An offer by the Simon Wiesenthal Centre to provide $10,000 rewards for information about former Nazi collaborators in Lithuania has stirred strong passions in the Lithuanian press.
The centre has accused Lithuania more than once of an inability or unwillingness to try people suspected of collaboration with the Nazis.
The magazine Veidas takes offence, warning that the offer suggests Lithuanians are consciously hiding Nazi collaborators, and that only money would persuade them to reveal the names of persons who took part in the genocide.
"Obviously, this attitude hurts the pride of the Lithuanian people and it could start polluting the atmosphere in Lithuanian-Jewish relations and arousing mutual mistrust," the magazine warns.
"One must not forget that... the Nazis also used similar means to find Jews who were in hiding," Veidas concluded.
...
The newspaper Kauno Diena warns that "any lawyer would agree that a great deal of information received in such cases is not only useless but also misleading".
"Will people's evidence be reliable? Is it possible to remember precisely enough things that happened 60 years ago? Moreover, as people are now ready to go to court over a small plot of land and families are torn apart by conflicts over property, only God knows what they might start saying about each other for $10,000," the paper goes on.
It also notes that the head of the Jerusalem branch of the Simon Wiesenthal Centre, Dr Efraim Zuroff, has admitted that the likelihood of victims recognising their oppressors is very remote.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/ ... 124672.stm
Lithuania offended by Nazi hunters' reward
Lithuania offended by Nazi hunters' reward
It just amazas me how persistant they are still looking for "nazi war criminals".At the same time nobody wants to hear anything about communist war criminals. Compare to nazis there is still tens of thousands soviet war criminals and ex KGB agents living freely in this world without any regret or prosecution!
Some local businessmen here said that they are ready to offer 10 000$ to those, who give information which leads to the conviction of Jewish war criminals. Somebody Heiki Kortspärn has even offered 20 000$.
Anyway here's a good article by Pekka Erelt from last week's newspaper "Eesti Ekspress." Here's my loose translation of some parts from it.
Anyway here's a good article by Pekka Erelt from last week's newspaper "Eesti Ekspress." Here's my loose translation of some parts from it.
Here's my opinion: Anti-semitism is deliberately created by some circles, who then can fight against it forever and at the same time make big amount of money from it."Why made Efraim Zuroff, the head of the Wiesenthal Centre, an offer to Estonians - 10 000 $ for a head of a war criminal? He must know it as well as the Kaitsepolitsei ("Kaitsepolitsei" can be called Estonian version of the FBI - Reigo), that in the archives, already throughoughly looked by the KGB, can't be found anymore waterproof evidence for the conviction of another Jew murderer. And the information from some money-greedy elder against another elder, is not a proof...
In Zuroff's offer there is a very notable clause. The award will be given for truthful information, which helps to bring Nazi-criminals to the court and convict them. So the money will be recieved only then, when Estonian court has convicted the war criminal. Probably nobody will never see these 10 000 $ here. Probably also Zuroff knows this very well, that there will be no need to give away these dollars. The case of Harry Männil only affirms this assumption.
Zuroff just repeats and repeats that Männil had direct part in killing Jews. To prove this in court he needs the help of the Estonian goverment, which should ask the necessary evidentary documents from the special investigation department of the US Department of Justice. This was again confirmed by Zuroff last week in an online-interwiev by Delfi ("Delfi" is a popular internet-portal - Reigo). But the Kaitsepolitsei has already recieved from the special investigation department of the US Department of Justice all documents, which tell about the past of Männil. And this "bomb-evidence" was actually nothing more than the copies of documents found in the Estonian archives, sent by the Kaitsepolitsei. These don't prove Männil's guilt in killing Jews ... It would be naive to think that Zuroff doesn't know this.
It's obvious that Zuroff needs some new case, since you can't use Männil forever. This is the reason behind the 10 000$ offer. "There is no direct link between the finance and the work-results of the Wiesenthal Centre. But of course people want to support an organisation, which besides expressing the wish to fulfill some aim, also fulfills the aim," told Zuroff to Delfi.
