Churchill tanks at Estry Aug 6th 1944

Discussions on the vehicles used by the Axis forces. Hosted by Christian Ankerstjerne
Post Reply
Michael Kenny
Member
Posts: 8272
Joined: 07 May 2002, 20:40
Location: Teesside

Churchill tanks at Estry Aug 6th 1944

#1

Post by Michael Kenny » 09 Nov 2016, 21:14

This is how the fighting is described in 6th Guards Tank Brigade by Patrick Forbes:



It was intended that No 2 Squadron of the Grenadiers carrying the Gordons, proceed down the main road from Aunay-sur-Odon and capture Estry, after which Left Flank, with the Highland Light Infantry, would pass through and capture Le Theil, a mile or so to the south-east. At the same time Right Flank would push down the Vassy road from La Caverie
and take the high ground above Canteloup, which forms the eastern edge of the Le Theil ridge. On their left, the Coldstream with 46th Brigade, would also push south, and, after capturing Lassy and La Rocke, drive on to Vassy—this whole operation being necessary to cover the left flank of an offensive which the Guards Armoured Division were about to undertake.
Intelligence reports stated that the Brigade was unlikely to encounter opposition. This turned out to be a case of profound misinformation. A thick fog covered the countryside that morning and the attack by the Coldstream was delayed on account of it. The Grenadiers moved off at 9.30 having been told that the Welsh Guards might well be in Estry by the time they arrived. All went well until the leading troop was within 50 yards of the cross-roads at Estry where the Infantry reported a minefield as well as an anti-tank gun. Repeated attempts by the tanks and the Infantry to get round this cross-roads to the left met with no success and it soon became obvious that enemy armour, surrounded by mines and supported by anti-tank guns, was defending the village and intended to hold on to it at all costs.
A gallant attempt to knock out a German Tank by Lord Oliver Fitzroy did not succeed and after he had expended all his armour piercing ammunition and was backing his tank out of an orchard, a German sniper in a tree directly above fired, and killed him instantaneously. By 4 o'clock the situation was becoming extremely unpleasant. The Infantry were having heavy casualties from incessant mortaring and machine-gun fire and the tanks had no room to manoeuvre. Every attempt they made to advance was doomed to failure.
Left Flank and the Highland Light Infantry who had followed close behind the Grenadiers, expecting to go through Estry and straight on to Le Theil, had been forced to halt when the
Grenadiers had been held up. They were compelled to remain at a point where a sunken lane leaves the main road until early evening and both the Infantry and the tanks suffered casualties from mortar and shell fire which descended on them all day.
At 7 o'clock it was decided that what was left of No. 2 Squadron of the Grenadiers should be withdrawn and that the Highland Light Infantry and Left Flank should make a final attempt to
capture the cross-roads at Estry. Although a promised artillery barrage did not materialize the attack started at 7.15 with two troops supporting a Company of the Highland Light Infantryon either side of the road.
On the right of the road very little opposition was encountered. Lieut. Marshall and Lieut. Duffin soon reached the cross-roads, but Lieut. Marshall's tank, coming down onto the
sunken road from a high bank, went up on a mine and his co-driver, Gdsm. Finch, was killed. On the left, the Infantry were immediately held up by machine-gun fire in very thick
country and a spirited fight ensued during which the Infantry directed the fire of the tanks and successfully completed the silencing of the machine-gun posts.
Just as Lieut. Barne emerged from the last orchard before the village church, he saw a Panther in a shed two hundred yards ahead of him. He quickly traversed his gun and scored a hit with H . E . but the Panther replied setting his tank on fire and causing the crew to bale out: two of them were shot by machinegun fire as they tried to get away. After this the troop withdrew under smoke and joined Lieut. Lord Bruce who was using his revolver to shoot the leader of a party of Germans who were calling on him and Sgt. Coleman to surrender. Lieut. Barne then directed the S.P. guns on the Panther which was soon destroyed.
The tanks remained where they were and helped the Highland Light Infantry to overcome numerous machine-gun nests, but when the light began to fade the whole Squadron manoeuvred into a hedgehog position in the orchard at the north-east corner of the cross-roads. The two platoons of the Highland Light Infantry which had managed to advance beyond the cross-roads were withdrawn, and since both Battalions of Infantry had
suffered severe casualties, they took up positions protected by the tanks and so spent the night...........................................

