This is an apolitical forum for discussions on the Axis nations and related topics hosted by Marcus Wendel's Axis History Factbook in cooperation with Michael Miller's Axis Biographical Research, Christoph Awender's WW2 day by dayand Christian Ankerstjerne’s Panzerworld.
Tosun Saral wrote:Dear Moderator Andy. Turks had their defence plans so called "Cakmak Hatti" the Cakmak Line. Cakmak is the family name of Grand Field Marschall Mustafa Fevzi Cakmak. Fieldmarchall builded this defence line in European part of Turkey. The line beginned from Edirne and ended at the gates of Istanbul. Catalca was the centre of the line. Catalca is a natural defence line. Catalca was always a natured defence line for Byzans also. In Balkan Wars the Turkish army could hold on Catalca line and defeated the Bulgarians and gained Edirne back. There are many bunkers, MG heims, artillary positions still today. For 1940's this defence line was better then Maginot defence line. With incabable German Generals (We checked their capacity during WW1) Catalca Defence line could be a hell to Germans. God saved them.
Tosun Saral wrote:Cavusch the Serge I wellcome you in this forum. We will have very good contribution by you.
Dear Nuyt, AS-FA which cavusch mentioned is not in Ankara. State Military Weapons fabric is situated in Kirikkale. The General Directorete is in Ankara. It is called MKEK Makina ve Kimya Endustrisi Kurumu
http://22.214.171.124/search?q=cache:CvF ... =clnk&cd=2
nuyt wrote:Chavusch thank you very much for that concrete information. So As-Fa Ankara was producing/assembling rifles. Very interesting. Do you know if they produced more weaponry/munition?
Especially the Enfeuser story is great. Is there anywhere I could read more about this?
And do you perhaps know anything about this (Vickers 18pdr based) 10.5cm HIH howitzer, 32 delivered in 1930?
http://www.network54.com/Forum/330333/m ... HIH+gun%21
Population: 17 100 000 (in 1938) Borders with (during WWII) Bulgaria, Greece, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Soviet Union. It also has access to the Black and Mediterranean Seas.
Area: 767 100 squared kilometers.
Capital City: Ankara
Overview: Shortly before WWII, the internal and external policies of the Turkish government began to diverge from the progressive course undertaken by K. Ataturk; subsequently to Ataturk's death in 1938, under combined pressure from reactionary domestic elements and from imperialistic powers, Turkey halted the realization of social reforms while in foreign policy it adopted an anti-Soviet stance. After the eruption of World War II, it announced a declaration of neutrality, and on 19/10/1939 it signed a mutual assistance pact with Great Britain and France. Influenced by the early war triumphs of Nazi Germany, Turkey decided to initiate cooperation with the Axis; on 18/06/1941 it signed a pact of friendship with Third Reich. Subsequently, it provided considerable quantities of strategic raw materials to support the German war effort, including 30% of all chrome needed by Germany. Western powers fruitlessly attempted to persuade Turkey to abandon this Axis-friendly neutrality and to join the Allied cause. Not until 02/08/1944, did Turkey sever diplomatic relations with Nazi Germany; it did the same with Japan on 03/01/1945. On 01/03/1945 it formally declared war on both of these countries, althought, it never fought against them. Turkey is a co-founding member of U.N.
