This is an apolitical forum for discussions on the Axis nations, as well as the First and Second World Wars in general hosted by Marcus Wendel's Axis History Factbook in cooperation with Michael Miller's Axis Biographical Research, Christoph Awender's WW2 day by day, Dan Reinbold's Das Reich and Christian Ankerstjerne's Panzerworld.
by Dimitrii on 30 Jan 2004 12:18
by redcoat on 30 Jan 2004 13:29
Stubaf wrote:Today, 30th of january, it is exactly 59 years ago that the hospital ship Wilhelm Gustloff was torpedoed by the Russians
by Dimitrii on 30 Jan 2004 18:25
by David Thompson on 30 Jan 2004 19:23
by redcoat on 31 Jan 2004 00:37
Stubaf wrote:Not a warcrime? Topic moved? Hmm.
- the ship by construction was a holiday transporter
- very large indications of Red Cross declaration
this was because the captain of the ship was more worried about a collision with another ship in the crowded water than any Soviet submarine threat (up until that night no Soviet submarines had operated in that area)travelled at full illumination in the night
About 'soldiers':- the swimming pool inside the ship, was emptied then and occupied by hundreds of German women soldiers of communication units. These 400 people were killed on impact as one torpedo hit the ship exactly on this spot.
The submarine purpose seems to be a mere lie.
Neither the construction
nor the actual use of this ship had something to do with submarines.
by alf on 31 Jan 2004 02:23
On the bridge of the GUSTLOFF there was an animated discussion about the ship’s course. A course hugging the coastline increased the danger from mines, while the deepwater northerly course, Emergency Route 58, posed more of a danger from subs. Captain Petersen minimized the danger from mines but pointed out that British planes had been active in the coastal area around Danzig. They would sail the northerly route. The idea of sailing a zigzag course was briefly considered but was quickly discarded on two accounts: Route 58 had been swept free of mines but was too narrow to permit zigzagging. Also, the tactic would consume far too much time.
One thing the GUSTLOFF had in its favor was the weather forecast. The worse the weather, the better the chances for a safe transit. It called for snow and poor visibility. But two hours into the voyage the weather suddenly started to clear somewhat. Another ominous sign: The TF-1 suddenly developed a leaking seam and radioed that it would have to return to port. Simultaneously, radio reports on sudden sub activity in the southern Baltic were broadcast from the naval radio station in Gotenhafen. Whether they were picked up by the GUSTLOFF is not known, but the LÖWE was capable of receiving transmissions only from its headquarters further west in Swinemünde.
Just before nightfall, Captain Petersen made his second critical error. He ordered full illumination, reasoning that the danger from collision in the low visibility was greater than any danger from subs. His executive officer had argued that the standard blue lights would give sufficient warning to passing ships. But the captain prevailed, and the GUSTLOFF was lit up like a cruise ship gaily enroute to Majorca.
As every nook and cranny aboard the LÖWE became full of huddled survivors, the heavy cruiser ADMIRAL HIPPER suddenly hove into view. The HIPPER was now the largest German warship in the Baltic, but it too had been ordered west and was herself carrying a load of about 1,500 refugees. She had sailed from Danzig a few hours later than the GUSTLOFF, but was moving at flank speed of 32 knots. Wild cries of jubilation broke out among passengers still aboard the GUSTLOFF. Peering through his binoculars, Captain Henigst took stock of the situation. Three empty lifeboats still hung in their davits, there were nine empty life rafts and the ship now had a 30 degree list to port.
It was now apparent to Henigst that his ship’s high freeboard would be an enormous obstacle to any rescue attempt. And in their weakened condition, only the most fit survivors would be able to climb the Jacobs ladders. In addition, the time required for this type of rescue operation would take hours. Henigst was torn. But before he could decide on his next move, one of his lookouts spotted a torpedo wake 20 degrees off his starboard bow. Then a second. The captain lost no time and radioed all rescue vessels: "U-boat risk too great for us to risk ship, passengers and crew. Also, our high freeboard would hinder and slow rescue attempts. Am leaving operations in your hands. Wish you success and good luck. Henigst."
by Erich on 31 Jan 2004 18:25
by WalterS on 13 Dec 2004 05:36
On 30 January, Germany's largest "Strength through Joy" sea-cruise liner, the Wilhelm Gustloff, which had been designed to take 2,000 passengers, left with between 6,600 and 9,000 people aboard. That night, escorted by a single motor torpedo boat, it was stalked by a Soviet submarine of the Baltic Fleet. Captain A. I. Marinesco fired three torpedoes. All hit their target. Exhausted refugees, shaken from their sleep, panicked. There was a desperate rush to reach the lifeboats. Many were cut off below as the icy sea rushed in: the air temperature outside was minus eighteen Celsius. The lifeboats which had been launched were upset by desperate refugees leaping from the ship's side. The ship sank in less than an hour. Between 5,300 and 7,400 people lost their lives. The 1,300 survivors were rescued by vessels, led by the heavy cruiser Admiral Hipper. It was the greatest maritime disaster in history.
by WalterS on 13 Dec 2004 16:39
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