Renewed uttacks on Estry from the north-west by all three Squadrons of the Grenadiers during the next four days were no more successful. On the 8th of August, after Corps Artillery
had hammered at Estry for a full hour. No. 3 Squadron, the RSF and the KOSB did their best to help six Crocodiles and 6 AVRE manoeuvre into position so that they could throw their missiles against the enemy defences. However, as far as was known, not one of these special tanks was able to get near enough to fire its weapon, because as soon as they approached
Estry, the banks and sunken lanes made it quite impossible for them to proceed. After the second attempt to take Estry had failed. No. 3 Squadron remained in close support of the Infantry and for many hours was given a very unpleasant reception by the dug-in Tigers, snipers and mortars.
During the early hours of the 9th, No. 1 Squadron took over from No. 3. They also found it impossible to advance and spent a long and tiring day being continually attacked by mortars,
bazookas, 150 mm. S.P. guns and snipers, one of the latter seriously wounding Lieut. Verney in the head. Just as No. 1 Squadron about to rally a few hundred yards behind the front positions, they were ordered by the Brigadier of 44th Brigade to remain where they were, since he felt that the Germans would counter-attack if they heard the tanks withdrawing.
The Infantry therefore provided a Company to guard the Churchills against tank-hunting parties. Small arms fire and innumerable eerie noises helped to keep everyone on the alert
throughout the night. When No. 2 Squadron took over from them at dawn the next morning. No. 1 had been in the line for eighteen solid hours.
It had now become obvious that the Germans intended tofight to the last man, so the Grenadiers were ordered merely to cover the enemy's line of escape and wait until he withdrew, which was inevitable in the near future. A whole Infantry Brigade, a tank Battalion, Flails, Crocodiles, AVRE , Corps Artillery, and air bombardment had failed completely to drive the Germans out of Estry, and it was clear that they would not give in until their supplies had run out.
The sleepless nights, and the exhausting hours spent in the tanks with all hatches closed, and the sickening smell of dead cows scattered all over the fields, combined to make this vigil
over Estry one of the most unattractive tasks of the whole campaign. The enemy finally withdrew from Estry on August 11th and 12th and the Grenadiers were relieved by the 11th Armoured division who were to push on after the fleeing enemy to Vassy and beyond.



From War Diary:

The undermentioned personnel who are reported as “Missing” are so reported in the following circumstances. They were:-
2697719 Paid Lance-Corporal D. SUTHERLAND - Driver
2701138 Guardsman I. WALLACE - Gunner
2697876 Guardsman H. THOMPSON - Co-Driver
2698814 Guardsman T. McINTYRE - Operator

They were the crew of the tank “TAY” of which 2696468 Serjeant J. BIRSS, was the commander. On 6th August 1944, during the attack on the crossroads at ESTRY, this tank was seen to go forward through a hedgerow to engage a PANTHER tank which had just knocked out a tank of the troop in front. The tank was seen to swing off to the left away from the main axis of the attack and into the middle of a cluster of German machine gun nests. Nothing more was heard of seen of the tank as the direction of the attack swung off to the right, but a fire was seen later in the place where the tank had been last seen.

It was impossible to get to the place until the 14th August owing to the presence of the enemy. The tank was then found burnt out and holed through the front plate by a large projectile. Serjeant BIRSS was found and indentified dead on the ground some 5 yards from the tank. Two charred and unrecognisable or identifiable bodies were found in the turret which in all probability, were Guardsman WALLACE and Guardsman McINTRYE, the gunner and operator. Of Lance-Corporal SUTHERLAND and Guardsman THOMPSON, the driver and co-driver, no trace could be found. The tank had obviously been looted by the enemy as kit belonging to the tank was strewn all around. A blood-stained gaiter, a boot and two stretcher slings were found outside the tank. A little hut, but the other side of the hedge against which the tank was stopped, contained a tank first aid kit which had been opened and used. This coupled with the fact that the pannier doors were open give rise to the supposition that Lance-Corporal SUTHERLAND and Guardsman THOMPSON may have escaped, though wounded and possibly been made prisoners.
Signed Captain BALFOUR, Second-in-Command, Left Flank, 3rd Tank Battalion SCOTS GUARDS.
17th August 1944



Map in book:
You Must Remember This 125nnn bbbb.jpg
Rotated to place North to top:
You Must Remember This 125nnn-vert,,,,,,,,.jpg
Air view July 1944. The 'sunken lane' is wrongly located on the map. The actual route is in red below.
Estry ...nnnn....jpg
1947 air view with Churchill wrecks circled.
IGNF_PVA_1-0__1947-08-08__C1414-0121_1947_CDP3209_0010_stitch high marked b crop..,,,.........jpg
IGNF_PVA_1-0__1947-08-08__C1414-0121_1947_CDP3209_0010_stitch high marked b crop b2.jpg

