sluzk, Kopyl; 2,325; 314; 6
Hornung; 08.02-26.02; Lenin, Hansevitshi; 12,897; 133; 29
Schneehase; 28.01-15.02; Polozk, Rossony, Krasnopolye; 2,283; 54; 37
Winterzauber; 15.02 - end of March; Osveja, Latvian border; 3,904; ?; 30
Kugelblitz; 22.02-08.03; Polozk, Osweja, Drissa, Rossony; 3,780; 583; 117
Nixe; until 19.03; Ptitsh-Mikashevitshi, Pinsk; 400; ?; ?
Föhn; until 21.03; Pinsk; 543; ?; 12
Donnerkeil; 21.03-02.04; Polozk, Vitebsk; 542; 91; 5
Draufgänger II; 01.05-09.05; Rudnya and Manyly forest; 680; 110; 0
Maigewitter; 17.05-21.05; Vitebsk, Surash, Gorodok; 2,441; 143; ?
Cottbus; 20.05-23.06; Lepel, Begomel, Ushatshi; 11,796; 1,057; 128
Weichsel; 27.05-10.06; Dniepr-Pripiet Triangle southwest of Gomel; 4,018; 1,570; 28
Ziethen; 13.06-16.06; Retshitza; 160; ?; 5
Seydlitz; 25.06-27.07; Ovrutsh-Mosyr; 5,106; 528; 34
?; 30.07; Mosyr; 501; ?; ?
Günther; until 14.07; Voloshin, Lagoisk; 3,993; ?; 11
Hermann; 13.07-11-08; Ivje, Novogrodek, Wolishin, Stolbzy; 4,280; 986; 52
Fritz; 24.09-10.10; Glebokie; 509; 46; 12
?; 09.10 - 22.10; Stary Bychov; 1,769; 302; 64
Heinrich; 01.11-18.11; Rossony, Polozk, Idritza; 5,452; 476; 358
?; December; Spaskoye; 628; ?;?
?; December; Beloye; 1,453; ?; ?
Otto; 20.12-01.01.1944; Osveja; 1,920; 30; 21
?; 14.01; Ala; 1,758; ?; ?
?; 22.01; Baiki; 987; ?; ?
Wolfsjagd; 03.02-15.02; Glusk, Bobruisk; 467; ?; 6
Sumpfhahn; until 19.02; Glusk, Bobruisk; 538; ?; 6
?; Beginning of March; Beresino, Belnytshi; 686; ?; ?
Auerhahn; 07.04-17.04; Bobruisk; 1,000; ?; ?
Frühlingsfest; 17.04-12.05; Polozk, Ushatshi; 7,011; 1,065; 300
Pfingstausflug; June; Senno; 653; ?; ?
Windwirbel; June; Chidra; 560; 103; 3
Pfingsrose; 02.06-13.06; Talka; 499; ?; ?
Kormoran; 25.05-17.06; Vileika, Borissov, Minsk; 7,697; 325; 110
139,884 partisans/civilians killed
100,070 partisans/civilians killed, 9,360 firearms captured
112,603 partisans/civilians killed, 1,533 dead in German and auxiliary formations
In the above listed major anti-partisan actions in Belorussia between 1942 and 1944, at least 139,884 partisans and civilians were killed. The list is a transcription / translation of the one in Gerlach’s a.m. book, which is based on the contemporary German records that the author could get hold of. The number of dead was probably even higher, given that Gerlach’s list also includes the “prisoners” who, according to Gerlach, were mostly executed. These figures I have left out for simplification reasons.
The “Total II” of the above list gives the number of partisan / civilian dead in such operations for which the total of apprehended firearms of all types (rifles, pistols, machine guns, occasionally also heavy weapons) could be established. It shows that the number of dead was more than ten times higher than the number of apprehended firearms, which suggests that 90 % of those killed were not partisans but unarmed civilians.
The “Total II” of the above list gives the number of partisan / civilian dead in such operations for which the number of dead in the German and auxiliary formations could be established. It shows that in these operations 112,603 “partisans” but only 1,533 members of anti-partisan formations were killed – a ratio of 73 to 1 - , which is another indication of how few of those killed by the German formations were actually partisans.
The major actions listed above were not those that accounted for the greatest number of victims. On the contrary, most of those killed in anti-partisan warfare in Belorussia between 1941 and 1944 fell victim to countless smaller operations, as demonstrated by Gerlach in his a.m. book.
For the whole of Belorussia and the period between July 1941 and July 1944, Gerlach established a total of 345,000 victims of rural anti-partisan operations among the population. 14,000 of these were Jews. Partisan losses, according to Soviet sources quoted by Gerlach, were 26,000 plus 11,800 missing most of whom, according to Gerlach, must be considered as dead. These data confirm the assumptions that result from comparing the number of dead “partisans” in the major actions on the one hand with the number of apprehended firearms and the German losses on the other: 9 in every 10 people killed by German anti-partisan units were not partisans, but unarmed civilians (Gerlach, as above, pages 957/958).
Beside the victims of anti-partisan operations, according to Gerlach, the German occupiers killed on the territory of Belorussia about 700,000 prisoners of war, 500,000 to 550,000 Jews and 100,000 others, mainly Communist functionaries, members of the Polish intelligentsia as well as urban resistance fighters and their supporters – altogether between 1.6 million and 1.7 million people.
Let me get this straight, my friend: I have no sympathy whatsoever with Communism let alone with Stalin, one of the three or four greatest mass murderers in history (the others being Adolf Hitler, Mao Tse Tung and Genghis Khan, not necessarily in that order). But I think your infantile “evil Communists vs. noble Wehrmacht” black-and-white imaging is completely out of touch with reality. Which makes you either a very naïve character who blindly trusts whosoever’s tales and never looked up any serious sources on the issues at hand or a propagandist bent on whitewashing the Nazi regime. As which of them do you want me to see you?