Conditions at KL Hohstein 1933-1935
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David Thompson
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Conditions at KL Hohstein 1933-1935
These are a series of documents regarding conditions at Hohstein concentration camp (Konzentrationslager - KL) in 1933-1935. They are taken from volume 3 of the series Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression, a collection of US and UK exhibits at the International Military Tribunal (IMT) proceedings at Nuernberg, and published by the US Government Printing office in 1946. The page numbers appear in the jpeg captions:
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David Thompson
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David Thompson
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- Posts: 23724
- Joined: 20 Jul 2002, 20:52
- Location: USA
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David Thompson
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- Posts: 23724
- Joined: 20 Jul 2002, 20:52
- Location: USA
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David Thompson
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michael mills
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David,
Once again you have done the members of the forum a service by bringing some very significant but little-known documentary material to our attention.
The documents concerning the investigation of the mistreatment of prisoners at an ad-hoc concentration camp by their SA guards seem to me to be very significant for two reasons:
1. They show that the tendency of camp guards to abuse their positions of power to inflict mistreatment on the prisoners on their own initiative, ie without having ordered to do so, and tendency for which the camps later became notorious, was established at a very early stage, at the very beginning of the concentration camp system.
2. They show that the German Government, even senior National Socialists like the Minister for Justice, Gürtner, did not approve of such irregular actions by the camp guards, regarded them as against the law, and prosecuted them.
The reasons given for the prosecution are quite telling; they draw a distinction between acts of violence perpetrated for political reasons, ie because a camp guard felt driven to punish a prisoner for something that the prisoner, or the political party he belonged to, had done, and those perpetrated out of a personal sadistic desire to inflict harm. In the former case, the violent act was considered justified, even if irregular, while in the latter case it was considered unworthy of a National Socialist and deserving of punishment.
That distinction was one that Himmler upheld throughout the war. For him, the "ideal" SS-man was one who would kill unhesitatingly when ordered to do so, but did not enjoy it. He was always concerned to prevent the development of blood-lust and sadism among his men.
I remember reading about a case in 1941, where an SS-man was brought to trial for participating at his own initiative in a mass-shooting without having been ordered to or asked to volunteer. The charge was one of indiscipline and exceeding his orders.
The instructions issued by Himmler in relation to the above case are preserved. He drew the same distinction as that made by Minister of Justice Gürtner in relation to the charges brought against the SA guards in 1935. He ordered that if it could be shown that the SS-man had participated in the mass-shooting contrary to orders for political reasons, eg out of a hatred for Bolshevism, then he should not be tried; if however, it was shown that he had acted out of a personal desire to kill, and had used the mass-shooting as an opportunity to satisfy that desire, then he should be prosecuted.
Of course, Himmler's "ideal" of the SS-man who could overcome his natural repugnance toward bloodshed in order to kill as a duty to the German people turned out to be unrealistic. Once mass-killing started, it was the men who enjoyed it who came to the fore and were able to go on doing it, and it was easier to leave the killing to such men, thus sparing those who were more normal.
I recall that in late 1944 some members of the Auschwitz camp staff, including the head of the camp Gestapo Maximilian Grabner, were prosecuted by the SS judiciary for committing unauthorised killings, ie those they had committed on their own initiative, without specific orders.
Once again you have done the members of the forum a service by bringing some very significant but little-known documentary material to our attention.
The documents concerning the investigation of the mistreatment of prisoners at an ad-hoc concentration camp by their SA guards seem to me to be very significant for two reasons:
1. They show that the tendency of camp guards to abuse their positions of power to inflict mistreatment on the prisoners on their own initiative, ie without having ordered to do so, and tendency for which the camps later became notorious, was established at a very early stage, at the very beginning of the concentration camp system.
2. They show that the German Government, even senior National Socialists like the Minister for Justice, Gürtner, did not approve of such irregular actions by the camp guards, regarded them as against the law, and prosecuted them.
The reasons given for the prosecution are quite telling; they draw a distinction between acts of violence perpetrated for political reasons, ie because a camp guard felt driven to punish a prisoner for something that the prisoner, or the political party he belonged to, had done, and those perpetrated out of a personal sadistic desire to inflict harm. In the former case, the violent act was considered justified, even if irregular, while in the latter case it was considered unworthy of a National Socialist and deserving of punishment.
That distinction was one that Himmler upheld throughout the war. For him, the "ideal" SS-man was one who would kill unhesitatingly when ordered to do so, but did not enjoy it. He was always concerned to prevent the development of blood-lust and sadism among his men.
I remember reading about a case in 1941, where an SS-man was brought to trial for participating at his own initiative in a mass-shooting without having been ordered to or asked to volunteer. The charge was one of indiscipline and exceeding his orders.
The instructions issued by Himmler in relation to the above case are preserved. He drew the same distinction as that made by Minister of Justice Gürtner in relation to the charges brought against the SA guards in 1935. He ordered that if it could be shown that the SS-man had participated in the mass-shooting contrary to orders for political reasons, eg out of a hatred for Bolshevism, then he should not be tried; if however, it was shown that he had acted out of a personal desire to kill, and had used the mass-shooting as an opportunity to satisfy that desire, then he should be prosecuted.