When Zuroff pulls out new cases, then he has fulfilled the abovemntioned aim even if these cases doesn't end up in a court-room...
Zuroff's actions could be also ignored if there wouldn't be the problem that these actions are containing a sort of a trigger-effect. The irritating statements of the Nazi-hunter are actually water for the mill of anti-semitism... How long can an Estonian be tolerant, when they tell to him/her: "Your country wants to join the European Union and NATO. We will bring out the Männil's case, if needed" (Zuroff 2001) or "I intend to make an statement that there should be declared a tourism-boycott against these countries (Baltic - P.E) and that businessmen should end their deals with them" (Simon Wiesenthal 2002).
Zuroff's lately made statements deserve careful reading: "At the same time we are dealing with contemporary anti-semitism and when the time will pass we will direct more efforts and funds to fight it," said the Nazi-hunter to Delfi..
The Latvian government has refused from Zuroff's offer. The Latvian state is able to bring the war criminals to the court-room by herself and doesn't need the intrusion of Wiesenthal Centre, was the answer to Zuroff."
An interesting thought.Reigo wrote:Here's my opinion: Anti-semitism is deliberately created by some circles, who then can fight against it forever and at the same time make big amount of money from it.
If accurate, it would mean that the “Big Five” of “Revisionism” are subsidiaries of the ADL.
Don’t let their fans read that …:lol:
Let's put this straight, such as even Roberto will understand:Roberto wrote:An interesting thought.Reigo wrote:Here's my opinion: Anti-semitism is deliberately created by some circles, who then can fight against it forever and at the same time make big amount of money from it.
If accurate, it would mean that the “Big Five” of “Revisionism” are subsidiaries of the ADL.
Don’t let their fans read that …:lol:
1. Baltic countries had been part of the Soviet Union for almost 50 years;
2. What the Soviets did there - from which just the tip of the iceberg is known - was still not enough to track down "Nazis";
3. Or maybe even the Soviets had hidden them?
4. Now, after six decades, comes from nowhere a Zuroff, who claims that there are "Nazis" there, and he wants a few heads, for which he is willing to pay;
5. This stirs the Baltic media;
6. Zuroff and SWC have now the pretext to say the Balts are Anti-Semitic, and they "have to fight Anti-Semitism";
7. The pretext is used as blackmail in the light of the Baltic efforts to join NATO and EU.
Very interesting.
Now I expect the venom-spilling Gentiles around to jump outraged and say that they are just doing the right thing, only with a delay.
I remember there was a radio station in Gleiwitz.........
~Ovidius
What is "Big Five" of "Revisionism"?If accurate, it would mean that the “Big Five” of “Revisionism” are subsidiaries of the ADL.
And ADL is Anti Defasomething League?
I don't think that "Revisionism" has created anti-semitism here. Probably only very few people here are interested in revisionism and their voice is very low (practically zero).
But the Wiesenthal Centre creats anti-semitism here. That's 100 % sure.
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Richard Miller
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The Hegelian DialecticOvidius wrote:Let's put this straight, such as even Roberto will understand:Roberto wrote:An interesting thought.Reigo wrote:Here's my opinion: Anti-semitism is deliberately created by some circles, who then can fight against it forever and at the same time make big amount of money from it.
If accurate, it would mean that the “Big Five” of “Revisionism” are subsidiaries of the ADL.
Don’t let their fans read that …:lol:
1. Baltic countries had been part of the Soviet Union for almost 50 years;
2. What the Soviets did there - from which just the tip of the iceberg is known - was still not enough to track down "Nazis";
3. Or maybe even the Soviets had hidden them?
4. Now, after six decades, comes from nowhere a Zuroff, who claims that there are "Nazis" there, and he wants a few heads, for which he is willing to pay;
5. This stirs the Baltic media;
6. Zuroff and SWC have now the pretext to say the Balts are Anti-Semitic, and they "have to fight Anti-Semitism";
7. The pretext is used as blackmail in the light of the Baltic efforts to join NATO and EU.
Very interesting.
