The ultimate fortification thread!

Discussions on the fortifications, artillery, & rockets used by the Axis forces.
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stril
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#946

Post by stril » 14 Oct 2005, 23:00

Hello
Thank you for your replies. The pictures are from HKB. I dont think there was a luftwaffe unit at the place before the HKB was there. Ithad beside their main guns 2 X 2cm flak, im sure this is one of them, the other is quite simple, picture added. Ill go for the unterkunft/flakbar with a possible lightshaft.
The other installation with lines in the concrete puzzles me. There are two of them, one at the highest point in the batterie, 50 meters off the leitstand. First i tought of scheinwerfer too, they had a 60 cm and a 150 cm at the place. Now i start wondering, as a 150 cm scheinwerfer does take some space, and those i have seen in open positions usually have a possibility to move 360 degree. The lines in the concrete is in a semicircle behind a concrete foundation, the concrete makes less than 180 degree turn. Other things they had two of, beside the scheinwerfers is 2 X 4,7 cm pak (possible for this positions ?), 2 X s.M.G. and 2 X l.M.G
While im at it i add two more, just to get it comfirmed, this is a position for a Kwk ?
Perhaps stupid questions, but im going to use the pictures in a article, and i want it to be right.
regards
stril

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Erik E
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#947

Post by Erik E » 15 Oct 2005, 00:23

Sounds quite odd to place PAK on the hilltops....
Could there have been something else there before your weapons list was made?
Could the position be rebuilt?

Last photos definately looks like a Rs65 for 5cm KwK..
Was there an ammunitionroom down there?

Erik


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stril
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#948

Post by stril » 15 Oct 2005, 16:51

Hello
Thanks for your reply. I have now got a drawing of a Rs65 and its the same as on the picture.
Sounds quite odd to place PAK on the hilltops....
I wouldnt know, but this must be the best place to ask.. :)
I dont thin this HKb was rebuildt as it was suggested to be put down in 1948, but i have to check it out.
I add another picture of the "unknown" concrete position, perhaps it can be of some help.
regards
stril

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Erik E
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#949

Post by Erik E » 16 Oct 2005, 16:54

Normally no weapons except Flak were placed on hilltops....
The last photo you added looks even stranger, and does not remind me of a weaponplatform at all...

Which HKB is this?

Erik

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stril
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#950

Post by stril » 18 Oct 2005, 20:50

Hello Again
Its from HKB Ramsøy. Its still puzzle me as the every other 5th line are longer than the rest. Seems like it was something for aiming, the lines is possible degrees.
regards
stril

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#951

Post by jopaerya » 21 Oct 2005, 16:39

Hi Stril

Beside the main guns 37/977 H.K.B. Ramsö
1 x 5 cm KwK
2 x 4,7 cm Pak (bettung?)
2 x 2 cm Flak / orther list 1 2 cm Flak
1 x searchlight
2 x Flame trowers

Regards Jos

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stril
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#952

Post by stril » 22 Oct 2005, 19:54

Hello Jos
Thanks for your reply. A list of that batterie says that they had in additon to their main guns( 4 X 8,8cm(r) ),
1 X 5 cm Kwk L42, 2 x 4,7cm pak(f), 1 X 2 cm Kwk 38, 2 X 2 cm flak 38, 1 X 150 cm scheinwerfer, 1 X 60 cm scheinwerfer, they also had 2 X s.M.G. and 2 X l.M.G(norw), 2 X mittl. flammenverfer, and 2 X Masch.Pistole.
I have been told that the scheinwerfers was not in the positions as above. As for now i let it be, the answer comes up sooner or later.
regards
stril

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karltrowitz
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#953

Post by karltrowitz » 29 Oct 2005, 22:09

Hello guys, I just wanted to say that this is still an excellent thread, so keep the info coming. I'll be back in the UK next week, so hopefully ill hunt out a few more pics from Normandy and get them posted. Cheers.

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SES
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Bunker/concrete fundamentals.

#954

Post by SES » 03 Nov 2005, 11:58

Hi,
This could also have been the first post in this thread, but better late that never. Below is a couple of qoutes from the post war report complied by the head of the Fest.Pi.Stab in Denmark. I thought that you might find it helpful with the reference documents and DIN standards mentioned. And if you contemplate some sort of concrete structure in your back yard here is the mixture, that should last "a thousand years" :wink: :

Die taktischen und technischen Grundsätze des ständigen Ausbaues waren in der Heeresdienstvorschrift D 570 »Bestimmungen über den Bau ständiger Befestigungsanlagen« (B.st.B.) niedergelegt. Diese Vorschrift bestand aus etwa 10 Teilen. Sie war auf den Ausbau eines Festungskampffeldes zugeschnitten und wurde daher bei Beginn des Westwallbaues mit Ausnahme der rein technischen Teile (2.B. der Betonierungsanleitung B 570, Teil 6) ausser Kraft gesetzt. Ihre taktischen nunmehr ungültigen Teile wurden bei Beginn des Westwallbaues durch die HDv 69 (»Ständige Front«) ersetzt.