Of course, Himmler's "ideal" of the SS-man who could overcome his natural repugnance toward bloodshed in order to kill as a duty to the German people turned out to be unrealistic. Once mass-killing started, it was the men who enjoyed it who came to the fore and were able to go on doing it, and it was easier to leave the killing to such men, thus sparing those who were more normal.
I recall that in late 1944 some members of the Auschwitz camp staff, including the head of the camp Gestapo Maximilian Grabner, were prosecuted by the SS judiciary for committing unauthorised killings, ie those they had committed on their own initiative, without specific orders.
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David Thompson
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Michael -- Thanks for the commentary, which makes some well-taken points. I'm glad you enjoyed the documents -- I never know when I post primary source material whether anyone will read it, or even care.
You spoke of:
Several of the documents in this case, including the verdict and a letter of instruction distinguishing between acts committed for political reasons from those committed for personal reasons, are repoduced in ed. Klee, Ernst, Willi Dressen and Volker Riess, The Good Old Days: The Holocaust as Seen by Its Perpetrators and Bystanders, The Free Press, New York: 1991, pp. 195-207. Here is the letter of instruction from that case, which appears at p. 205 of the book:
You spoke of:
There is a similar case which involved SS-Untersturmfuehrer Max Taeubner, convicted 24 May 1943 by an SS and Police court of ordering "wild" executions of Ukrainian Jews in 1941-1942 while serving in the Kommandostab RF-SS. The SS and police court sentenced Taeubner to 10 years imprisonment, expelled him from the SS and declared him unfit for service. However, Taeubner was pardoned by Himmler 16 Jan 1945."a case in 1941, where an SS-man was brought to trial for participating at his own initiative in a mass-shooting without having been ordered to or asked to volunteer. The charge was one of indiscipline and exceeding his orders."
Several of the documents in this case, including the verdict and a letter of instruction distinguishing between acts committed for political reasons from those committed for personal reasons, are repoduced in ed. Klee, Ernst, Willi Dressen and Volker Riess, The Good Old Days: The Holocaust as Seen by Its Perpetrators and Bystanders, The Free Press, New York: 1991, pp. 195-207. Here is the letter of instruction from that case, which appears at p. 205 of the book:
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To David, Michael, and al the other forum investigators:
People DO read the posts.
In my case, most of the times I do not place comments, because I am learning, keep up the good work, don let the lack of response discourage your efforts.
Thanks to you all, again, for the effort. We are all here to learn something.
Xavier
the link scrounger
People DO read the posts.
In my case, most of the times I do not place comments, because I am learning, keep up the good work, don let the lack of response discourage your efforts.
Thanks to you all, again, for the effort. We are all here to learn something.
Xavier
the link scrounger
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David Thompson
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If i can permit a personal note,
severals and sadly longs was the lists ,in any years , of abuse or "preminents" positions from "boss" of the "day", or of the "year"..but in any case in places where a minute can be long more that one life.
I dont know if im will able to find what i found last week, but maybe someone involved in the political "moves" of the present days, can make a comparation with the time where was involved the facts in topic.
If i remember well, in my poor opinion, i read into the lines of the poor notes that i was able to find, a correlation between the facts and the political situation of the time in the subject.
A big winner votation was shortly time before occurred and obviously the public opinion necessery...and so on...
hoping that nobody can thing that i agree with the fact....
sorry for the poor notes
Luca
NB = Ps delete from myself.
severals and sadly longs was the lists ,in any years , of abuse or "preminents" positions from "boss" of the "day", or of the "year"..but in any case in places where a minute can be long more that one life.
I dont know if im will able to find what i found last week, but maybe someone involved in the political "moves" of the present days, can make a comparation with the time where was involved the facts in topic.
If i remember well, in my poor opinion, i read into the lines of the poor notes that i was able to find, a correlation between the facts and the political situation of the time in the subject.
A big winner votation was shortly time before occurred and obviously the public opinion necessery...and so on...
hoping that nobody can thing that i agree with the fact....
sorry for the poor notes
Luca
NB = Ps delete from myself.
Maybe can be on topic....
....."
19 Dec. 45
" ... the prisoner was laid across the counter in the usual manner, held fast by the head and arms, and then beaten for a considerable time by the SA men with whips and other articles. Along with these, Vogel himself took part in the beating for a time, and after this mistreatment slapped him again, so that the prisoner appeared green and blue in the face. The prisoner is the tinsmith Hans Kühitz, who bore the nickname 'Johnny.' Upon his departure, Vogel gave the head of the supply room, Truppführer Meier from 5 to 6 Reichsmark with the stated reason that the SA men 'had sweated so.' The money was then distributed by Meier to those SA comrades who had taken part in the mistreatment."
Another activity of the SA during the days just following the Nazi seizure of power was to act as auxiliary police. This is shown in Document 3252-PS, Exhibit Number USA-424. This publication is a book written about Hermann Göring.
