Auschwitz in pictures

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Helly Angel
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Auschwitz in pictures

#1

Post by Helly Angel » 20 Mar 2002, 06:35

Hi all,

Where Can I found a book or what titles Do you recommend to me about Auschwitz in pictures?

Thanks in advance,

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Angelo
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Auschwitz In Pictures

#2

Post by Angelo » 20 Mar 2002, 13:50

I would suggest: AUSCHWITZ, A HISTORY IN PHOTOGRAPHS by
Teresa Swiebocka, Jonathan Webber, Connie Wilsack (Editors)

It can be found at http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN% ... 62-6503951
where you can get more info on it as well as some editorial and customers reviews.

I don't own that book, but I gave it a look by a friend of mine who bought it recently and I'd say it's a must for any researcher, whether student or professional. Most pictures are in black & white, of course, and a lot of them were no news to me, but to get the whole bunch in just 1 book would, by itself, be a good reason to own it.

Angelo


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Helly Angel
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#3

Post by Helly Angel » 20 Mar 2002, 17:50

Thanks Angelo, thanks very much! :P

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Hans
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#4

Post by Hans » 20 Mar 2002, 21:00

A collection of photographs taken at the ramp of Auschwitz -Birkenau in summer 1944 is the so called Auschwitz Album, as book

Gesichter der Juden in Auschwitz. Lili Meiers Album.

The photos were taken by a German SS man and show the arrival of one or more Jewish transports from Hungary and the process that followed: unloading, selection, accommodation of the fit and the march of the unfit to the crematoria.

The fate of Jews in Auschwitz: left, gas chamber - right, forced labour
Image

Women and children of this transport, just before entering crematorium II. The building in the background, on the other side of the road, is crematorium III. This is the last picture of this group...
Image

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Helly Angel
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#5

Post by Helly Angel » 20 Mar 2002, 21:32

Thanks Hans for the links and photos.

I hope nobody cry for this historical TESTIMONY of a horrible and undenied TRUE.

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Hans
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#6

Post by Hans » 20 Mar 2002, 22:16

There are three other photographs of the mass murder in Auschwitz-Birkenau, which were taken secretely by the Jewish Sonderkommando of Birkenau and sent out via the camp resistance.

One photo is showing women undressing in the wooden area near crematorium V. The man dressed in dark trousers and a white shirt on the right side of the picture is a member of the Jewish Sonderkommando (which didnt exist according to "revisionists") who had to help to undress the victims and to direct them to the gas chambers.

Image

The other photos are showing a burning pit behind crematorium V. The photo was taken from an empty gas chamber of the crematorium. Some members of the Sonderkommando can be seen and a SS men on the left.

Image

See also this scan from a book from Jean-Claude Pressac , a french Auschwitz expert
elsewhere which shows the location the photographer.

There is also a Luftwaffe photo (taken in July 1944) showing smoke rising from exactly this location, behind the crematorium V. Needless to say that this place has been identified by numerous eyewitnesses as location where open air cremation of gassed people has been taken place

regards,

Hans

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EternaL
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#7

Post by EternaL » 20 Mar 2002, 23:15

Image
_____________________________________________________________

An interesting detail : the women, shown on this picture (which is of extreme bad quality) seem to be extremely thin (note the breasts), due to low food ratio and starvation, but the most of Auschwitz victims have been gassed immediately after the arrival. Think a bit about it.

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#8

Post by Thorfinn » 21 Mar 2002, 00:42

I am surprised that people still show such things, like these pictures, as "proof". I think that it makes the person look foolish. It is laughable to read the captions that are saying "here are a group of people; right after this picture, they were all killed in the building behind them". There is no proof to statements such as this.

It is also quite foolish to post pictures of what are purported to be burning bodies. How else is one to dispose of large numbers of bodies? You can either burn them, bury them, or both. Someman is not evil for disposing of bodies.

Most of these pictures are normal photos that are twisted out of context by someones creative imagination. Many of these pictures are fakes.

On one hand, you say that the Third Reich wanted to keep quiet their organised extermination of the jews, and that is why there is no paper order from Hitler. On the other hand, you say that the Third Reich was taking pictures of their organised extermination of the jews. Get your story strait.

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#9

Post by Christo » 21 Mar 2002, 01:23

Thorfinn is right in one major aspect : the pictures, which are presented in this topic do not prove the historical fact of mass extermination. We have some naked women and a male person , who is being recognized as a member of the jewish "Sonderkommando". I can not see anymore on this picture. We have got transport documents, eye-witness reports and the files from the trials for irrefutable evidence, but not these pictures.

The second one shows a group of men, burning thin corpses. The physical aspect of the bodies underlines, that these unlucky men and women have suffered from starvation and most likely have died by an infection (e.g. Typhus, Shigella etc.) - again not a proof of death by gassing.

