Chinese in Wehrmacht

Discussions on all (non-biographical) aspects of the Freikorps, Reichswehr, Austrian Bundesheer, Heer, Waffen-SS, Volkssturm and Fallschirmjäger and the other Luftwaffe ground forces. Hosted by Christoph Awender.
User avatar
Dipsy_Powell
Member
Posts: 10
Joined: 03 Apr 2004, 17:51
Location: King's Colony ,Hong Kong
Contact:

Chinese in Wehrmacht

#1

Post by Dipsy_Powell » 21 Apr 2004, 15:41

[img]His name is Chiang Wai Kwok ,the second son of China national Persident --Chiang Kai Shek .This photo may be took when he was studying in Munich military college ,at that time he was despacht to learning Panzer strategy ,be a junior office(lieutenant) after graduated .
Attachments
留德軍校學生.jpg
留德軍校學生.jpg (90.76 KiB) Viewed 6351 times

User avatar
Dipsy_Powell
Member
Posts: 10
Joined: 03 Apr 2004, 17:51
Location: King's Colony ,Hong Kong
Contact:

#2

Post by Dipsy_Powell » 21 Apr 2004, 15:52

This photo show Chiang Wai Kwok with his class master
(This photo have been posted before ,however ,in order to make the mass know it more clearly ,I post again)
Attachments
2.jpg
2.jpg (48.63 KiB) Viewed 6367 times


User avatar
Dipsy_Powell
Member
Posts: 10
Joined: 03 Apr 2004, 17:51
Location: King's Colony ,Hong Kong
Contact:

#3

Post by Dipsy_Powell » 21 Apr 2004, 16:18

In fact ,China and Germany have a long term military connection before 1945 ,especially in weapons purchasing .Before outbroke of WWII ,Chinese national governnment had purchased approxiamtely 100,000 M-35 to equiped the central army ,another fire arms also brought but just less to appear in photograph such as MG-42.
There quite interesting ,though Nazi Germany is a axis of Imperal Japan ,but still have diplomacy with China .In 1937 ,China diplomat (I forget his name in Eng.) had meet with hitler.At that time ,Hitler attitude were support China ,while talk about the japanese invasion ,Hitler looked like very angry ,and his angry because japanese had even sudden attack German garrision in Tsing Tiao ,China, before the end of WWI .He said this is the shame of the Germans .

All resources are quoted from China
Attachments
c014.gif
This is a China War time poster ,showing the military cooperation and connection between China and Germany
c014.gif (33.06 KiB) Viewed 6339 times

User avatar
Dipsy_Powell
Member
Posts: 10
Joined: 03 Apr 2004, 17:51
Location: King's Colony ,Hong Kong
Contact:

#4

Post by Dipsy_Powell » 21 Apr 2004, 16:29

THis is another interesting photograph that I had seen ,you can see all of them are Asian .some of them are came from Mongolia and Tibet .
In the second world war ,soviet union kidnapped the man in border and force them fight to German ,but they were easy to surrender and finally serve for Wehrmacht
Attachments
華藉德軍.jpg
華藉德軍.jpg (95.06 KiB) Viewed 6337 times

User avatar
MAX_theHitMan
Member
Posts: 965
Joined: 19 Apr 2004, 01:28
Location: Planet*Portugal

#5

Post by MAX_theHitMan » 21 Apr 2004, 16:56

Thank for posting such an interesting article and great photos. 8)

I have read about those poor guys who where captured by the red army during the war and forced to fight against the germans somewhere in Stalingrad (or some other city) But unfortunatly they were again captured and they were forced to fight on the german side against the Russians, if they ever wanted to go home.
Now I can say it´s true because you have showed us a picture. Thank you.

I wonder if they ever got home?


Cheers :)
MAX

User avatar
Eden Zhang
Member
Posts: 1196
Joined: 28 Dec 2003, 10:54
Location: XXX

#6

Post by Eden Zhang » 21 Apr 2004, 17:50

Do you reckon Hitler may've supported China because at the time the Chinese government was fighting against communism?