Michael Kenny
Member
Posts: 8272
Joined: 07 May 2002, 20:40
Location: Teesside

Re: Churchill tanks at Estry Aug 6th 1944

#2

Post by Michael Kenny » 09 Nov 2016, 21:41

1947 Air views.

A & B are Churchills in the process of being dismantled. 'A' has half the turret a distance from the rest of the parts.
'B' is reduced to small parts and 'C' has the turret displaced
Estry 1-4 med quality small size halfed.......jpg
This is 'C' in background and 'B' demolished in foreground


Estry Churchill (2) sml.jpg
C again.
Estry Churchill (1)......jpg
Estry 1-4 med quality small size marked cropped  further ....  ,,,.jpg
This is a Churchill in the sunken lane. It is not visible in any of the photos
Estry Churchill (3).....jpg

Ian Daglish in his BLUECOAT book (where 3 of the photos came from) says a total of 11 Churchills were knocked out.


Shermaninterest
Member
Posts: 89
Joined: 08 Jun 2015, 19:23
Location: Germany

Re: Churchill tanks at Estry Aug 6th 1944

#3

Post by Shermaninterest » 12 Nov 2016, 01:36

Man, I love those posts with aerial pictures. Are those Churchill's connected to the first Jagdpanthers?

Michael Kenny
Member
Posts: 8272
Joined: 07 May 2002, 20:40
Location: Teesside

Re: Churchill tanks at Estry Aug 6th 1944

#4

Post by Michael Kenny » 15 Nov 2016, 21:25

The Jagdpanther action was on July 30 at Les Loges below Caumont. There are no known photos of those Churchills.

Here is another view of an Estry Churchill. It has mistakenly been attributed to the July 30 action but it is Churchill 'C' .

Estry Churchill...........  ,,.jpg

Juha
Member
Posts: 280
Joined: 29 Sep 2005, 11:38
Location: Finland

Re: Churchill tanks at Estry Aug 6th 1944

#5

Post by Juha » 16 Nov 2016, 02:25

Shermaninterest wrote:Man, I love those posts with aerial pictures...
Then you would probably like the Over the Battlefield series published by Pen & Sword.

MitSNormandy
Member
Posts: 2
Joined: 18 Nov 2016, 19:19
Location: Hyde, UK

Re: Churchill tanks at Estry Aug 6th 1944

#6

Post by MitSNormandy » 18 Nov 2016, 19:30

Hi all,
Just joined this site & found this thread very interesting... partly because I'm interested in 6th Guards Tank Brigade & 3rd Bn Scots Guards in particular (I pulled together a booklet covering their first day of operations in Operation BLUECOAT which ended on Hill 226) and also because I regularly stay in Estry when I visit Normandy.

In my collection, I have a copy of the final photo above that @Michael states is not from Hill 226 but from Estry... which I received from a Veteran who took part in the battles...

So, I'd be very interested to learn what evidence you have, @Michael to support your contention that the photo is from Estry as...
If you look carefully, at the three photos of "Tank C" the "226 photo”…
1. doesn’t have a building in the background
2. the wreckage on top of the turret looks different
3. the trees look different

What’s more the first two actually look different – if you check out the buildings…

I'm not saying that I'm right, or that you're right, but I am really interested to see how you arrived at your conclusions as they appear to go against the knowledge of a veteran that was there...

Cheers
Colin

Michael Kenny
Member
Posts: 8272
Joined: 07 May 2002, 20:40
Location: Teesside

Re: Churchill tanks at Estry Aug 6th 1944

#7

Post by Michael Kenny » 20 Dec 2016, 17:00

The photos we are working with are all poor quality so allowance must be made for this fact. Also that there could be several years between these photos.
Estry Churchill.........-horz.jpg
Photo B establishes without question that the location is Estry.

I would say photo A was taken first and quite near the action.
Photo B is much later as bricks from the demolition of some of the buildings are stacked to the right of the tank.

Photos B & C have the same piece of metal with a right angle 'bend' in it in exactly the same positions on the tank (pink line) It is in a different position in photo A but still there.

