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The defence of Narva-the final countdown of army group NORTH

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The defence of Narva-the final countdown of army group NORTH

Postby pennywise on 31 Jul 2003 00:15

Do u think that the battle for Narva is the real end of army group "North"?
At first - the Leningrad's siege(3 years),then the defence of Narva(3 months),then the battle for Courland peninsula...
The great army North, which soldiers fought bravely and long was fall...
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Postby Benoit Douville on 31 Jul 2003 03:27

You have a valid point because the Battle of Narva in the Baltic was important because the soldiers of Wiking Division, I guess that's what you are talking about... were defending that land with all the courage they had but after that, even if they fought very bravely until the end of the War it was over. Operation Bagration by the Red Army was succesfull.

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Postby pennywise on 31 Jul 2003 05:25

Oui, Benoit, but Hitler didn't gave a permission to VIKING to retreat, and they , like a 100%germans (but there was non-german soldiers) fought against the red army, defending the peninsula(why?) that wasn't a strategic land......
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Postby Superfinnish on 31 Jul 2003 06:48

Was in it the Estonians(1944?) who tried to fhight the Russians at Narva?

//Martin
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Postby Polynike on 31 Jul 2003 23:41

Isnt the battle of Narva called the battle of the european SS due to the number of foreign legions that fought there. anybody got any links to sites or pics about the battle?
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Postby Benoit Douville on 01 Aug 2003 00:17

Yep, it was a strategic land because the majority of the soldiers of the Panzer Grenadier Nordland Division who fought that Battle from February to August 1944 in Narva, Estonia were from European SS Volonteers and a lot of them from the Baltic State, that land was important for them.

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Last edited by Benoit Douville on 29 Jan 2006 18:06, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Hans N on 01 Aug 2003 17:44

They protected their Iron-core transports from Sweden, that Germany was relying on to produce its weapons from. One of the Russian goals was to take the port in Libau that the "Germanische" volunteers did all they could do to stop.

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Narva

Postby Peeter on 02 Sep 2003 17:19

At first, there was not the Wiking division operating at Narva, but Nordland, 20.SS (Estonian) and of course some German units, so very international (soldiers from Estonia, Gemany, Norway, Holland, Denmark and Sweden).
For soldiers the question was definitely not the swedish iron- there was a border between Europe and Russia, that`s why they fought so desperately. For German headquarters, of course the question was to keep the Baltic Sea.
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Postby Gille on 03 Sep 2003 07:03

Hi I would like to recommend Wilhem tiekes book;Tragedy of the Faithful as a very informative and good read on this subject.Many different units and nationalities fought together showing much bravery in a hopeless battle against overwhelming odds.Even Estonian woman manned the mortars.Individuals such as Oberleutnant Otto Carius carried out feats of incredible daring.Belgium troops fought here too.
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Postby Andy H on 03 Sep 2003 12:50

The battles fought in the Courland were a waste of men & material that Germany needed elsewhere.

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Postby Hans N on 03 Sep 2003 14:08

If they hadn´t stand their ground, the Russians had entered Germany much earlier!
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Postby Andy H on 03 Sep 2003 17:40

If they hadn´t stand their ground, the Russians had entered Germany much earlier!


If this is in relation to Courland I think your mistaken.

The usual arguement is that it tied down Russian forces-Well yes that is true but what quantative effect did this have on Russia's ability to enter Germany, argueably none. It was more a case of Russian tunnel vision if you like that they would destroy this German force on it's land (Post'39)

The Russians might as awell have left just a minor force to defend the perimeter, because what could the German forces do from there?. They could attack but where to and for what goal that could be held against overwhelming force that Russia could bring to bear.

Better that the troops were along the Oder etc. Yes they wouldn't have staved of the deafeat but Germany would have kept going a bit longer.

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Postby Hans N on 03 Sep 2003 19:33

Better that the troops were along the Oder etc. Yes they wouldn't have staved of the deafeat but Germany would have kept going a bit longer.


Not so shure about that, coz every feet the Russians gained the harder they fought! The German forces fought for their lifes and familys! The beleaves in The Third Reich was thinning out for every day that passed.
Germany was counting on that the western allies would continue the war but against the Russians!
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Postby Benoit Douville on 04 Sep 2003 02:12

I agree, The Red Army suffered for almost every yard they gained in Kurland and I don't think it was a waste of men and material for Germany. The combat troops were more fanatic than in 1941 when they invaded the Soviet Union!

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Last edited by Benoit Douville on 29 Jan 2006 04:33, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: The Defense of Narva & Final Countdown of A.G.N.

Postby Robert Rojas on 04 Sep 2003 05:41

Greetings to both citizen Polynike and the community as a whole. In regards to your inquiry of Thursday - July 31, 2003 - 11:41am, old Uncle Bob would like to recommend the following work of literature which, in part, covers the events gravitating on the defensive action or actions in and around Narva. The work in question is entitled as RETREAT FROM LENINGRAD: Army Group North 1944/1945. The author is Steven H. Newton and the publisher is Schiffer Publishing Limited of Atglen, Pennsylvania. The publishing year is 1995. This literary work delves into the subject with a respectable degree of specificity. I believe you will find Steven H. Newton's effort of relevance to your particular interests. ENJOY! In anycase, I would like to bid you a wonderful day at the Pillars of Hercules.

Best Regards,
Uncle Bob :)
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