Now I expect the venom-spilling Gentiles around to jump outraged and say that they are just doing the right thing, only with a delay.
I remember there was a radio station in Gleiwitz.........
~Ovidius
THESIS, ANTITHESIS, and SYNTHESIS:
THESIS: Create a problem.
ANTITHESIS: Generate opposition to the problem (fear, panic, hysteria).
SYNTHESIS: Offer the solution to the problem created in step one; which would invariably be a societal "change" or "shift" which would have been impossible to impose upon the people without the proper psychological conditioning achieved in stages one and two.
Or, in American circles "wagging the dog".
Ovidius wrote:Roberto wrote:An interesting thought.Reigo wrote:Here's my opinion: Anti-semitism is deliberately created by some circles, who then can fight against it forever and at the same time make big amount of money from it.
If accurate, it would mean that the “Big Five” of “Revisionism” are subsidiaries of the ADL.
Don’t let their fans read that …:lol:
No explanation required, as I've read the thread and understood the problem.Ovidius wrote:Let's put this straight, such as even Roberto will understand:
I was only under the impression that the case was limited to the Baltic countries, regarding which Reigo's statement may be considered defensible.
That's why the general wording of it invited this little joke of mine.
Reigo wrote:If accurate, it would mean that the “Big Five” of “Revisionism” are subsidiaries of the ADL.
Zündelsite, IHR, Codoh, Adelaide Institute, VHO. One big happy family. You may find them and other enlightened outfits via this link:Reigo wrote:What is "Big Five" of "Revisionism"?
http://vho.org/Archive.html
Their bête noire (or their mother organization?). Look them up underReigo wrote:And ADL is Anti Defasomething League?
http://www.adl.org/
"Revisionism" does not create anti-Semitism. "Revisionism" is anti-Semitism.Reigo wrote:I don't think that "Revisionism" has created anti-semitism here.
That's good to know. Smart people over there.Reigo wrote:Probably only very few people here are interested in revisionism and their voice is very low (practically zero).
Why anti-Semitism? Wouldn’t it suffice to say that “Mr. Zuroff and the SWC are a bunch of …”?Reigo wrote:But the Wiesenthal Centre creats anti-semitism here. That's 100 % sure.
A simpler way to say it:Richard Miller wrote:The Hegelian Dialectic
THESIS, ANTITHESIS, and SYNTHESIS:
THESIS: Create a problem.
ANTITHESIS: Generate opposition to the problem (fear, panic, hysteria).
SYNTHESIS: Offer the solution to the problem created in step one; which would invariably be a societal "change" or "shift" which would have been impossible to impose upon the people without the proper psychological conditioning achieved in stages one and two.
Or, in American circles "wagging the dog".
A software company designs a software virus, spreads it, then it begins to advertise for their newest anti-virus, the only one that eliminates that specific virus
It isn't limited. Remember the "Schiffer Case"? they claimed he lived for decades in USA, that they did not knew this, that they "discovered" him and sent him over.....Roberto wrote:No explanation required, as I've read the thread and understood the problem.
I was only under the impression that the case was limited to the Baltic countries, regarding which Reigo's statement may be considered defensible.
As I said, once upon a time(about 1939) there was a radio station in Gleiwitz.....
~Ovidius
PS If anyone here says what Mr. Zuroff and SWC are, he/she will be charged with anti-Semitism, banned from the forum, sued and sentenced
Yes, it would be actually suffice to say it. Zuroff doesn't make me an anti-semite. But you have to understand that in the eyes of many "average" people SWC and Jews are practically one and the same thing. SWC represents the interests of the Jews.Why anti-Semitism? Wouldn’t it suffice to say that “Mr. Zuroff and the SWC are a bunch of …”?