The last picture from the first post shows a group of women and children, standing in front of a house, which looks much likely as the well known crematorium III, but the short chimney is noticable - again not a proof of the following death by gassing.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Let's conclude : most of the presented photographic material does not bring us a visuale evidence of the "Holocaust". We have to use other and more reliable sources (see above).

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#10

Post by Hans » 21 Mar 2002, 14:11

EternaL wrote: An interesting detail : the women, shown on this picture (which is of extreme bad quality) seem to be extremely thin (note the breasts), due to low food ratio and starvation, but the most of Auschwitz victims have been gassed immediately after the arrival. Think a bit about it.
The group that is prepared for the homicidal gassing could be coming from a transport from the liquidation of the Jewish ghetto of Lodz, according to the holocaust denier Carlo Mattogno about 60 000 Jews from Lodz were sent to Auschwitz in this period (August/Septemer 1944). The food supply for Jewish ghettos was incredible low, so this could explain why the women appear extremely thin to EternaL.

Another possibility is that the women were sent to Auschwitz with a so called Invalidentransport, a transport from forced labour camps with exhausted prisoners. The people of this transports were of course extremely thin.

A third possibility is that the photogaph is showing the liquidation of unfit registered Auschwitz prisoners. in such a case, the unfit prisoners were selected in the "hospital" or Krankenbau for extermination. These Jews were usually extremely thin and weak. Such a liquidation took for example place on 8th October 1944 in the women camp of Birkenau, see http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/ftp.py?ca ... andlung.01

The SS doctor Johann Paul Kremer has participated in such a mass extermination in September 1942, and he wrote about it in his diary:
In the morning attended a special action from the women's concentration camp (Muslims); the most dreadful of horrors. Master-Sergeant Thilo (troop doctor) was right when he said to me that this is the anus mundi. In the evening towards 8:00 attended another special action from Holland. Because of the special rations they get a fifth of a liter of schnapps, 5 cigarettes, 100 g salami and bread, the men all clamor to take part in such actions. Today and tomorrow (Sunday) work.

Source: http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschw ... 01-kremer/

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#11

Post by Hans » 21 Mar 2002, 15:55

Christo wrote:Thorfinn is right in one major aspect : the pictures, which are presented in this topic do not prove the historical fact of mass extermination.
Well, the pictures alone do not prove such thing. But I never claimed that they would do. I've have only explained what they show. The evidence for my claims are coming from other sources of course.

For example, we know from two eyewitness accounts, witnesses who were present when the photos were taken, and from a report from the Auschwiz resistance, that the naked women were sent into the gas chambers and that gassed victims were cremated in the pit.

This is established by other evidence. The photos have to be interpreted with other evidence of course. Often, photographs without supporting evidence prove nothing. For instance, a picture of people lying in a homicidal gas chamber wouldn't prove that these people were killed in this room and they wouldn't prove the existence of gas chambers. This picture, showing nothing else but gassed corpses in a gas chamber, would prove nothing at all for "revisionist schoolars"!
We have some naked women and a male person , who is being recognized as a member of the jewish "Sonderkommando". I can not see anymore on this picture. We have got transport documents, eye-witness reports and the files from the trials for irrefutable evidence, but not these pictures.
The pictures support the other evidence. For example, the burning pit picture supports the eyewitnesses who claim that open air cremation occured behind crematorium V. And on the other side, the eyewitnesses help to understand what we see on the photos.

They do also refute some "revisionist" claims. For instance, "Revisionists" have always claimed that pit burning was impossible in Auschwitz because the ground water level was to high. The burning pit photo is just one evidence that refutes this claim in the most effective way. (another is that the Auschwitz authorities have started a drainage project in 1941)
The second one shows a group of men, burning thin corpses. The physical aspect of the bodies underlines, that these unlucky men and women have suffered from starvation and most likely have died by an infection (e.g. Typhus, Shigella etc.) - again not a proof of death by gassing.
This is nonsense, Christo. Few people, compared with 1942/1943, died of Typhus in August 1944. One reason for this fact was the new build delousing and washing facility, the Zentralsauna. And those prisoners, who died of "natural cause" could have been easyly cremated in the two big crematoria II and III.
The existence of bit burning strongly suggests mass murder in Auschwitz.

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#12

Post by Hans » 21 Mar 2002, 17:46

Thorfinn wrote:I am surprised that people still show such things, like these pictures, as "proof".
Who has shown this pictures as proof? Perhaps you can quote from my posts where I did such thing.
It is laughable to read the captions that are saying "here are a group of people; right after this picture, they were all killed in the building behind them". There is no proof to statements such as this.
I said that the group was entering the crematorium (not the one in the background, the one just infront of them and not visible on this photograph) after the picture was taken. This is a very reasonable conclusion, since the crematorium is the only and last building on that side of the road. Also, the last picture shows this group infront of the entrance of the crematorium , and no step further. This strongly suggests that the photographer didn't take more pictures of this group because they journey stopped there.

