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Were Polish Red Army soldiers traitors?

Discussions on all aspects of Poland during the Second Polish Republic and the Second World War.
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Were Polish Red Army soldiers traitors?

Postby Davey Boy on 11 Jul 2003 09:57

I don't think so, for a couple of very important reasons.

Firstly, the Polish Army in the east was created with the backing of the Polish Government in Exile.

Secondly, it was the only way many Poles could get back to Poland from Siberia.

Thirdly, it was the only way they could get a chance to fight the Germans.

Also, at the time, it wasn't really clear to many Poles what the Soviets did. I can tell you that no one thought Katyn was a Soviet crime.

And the Poles who were deported to Siberia also had the feeling that the west would certainly reign in any Soviet attempts to take over Poland.

So this is why my grandfather joined the Polish Army in the east. He was in a tank that drove into Berlin and was very proud of that.

No one forced him to fight, and there certainly weren't any NKVD death squads breathing down his back. I can also tell you that he wasn't given any suicide missions or anything like that. Sure, it was a war, and it was hell, but Polish soldiers weren't cannon fodder or anything like that. Not as far as I'm aware anyway.

Of course, the persecution of the Polish Home Army was a tragic affair, but that was a different story altogether.

I don't think anyone can blame the average Polish, or even Russian, Red Army soldier. The blame for that lies with the Commies and with the west, which sold us out to Stalin.
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Postby mars on 11 Jul 2003 14:36

Actually there were 2 Polish army fought shoulder by shoulder with Soviet Red army, the diderence between Soviet and German to Poland at that time was that German was ruinning the Poland and killing millions of Poland citizens, on the other hand Russian of course was not Poland's "sweetheart", but her intention was limit to control Poland, so it was obviously that German was the worst evil, and that was the reason why recruting soldiers was never a problem for these 2 polish armys when they return to their homeland
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Postby VeleV on 12 Jul 2003 04:11

The Polish HOME ARMY was the only real Polish army that existed during WW2. And the sopposed army you mentioned of Poles in the East created by Polish government in Exile was NEVER part of the Red Army - it was a seperate unit under Polish NOT RUSSIAN command...

I suggest reading "Opowiescie Z Tamtych Dni", a tale about a HOME ARMY soldier which clearly writes about how much of traitors were Poles which fought along side Russia. The author also gets into great detail of how many RUSSIANS joined the Polish Home Army because they hated their Soviet leaders...the book is one of the best books concerning the activities of Polish Home Army! It offers great footnotes, maps and photographs.


Why do you think when the Urprising happened in Warsaw the Russians were not wanted and watched how Poles got slaughtered? Polish peopel had respect for German soldiers while Russians raped were dirty and drank like horses (there is tales of this sort floating from almost every Polish grandmother or grandfather I have spoken to which experienced both the Russian invasion as well as the Germans)
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Postby Oleg Grigoryev on 12 Jul 2003 04:38

VeleV wrote:The Polish HOME ARMY was the only real Polish army that existed during WW2. And the sopposed army you mentioned of Poles in the East created by Polish government in Exile was NEVER part of the Red Army - it was a seperate unit under Polish NOT RUSSIAN command...

I suggest reading "Opowiescie Z Tamtych Dni", a tale about a HOME ARMY soldier which clearly writes about how much of traitors were Poles which fought along side Russia. The author also gets into great detail of how many RUSSIANS joined the Polish Home Army because they hated their Soviet leaders...the book is one of the best books concerning the activities of Polish Home Army! It offers great footnotes, maps and photographs.


Why do you think when the Urprising happened in Warsaw the Russians were not wanted and watched how Poles got slaughtered? Polish peopel had respect for German soldiers while Russians raped were dirty and drank like horses (there is tales of this sort floating from almost every Polish grandmother or grandfather I have spoken to which experienced both the Russian invasion as well as the Germans)


And the sopposed army you mentioned of Poles in the East created by Polish government in Exile was NEVER part of the Red Army - it was a seperate unit under Polish NOT RUSSIAN command...
it was created and initailly supplied by USSR.

how much of traitors were Poles which fought along side Russia.
especially them who fought their way into Berlin...

the Russians were not wanted and watched how Poles got slaughtered?
well if they were not wanted it was kind of obvious thing to do was not it - or you suggesting that even though they were not wanted they were supposed to help?