THE PRESIDENT: Colonel Storey, is that a document which shows on its face that the man was punished for this conduct?
COL. STOREY: I think it does; yes, Sir. I think it does.
THE PRESIDENT: I think that fact ought to be stated.
COL. STOREY: I believe it is stated, Sir. You see in the beginning it says that the prosecuting authority in Dresden had indicted Vogel on account of bodily injury, and I thought it stated that he had been punished.
THE PRESIDENT: The document does appear to state it, but I think you ought to state it in court. The document ends up with — Paragraph 3.
COL. STOREY: It does state that he was punished. The purpose of introducing it was to show what actually took place.
......"
and after the court change topic...
Luca
....."
19 Dec. 45
" ... the prisoner was laid across the counter in the usual manner, held fast by the head and arms, and then beaten for a considerable time by the SA men with whips and other articles. Along with these, Vogel himself took part in the beating for a time, and after this mistreatment slapped him again, so that the prisoner appeared green and blue in the face. The prisoner is the tinsmith Hans Kühitz, who bore the nickname 'Johnny.' Upon his departure, Vogel gave the head of the supply room, Truppführer Meier from 5 to 6 Reichsmark with the stated reason that the SA men 'had sweated so.' The money was then distributed by Meier to those SA comrades who had taken part in the mistreatment."
Another activity of the SA during the days just following the Nazi seizure of power was to act as auxiliary police. This is shown in Document 3252-PS, Exhibit Number USA-424. This publication is a book written about Hermann Göring.
THE PRESIDENT: Colonel Storey, is that a document which shows on its face that the man was punished for this conduct?
COL. STOREY: I think it does; yes, Sir. I think it does.
THE PRESIDENT: I think that fact ought to be stated.
COL. STOREY: I believe it is stated, Sir. You see in the beginning it says that the prosecuting authority in Dresden had indicted Vogel on account of bodily injury, and I thought it stated that he had been punished.
THE PRESIDENT: The document does appear to state it, but I think you ought to state it in court. The document ends up with — Paragraph 3.
COL. STOREY: It does state that he was punished. The purpose of introducing it was to show what actually took place.
......"
and after the court change topic...
Luca
In Jugendburg Hohnstein, south-east of Dresden in Land Sachsen, KZ-Hohnstein was opened in march 1933. It would develop into one of the worst of all the early KZs.
KZ-Hohnstein existed until 15 August 1934, when about 5.600 prisoners in total had passed through the camp. The bodies of 140 dead were discovered when the camp was closed, which was a very high death rate within these first camps. Among the guards were also SA men who previously had been prisoners in penitentiaries, which meant they where hardened criminals. The treatment of the internees in this KZ was terrible.
Those first arrested by the SA-Sturmes 5/100 arrived in KZ-Hohnstein on 14 march 1933, and by the end of this month the camp size was 430 inmates. Later the number increased to about 600 in August, and at most nearly to 1.000. Approximately 100 women passed through this camp,too. Their main job was doing the laudry for the male prisoners. Among those interned in this KZ were also 400 youth. In November 1933 about 250 prisoners from KZ-Sachsenburg arrived in KZ-Hohnstein.
The camp Commandant from the beginning was SA-Sturmbannfuhrer Rudolf Jahnichen, who led an administration and a guard of about 90 people.On 30 june 1934 men from the SS-Sonderkommando Dresden took over the command in KZ-Hohnstein. This was a consequence of the Rohm-Affair throughout Germany on this day. From then on SS-Sturmfuhrer Karl Koch was commandant. This lasted until the camp was closed only two weeks later, when the remaining prisoners were trasferred to KZ-Sachsenburg in accordance with Theodor Eicke's restructuring of the KZs.
Luca
KZ-Hohnstein existed until 15 August 1934, when about 5.600 prisoners in total had passed through the camp. The bodies of 140 dead were discovered when the camp was closed, which was a very high death rate within these first camps. Among the guards were also SA men who previously had been prisoners in penitentiaries, which meant they where hardened criminals. The treatment of the internees in this KZ was terrible.
Those first arrested by the SA-Sturmes 5/100 arrived in KZ-Hohnstein on 14 march 1933, and by the end of this month the camp size was 430 inmates. Later the number increased to about 600 in August, and at most nearly to 1.000. Approximately 100 women passed through this camp,too. Their main job was doing the laudry for the male prisoners. Among those interned in this KZ were also 400 youth. In November 1933 about 250 prisoners from KZ-Sachsenburg arrived in KZ-Hohnstein.
The camp Commandant from the beginning was SA-Sturmbannfuhrer Rudolf Jahnichen, who led an administration and a guard of about 90 people.On 30 june 1934 men from the SS-Sonderkommando Dresden took over the command in KZ-Hohnstein. This was a consequence of the Rohm-Affair throughout Germany on this day. From then on SS-Sturmfuhrer Karl Koch was commandant. This lasted until the camp was closed only two weeks later, when the remaining prisoners were trasferred to KZ-Sachsenburg in accordance with Theodor Eicke's restructuring of the KZs.
Luca