Photos C & B show that the metal plate on the track guard has the retaining bolts forced upwards (blue line)

Photos A & C both show the metal 'ring' thing with the same kinks in both (lt. blue line)
Estry Churchill (2)T-vert5-horzRTV.jpg
Just Noticed the markings for 79th Armoured Division on the bow plate of tank on right above. Not even Guards!
Bulls Head-horz.jpg
Bulls Head-horz.jpg (64.13 KiB) Viewed 3417 times

The break in the right track guard top run and the angle it is forced upwards is identical in all 3 pics
The turret is in the exact same position in all 3 pics. It would be a miracle to blow up a hull/ flip a turret with explosives and get the same result with 2 different tanks. I also believe this tank was destroyed by a demolition charge rather than an ammo cook-off. The tank in front of it certainly was and probably the one a little further north.

I do not know if you have done any photography but different lenses compress perspective. What seems close in a photo can be a good distance away in real life. Same with 'cropping. By choosing your viewpoint you can give the impression there is nothing near your subject.
The air photos show that between 1944 and 1947 this 'orchard' was culled to the point of extinction. It all depends on the dates the photos were taken.

I can say that in my experience the matches are so distinctive that there is not the slightest doubt this is the same Churchill in all 3 photos.

Michael Kenny
Member
Posts: 8272
Joined: 07 May 2002, 20:40
Location: Teesside

Re: Churchill tanks at Estry Aug 6th 1944

#8

Post by Michael Kenny » 21 Dec 2016, 20:23

It appears that the thing I described as ' metal plate on the track guard has the retaining bolts forced upwards ' (shows how much I know!) is a fitting that appears only on the AVRE tanks that landed on D Day. It is a mounting plate for spare bogie stowage.
As it can clearly be seen on the disputed photo it would appear the matter has been sorted. It is a Churchill AVRE and not a gun tank.

Note that I also got the front & rear of the tank mixed up. The turret was blown off and came to rest upside down and facing the rear. The front of the tank is facing the church tower.


http://www.network54.com/Forum/47208/th ... iew+Thread


And

http://ww2talk.com/index.php?threads/es ... ost-736984

MitSNormandy
Member
Posts: 2
Joined: 18 Nov 2016, 19:19
Location: Hyde, UK

Re: Churchill tanks at Estry Aug 6th 1944

#9

Post by MitSNormandy » 21 Dec 2016, 22:38

Hi Michael,
Thanks for the extra detail... and I agree that it does seem to be unlikely to get the same effect from different tanks being hit... and, of course, the 79th AD is a bit of a buggerance :lol:

But, the bit that still confuses me is the buildings that the tanks are near as they look completely different given how close the tanks are to them...

I can definitely (or as definitely as possible) confirm that it is the village of Estry as last year, the owner of the B&B that we stay at just outside of the village was given electronic copies of some of these (but not the "disputed" one) by, I think, the person who took them (or at least a relative thereof)

So, now comes the difficult part... how to raise with the veteran who gave me the original photo of the "disputed" Churchill, together with it's "provenance" that he appears to have made a genuine error...

But, thanks, again, for the additional information... we could well be running this battle at a show in the New Year with our wargaming club!

Cheers
Colin

Michael Kenny
Member
Posts: 8272
Joined: 07 May 2002, 20:40
Location: Teesside

Re: Churchill tanks at Estry Aug 6th 1944

#10

Post by Michael Kenny » 21 Dec 2016, 23:19

MitSNormandy wrote:Hi Michael,

I can definitely (or as definitely as possible) confirm that it is the village of Estry as last year, the owner of the B&B that we stay at just outside of the village was given electronic copies of some of these (but not the "disputed" one) by, I think, the person who took them (or at least a relative thereof)
The first use of the pic with the church tower visible (that I know of) is page 373 in Heimdal's La Hohenstaufen book from 1984 credited to Michel Leteinturier. I do not know if it is a translation of an earlier German version. The caption states it is a 79 AD Churchill but as I only recently made the connection between the pics I did not remember it. The curse of too many sources and too little memory!

This is the IGN air view site. by zooming in on the area you want and clicking the dates at top right you can see what is available. All are downloadable for free.

https://remonterletemps.ign.fr/telechar ... ns.2653521

Michael Kenny
Member
Posts: 8272
Joined: 07 May 2002, 20:40
Location: Teesside

Re: Churchill tanks at Estry Aug 6th 1944

#11

Post by Michael Kenny » 23 Dec 2016, 18:00

Managed to find a clear pic of bogies stowed . Note this fitting is a bit more to the rear of the tank (and may be on the engine deck) than the example shown on the blown up Churchill.
Churchill AVRE spare bogie stowage.jpg