Polish peopel had respect for German soldiers
the fabulous live of Poles under German occupation is common knowlage indeed -they respected each other deeply. The whole uprisng thing was misunderstood by Germans - the poles actully wanted to fight alongside with them agianst the Soviets...
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Postby VeleV on 12 Jul 2003 04:44

Take apart and quote to suite your opinions - maybe you should be a politician? :lol:
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Postby Oleg Grigoryev on 12 Jul 2003 04:54

VeleV wrote:Take apart and quote to suite your opinions - maybe you should be a politician? :lol:
suite my oppinions? who equiped and supplyied Anderses Army when it was formed?
Image

Image them dman traitors at the Victory parade at Moscow...[/img]
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Postby Sokol on 12 Jul 2003 05:03

You have many, many issues with Russians, Velev my friend. Of course, you seem to be indulging in a fair bit of ignorance, saying that the Soviet Union is Russia, and Russia alone, when, in fact, it consisted of 13(?) Republics made up of many ethnicities. It is common knowledge that the rapists and murderers were the REMFs, not the front line Red Army troops.

I just can't get past the number of people who still think that the Soviet Union was just Russia and that all crimes committed by Red Army troops were therefore Russian crimes. RUBBISH! Even in Tsarist Russia, ethnic Russians made up only 45-50% of the population.

Regards,
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Postby VeleV on 12 Jul 2003 05:16

Well I cant have THAT many problems with Russia when I am dating a Moscow born woman for the last few months and when my favorite literature comes from Russia :lol:
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Postby Oleg Grigoryev on 12 Jul 2003 05:56

VeleV wrote:Well I cant have THAT many problems with Russia when I am dating a Moscow born woman for the last few months and when my favorite literature comes from Russia :lol:
gee weez just your regular russophiles aren't ya....
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Postby VeleV on 12 Jul 2003 06:01

Just becuase I am critical of socialism doesn't mean I do not have respect in OTHER areas of Russia :lol:
The woman i could never resist....even though I tried!
Political talks with Russians one on one with a bottle of something either Polish or Russian I also do not mind...and ofcourse the books :)

I think I will be visiting Moscow for my first time in December - half my trip in Poland half in Russia - I do not know what to expect.
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Postby Oleg Grigoryev on 12 Jul 2003 06:05

VeleV wrote:Just becuase I am critical of socialism doesn't mean I do not have respect in OTHER areas of Russia :lol:
The woman i could never resist....even though I tried!
Political talks with Russians one on one with a bottle of something either Polish or Russian I also do not mind...and ofcourse the books :)

I think I will be visiting Moscow for my first time in December - half my trip in Poland half in Russia - I do not know what to expect.
you are not critical of Socialism you are critical of whatever happened between 1917 and 1991 - by definition - which is good approach for propaganda purposes but excessively smart (and I am being very mild here) when it comes to actual history study.
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Postby VeleV on 12 Jul 2003 06:41

Well all the people from my family which died during ww2 died by the hands of the Russians... :(
Maybe that has something to do with it and I do read a lot about Soviet prisons and Polish experiences in them etc etc
But overall there is no hatred for Russians because if there was I sure as hell would not be dating one or having friends that are Russian :lol:
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Postby Oleg Grigoryev on 12 Jul 2003 06:56

well since you like that kind of reading -what was the detah rate amongSoviet POWs in Polish POW camps after the Russo-Polish war.
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Postby Davey Boy on 12 Jul 2003 07:43

oleg wrote:well since you like that kind of reading -what was the detah rate amongSoviet POWs in Polish POW camps after the Russo-Polish war.



Well, about 25,000 Soviet POWs died in Poland. But Russia now claims the figure was over 100,000 - which is not true.


Anyway, Velev, you think Polish people had respect for German soldiers? What the hell are you talking about?

The German occupation was barbaric, and the word respect doesn't come into it.

The initial Soviet occupation was similar, but the post-war situation was very different.
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Postby Andy H on 12 Jul 2003 11:30

Please keep this thread on track

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