Die allgemeinen Grundsätze der Verteidigung wurden der HDv 3000, 1. Teil (Truppenführung) entnommen. Für alle Beton- und Stahlbetonbauten gelten:

- D 570 (B.st.B.), Teil 6, Betonierungsanleitung,

- Bestimmungen des Deutschen Ausschusses für Eisenbeton,

- die entsprechenden DIN-Vorschriften, insbesondere DIN 1164, 1045,
1047, 1018, 1179, 4029, 1000, 1512, 1074,

- Richtlinien für Ausführung von Betonarbeiten im Meerwasser,

- Richtlinien für Ausführung von Betonarbeiten im Moor,

- vorläufige Anweisung für die Abdichtung von Ingenieurbauten (AIB),

- Prüfung von Betonzuschlagstoffen auf Gehalt an unerwünschten Beimengungen
(DVM 2100),

- Merkblatt für das Betonieren bei niedrigen Temperaturen.

Für 1 cbm Fertigbeton werden benötigt:
Normaler Portlandzement 400 kg
Sand (Korngrösse 0 bis 3 mm = 37%) 670 kg
Kies (Korngrösse 3 bis 7 mm = 17%) 310 kg
Kies (Korngrösse 7 bis 15 mm = 20%) 370 kg
Splitt (Korngrösse 15 bis 30 mm = 26%) 460 kg
Die Zuschlaggewichte sind Trockengewichte. Mit Hilfe der Darrprobe werden auf der Baustelle die den gleichen Mengen entsprechenden Feuchtgewichte ermittelt und der Mischung zugrunde gelegt.

Der Wasserzusatz: Es wird plastischer Beton mit einem Wasserzementfaktor W/Z =0,50 bis 0,6 (entspricht etwa 7 bis 10% der Trockenbestandteile im Gewicht) verwendet.
Das Ausbreitmass ist gleich oder grösser als 50 Cm. Es ist kein Masstab für den Wassergehalt, nur für die Steife des Betons.

Für die Arbeitssohle wird ein magerer Beton verwendet. Nach 20 Tagen wird eine Mindestdruckfestigkeit von 450 kg/cm2 gefordert. Bauwerke bis etwa 1000 cbm Stahlbetoninhalt werden in einem durchgehenden Schüttgang betoniert. Grössere Bauwerke können zum Ausgleich der Wärmespannungen in mehreren Arbeitsgängen betoniert werden. Versetzte Fugen sind dann erforderlich.


bregds
SES

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stril
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#955

Post by stril » 05 Nov 2005, 16:37

Hello
Anyone having a idea of the function of the tower/etc. in the picture ?
regards
stril

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SES
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#956

Post by SES » 05 Nov 2005, 16:47

Hi stril,
A well educated guess is that the tower on the left is a FLUWA the one on the right is a KÜWA. The WM tended to treat their personnel a bit more kindly and they did not have to listen, so the KÜWAs could be equipped with windows. The WL personnel had to look AND listen, so they had to suffer from the elements, hence the open platform. I cannot see anything interesting in the way of known electronic equipment.
bregds
SES
Last edited by SES on 06 Nov 2005, 18:05, edited 1 time in total.

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stril
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#957

Post by stril » 06 Nov 2005, 17:43

Hello
Thank you for your reply. I add another picture from same site, seems like its their radio "hut".
Ill note Kuwa/Fluwa on these pictures.
regards
stril

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SES
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#958

Post by SES » 06 Nov 2005, 17:58

Now THAT is a Regelbau FLUWA :wink: The radio antennas is from the HF-radio used to pass the reports to the FLUKO. It is not that easy to run telephone lines in Norway especially to the small islands, so the Germans used every means of communication - excluding carrier pidgeons - but including Lichtsprecht Gerät, to pass sightings from the FLUWAs.
The 2 attachments depicts a FLUWA on Samsø, which still stood 10 years ago. No one knew of it's significance and I only received the pictures attached, after it had been turned into fire wood.

Flie 1 is the hut, flie 2 is the inscription inside.
bregds
SES
Attachments
Samsoe 2.jpg
Samsoe 2.jpg (54.12 KiB) Viewed 2308 times
Samsoe 1.jpg
Samsoe 1.jpg (66.1 KiB) Viewed 2308 times
Last edited by SES on 07 Nov 2005, 10:36, edited 1 time in total.

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stril
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#959

Post by stril » 07 Nov 2005, 10:08

Hello
Interesting pictures, but to bad teh hut is gone.
Ill add another picture from the site mentioned above. You can see the antenna set up, a triangle with another pole in one of the ends.
regards
stril

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SES
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#960

Post by SES » 07 Nov 2005, 10:43

Thank you stril,
Also an interesting picture. I am not surprised that also these huts were standardized.
bregds
SES

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