Armed Forces: In 1938 the Turkish standing army had 20 000 officers and 174 000 men. Military service lasted for three years. In 1939 the Turkish army was administrationally divided into three army inspectorates, nine corps, and one military governorship; the country's armed forces were composed of 20 infantry divisions, three brigades of mountain troops, one fortress brigade, and five cavalry divisions (including two reserve cavalry divisions) - altogether 132 regiments (60 infantry, six mountain troops, 21 cavalry, eight reserve cavalry, 20 field artillery, 10 heavy artillery, and seven fortress artillery). In early 1941 Turkey established 17 corps headquarters, 43 divisions and three independent infantry brigades, two divisions and one independent cavalry brigade, as well as two mechanized divisions. The armed forces were poorly equipped; weapons shipments from Germany, Great Britain, and U.S. did little to improve that condition. Just before the onset of hostilities the Turkish navy underwent a program of expansion and modernization; two submarines were ordered for construction in Germany, two submarines and four destroyers were ordered for construction in U.K. Lesser vessels were also constructed in home shipyards. After Germany delivered one submarine in 1939, the Turkish navy contained 19 naval vessels and they included one armoured ship, one line cruiser, two light cruisers, two torpedo-boats, four destroyers, five submarines, and four other lesser ships (most vessels were obsolete); with a total displacement of 55 775 tonnes (the number of naval personnel stood at 9 200). The real combat value of the navy was insignificant. By the end of WWII, the navy had one battle cruiser, two cruisers, two gunboats, three minesweepers, eight destroyers, 12 submarines, three motor torpedo boats, five minelayers, a surveying vessel, a depot ship, a fleet tug, a collier, and an oiler. By 1940 the Turkish air force was composed of four air regiments (each regiment contained six air companies), and had in possession a total of 370 aircraft (it had 8 500 personnel). Thanks to British and French shipments one more air regiment, along with five independent air wings, was formed in 1941. Shipments of military equipment from Germany replaced the shipments from Allied countries in the same year. Close to the end of the war, two air force divisions were organized; they together contained 15 air wings (or 30 flights).
Deterance wrote:waffen_für _alle wrote:
In my opinion,the Turkish states under the control of the soviets would probably see Turkey as their liberators.This was how they saw the Germans.That is why many of them fought against soviets after their captivity by Germans.The Turkic states would probably revolt or sabotage the Red Army.Especially Azerbaijan would probably attack the armenians from the back.That is why Turkish involvement could be succesful.
Good point, undoubtably Turkish intervention would raise the possibility of mass defections from Azeris, Turkmen etc. These defections could push the situation to the point of collapse. I dont think the Azeris as a people wuld have attacked Armenia though, instead they would have conducted sabotage, reservists would have not mobilized and just waited for the liberation.
But I dont think Turkey was strong enough to launch attacks into USSR, Syria, and towards the Suez at the same time. This would allow the allies to use their "ace in a hole".
The U.S build up to Torch and D-Day was deliberate and slow in an effort to save U.S. lives and let Soviets Nazis destroy each other. But... the US was not going to allow an Axis victory. Knocking the Soviets out of the war would mean an Axis victory. U.S. would have intervened in Iraq with all available Divisions in February 1942 to stop a Soviet Collapse even if intervention delayed Pacific response and led to high U.S. casulties.
Tosun Saral wrote:Dear Paul, Ismet Inonu was a democratic and civilized man. He would never do with a dictator who ruined his own land and killed millions of Germans and others. Turks collaborated with Germans in the WW1 knowing that they are on the side of a nation rich in culture. Turks wanted to gain the lost territories with this comradeship. But since 1933 every body knew that Hitlers Nazi party was barbaric and brutal. Turkey hosted since 1933 many German intellectuals Jews or Christians who escaped from Nazi terror. These facts were well known in Turkey. If the Germans invaded the UK at the top of their power, Turks would have never collaborated with the Nazi regime. They would fight againts them for democracy and humanity.
Those who rule with terror lost at the end.
brodeur wrote:Tosun Saral wrote:Dear Paul, Ismet Inonu was a democratic and civilized man. He would never do with a dictator who ruined his own land and killed millions of Germans and others. Turks collaborated with Germans in the WW1 knowing that they are on the side of a nation rich in culture. Turks wanted to gain the lost territories with this comradeship. But since 1933 every body knew that Hitlers Nazi party was barbaric and brutal. Turkey hosted since 1933 many German intellectuals Jews or Christians who escaped from Nazi terror. These facts were well known in Turkey. If the Germans invaded the UK at the top of their power, Turks would have never collaborated with the Nazi regime. They would fight againts them for democracy and humanity.
Those who rule with terror lost at the end.
I am not so sure about that, I hear a story o a boy named Hitler in turkey in the late 80-is. “He was named after a great man”.
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