Tom from Cornwall
Member
Posts: 3240
Joined: 01 May 2006, 20:52
Location: UK

Re: Churchill tanks at Estry Aug 6th 1944

#12

Post by Tom from Cornwall » 29 Dec 2016, 19:37

Hi, I went to Kew today and found this:

Source: WO171/1806 – 77 Assault Squadron RE

7 August 1944
0330 Orders for 3 Tp to drop fascines and join 227 Bde 15 (S) Div at 7543.
0700 Tp arrived at and harboured 753428 near MONTCHARIVEL. OC and Tp Ldr reported to comd 227 Bde, who required AVRE for attack on ESTRY 7437.
1000 Tp Ldr Lt. DAVID went fwd with Brigadier to visit bns. Later reported killed by shellfire when on recce.
pm Change to comd 44 Bde for attack 8 Aug. Tpr Rutherford, dvr of scout car att from 1 LOTHIAN, wounded slightly in foot.
1330 Div conference on attack at HQ 227 Bde, followed by Bde Conf HQ 44 Bde.
2200 Lt. J. CHARLTON arrived to take over comd 3 Tp during conference.
2230 Tp moved to join tail of Sqn G Gds West of MONTCHARIVEL.
2330 Column moved to lying up area SOUTH of MONTCHAMP.

Night 7/8 August 1944
Div RE clear approach routes EAST and WEST of CL.

8 August 1944
0730 Fd Coy Comd showed Tp Ldr routes cleared.
0800 OC and offrs to co-ord conference SOUTH of MONTCHARIVEL.
0930 OC and offrs recced final approaches to tgt, the church in ESTRY. Gaps across sunken rd thro which covering armour will deploy found inadequate. Fd Coy comd agreed to improve before H hr (1200 hrs).
1100 Attack formed up for left had approach – armd sqn – tp AVRE – tp armd sqn – bn inf. Moved off 1120 hrs.
1200 Considerable confusion short sunken rd – tps GREN GDS got bit stuck, disorg and out of touch on R/T. Did not deploy sufficiently far fwd to give adequate sp.
1245 AVRE advance to church and some fired petards, all fired besa. Badly shot up. AVRE Lt. JONES, SGT FREER KO. AVRE Sgt. MUNCASTER missing with complete crew. AVRE Lt. CHARLTON badly damaged, and AVRE Sgt SMITH had turret jammed. AVRE Sgt. MORRIS returned unscathed. Three AVRE returned. Seven OR missing, seven wounded, incl missing Sgt MUNCASTER and crew, Spr GERELLI, wounded Sgt HUSBANDS, Sgt FREER.
1700 Remnant tp returned to sqn HQ harbour.

[...]

14 August 1944
OC and Lt CHARLTON visited ESTRY now evac by enemy. Found missing tk brewed up and five of missing crew, who had been shot after baling out. Sgt MUNCASTER, L/Cpl MARTIN, Spt BOND, Spr NOYCE, Spr MOSS. Spr WHITNEY still missing, hoped wounded or POW. Arranged burial pty. Padre 3 SG officiated.

The writing is a bit spidery but I think I got most of the names correct.

Regards

Tom

User avatar
ClintHardware
Member
Posts: 819
Joined: 21 Jan 2011, 13:17

Re: Churchill tanks at Estry Aug 6th 1944

#13

Post by ClintHardware » 28 Feb 2017, 20:22

Great topic and posts. Thank you all for sharing.

I will be going to Kew next week if there is anything you want PM me.
Imperialism and Re-Armament NOW !

Michael Kenny
Member
Posts: 8272
Joined: 07 May 2002, 20:40
Location: Teesside

Re: Churchill tanks at Estry Aug 6th 1944

#14

Post by Michael Kenny » 28 Feb 2017, 22:05

Another clear view of spare bogie stowage on the rear track guard of a Churchill AVRE
Churchill spare wheels attached.jpg

davidw76
New member
Posts: 1
Joined: 02 Jan 2024, 15:16
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Churchill tanks at Estry Aug 6th 1944

#15

Post by davidw76 » 02 Jan 2024, 15:31

I realise that this reply is some years after the post by Tom on the 14th August incident but I thought I would provide some extra info for completeness. Spr Whitney (age 21years) was the Tank driver and was able to exit by the side unlike the others who were killed I understand by having to exit at the top. He was wounded in the left arm and subsequently captured and eventually taken to Paris where his arm was amputated. He was lately repatriated by the Americans. He enjoyed a full family life until he died aged 72 years. He was my father.

Post Reply

Return to “The Ron Klages Panzer & other vehicles Section”