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#13

Post by Christo » 21 Mar 2002, 18:59

This is nonsense, Christo. Few people, compared with 1942/1943, died of Typhus in August 1944. One reason for this fact was the new build delousing and washing facility, the Zentralsauna. And those prisoners, who died of "natural cause" could have been easyly cremated in the two big crematoria II and III.
The existence of bit burning strongly suggests mass murder in Auschwitz.
_____________________________________________________________

Hans, i did not say that it is not possible that these people (shown on the picture) have been killed by gassing. Please take a closer look upon the bodies, they are extremely thin (which does indicate that they have suffered from starvation and most likely Typhus or another infectious desease with great water and electrolyt losses). I guess that this picture is a bad example for showing the burning of gassed bodies. Remember : the most of the victims has been killed immediately after their arrival. The bodies of the people shown here, seem to make the impression, that they have stayed longer at the camp site before their death. Its a small but noteworthy detail.

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#14

Post by Hans » 22 Mar 2002, 15:34

Christo, were the Jews in the polish ghettos not suffering from starvation and deseases? Were the Jews that were selected for extermination in the "hospitals" of Birkenau not suffering from starvation and deseases? Your observation that the people most likely suffered from starvation and deseases is perfectly in correspondence with the fact that the pictures do show mass murder in Auschwitz-Birkenau.

We have two direct (and plenty of other evidence - testimonial, documentary, photographic and phyiscal - that Jews had to undress in the forest next to the crematorium, were gassed in the crematorium and were cremated in pits behind the crematorium) pieces of evidence that the pictures show extermination of people, a note that was sent together with the photos to Cracow , and the testimony of the sole surviver of the operation, David Szmulewski, who was interviewed by Jean-Claude Pressac (and we have none that they show something else!). Based on Szmulewski's testimony and on his own comprehensive analysis of the pictures, Pressac was able to reconstruct what most likely has happenend and what we most likely see on them:
In the summer of 1944, the Sonderkommando men asked the camp resistance
for a small camera so that they could record the criminal tasks they were
forced to carry out: emptying the gas chambers and incineration of the
bodies. The Sonderkommando organized some damage to the roof of the gas
chambers of Krematorium V and requested repairs. The internal camp
resistance came into action. A "flying squad" to which Szmulewski, a
member of this organization, belonged came to repair the damage.
Szmulewski was carrying a dixie can with a false bottom in which the
camera was hidden. Once the prisoner-repairman were on the roof,
Szmulewski pased the camera to a Sonderkommando man working at the
cremation ditch who had placed himself against the north wall of the gas
chambers, under the roof overhang which was 2.45 from the ground. This
prisner then quickly entered the north gas chamber whose door was open for
ventilation purposes. There he was safe, as the room had already been
emptied of corpses. Fromthe centre of this room he took photographs of his
comrades feeding bodies intot he cremation ditch. Then, hiding the camera
in his right hand, he emerged from the building and went along the north
wall to the eastern end of the building then about 30 metres into the wood,
moving parallel to the eastern end of the building, under the cover of
trees. In front of the Krematorium, to the south, a group of women
considered unfit to work, the next "batch", was undressing. Some of them
were already naked, a little way from the others, taking a few steps while
waiting. The sun was shining right into his face, through the trees lining
the Ringstrasse, so there could be no question of using the camera
normally, using the viewfinder as he had done in the gas chamber. From
rather far away, so as not to be noticed, he took the first picture of the
women by guesswork, holding his right arm against his side withthe camera
in his palm. Hidden behind a tree, he wound the film, emerged and took
another picture in the same way as before. The direction the lens was
pointing in was difficult to judge under these conditions and he pointed
the camera too high, photographing the tops of the three instead of the
women [Photo 18]. Retracing his steps,he returned to the comparitive
safety of the Krematorium, moving along the north wall to the gas
chambers. Szmulewski was watching out for him. A quick look around, no SS.
The Sonderkommando held up the camera which rapidly changed hands again
[see the photograph showing the assumed path of the photographer].
Szmulewski replaced the camera in the bottom of the dixie, the repair was
completed and the flying squad departed. The whole process had taken only
fifteen to thirty minutes. The photos were taken out of the camp and
handed over to the Polish resistance in Cracow.

Source:http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp ... ng-pit.ref

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#15

Post by Mito » 22 Mar 2002, 21:39

:?: Isn't Zyklon-B toxic and inflammable?
The picture showing the sonderkommandos walking over the dead bodies and near the crematorium... Isn't that dangerous?

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