Panzermahn
Member
Posts: 3639
Joined: 13 Jul 2002, 04:51
Location: Malaysia

#7

Post by Panzermahn » 22 Apr 2004, 12:51

dipsy_powell

Lei ho mah? Ngo hai ma lai sai ah kong fu yen ...

That picture was never shown before and thanks a lot...But i believe Wego Chiang was attached to a Gebirgsjager division not Panzer and served during the Austrian anschluss

User avatar
K.Kocjancic
Member
Posts: 6788
Joined: 27 Mar 2003, 20:57
Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia

#8

Post by K.Kocjancic » 22 Apr 2004, 13:57

Does anyone know how Chiang Wai Kwok was communicating during his trip to Germany? Could he speak German?

User avatar
Dipsy_Powell
Member
Posts: 10
Joined: 03 Apr 2004, 17:51
Location: King's Colony ,Hong Kong
Contact:

#9

Post by Dipsy_Powell » 22 Apr 2004, 15:29

First of all about the Asian auxiliary ,I'm not sure have them came home or not ,because I have any detail more .

Thank for Eden Zhang because he remind me Hitler suppoet China national government due to the threat of cummunism ,I think that is a great point .But Sino-Germany military connetion had developed in a very long term in History,even before Hitler came up to power .Though not all the member in Nazis are support China ,Göring is a case in point .

In reply of the profile of Chiang Wai Kwok ,the test book said he serve in "Tank unit" ,so translate into English is "Panzer" ,may be Gebirgsjager also collect ,because the book does not denote it very clearly .However ,I'm sure he serve in tank unit in the China civil war ,he was in charge of tank strategy .

:D Furthermore ,I think Chiang Wai Kwok could speak German ,no evidence prove he has a translator in Germany ,he not only can speak German ,but also in English ,after the military studying in Münich ,he continue his military studying in America .
Chiang Wai kwok is a son of the presient ,so he could enjoy a good education .

If any buddy have more information about it ,please share with us ,above information are hard to found ,because all the archive had been shifted to Taiwan since the Communism Regime occupied mainland China. :D

Rob - wssob2
Member
Posts: 2387
Joined: 15 Apr 2002, 21:29
Location: MA, USA

#10

Post by Rob - wssob2 » 22 Apr 2004, 15:46

Chinese national governnment had purchased approxiamtely 100,000 M-35 to equiped the central army ,another fire arms also brought but just less to appear in photograph such as MG-42
Hold on a moment. I think we need some more facts and clarity on the subject.

Various German firms, such a Krupp and Rheinmettal, were arms manufacturers and exporters. There were arms manufacturers and exporters from other countries as well- Sweden, Czechoslovakia, France, the USSR etc. These companies, combined with their customers, are known by terms such as the "international arms market". All sorts of countries by all sorts of arms on the international arms market, and that purchase does not necessarily equal political or ideological ties between the two countries. The USSR bought thousands of Rheinmettal's PaK 35/36 37mm antitank gun in 1937, but that doesn't mean Germany and the USSR were diplomatically or ideologically close.

China did have relations with Germany, and it did hire German military advisors to help with its Army, and it did by German arms on the international arms market. But China also bought military equipment from the USSR, and of course sought economic and military assistance from the USA. When you have little economic base and you need to strenthen your armed forces, you take what you can get where you can get it.

BTW when was this picture Chiang Wai Kwok taken? Isn't this photo from circa 1938?(i.e. pre WWII)


I'm a little surprised at the claim that the Nationalist Chinese gov't bought German MG-42 machine guns. Considering the gun was introduced during the war, considering the fact the Chinese had no way of getting the weapons shipped to China, and considering that the US-supplied (and calibrated) machine-gun ammunition wouldn't have fit in the MG-42, it sounds like a remarkably thoughtless purchase.

Do you reckon Hitler may've supported China because at the time the Chinese government was fighting against communism?
No. Then, as now, countries with large arms manufacturing industries incourage arms exports to other countries because its a good source for hard currency, among other beneficial economic considerations.

Rob - wssob2
Member
Posts: 2387
Joined: 15 Apr 2002, 21:29
Location: MA, USA

#11

Post by Rob - wssob2 » 22 Apr 2004, 16:03

BTW where did you get the "Chinese War Time poster"?

The image is missing the swastika symbol on the Iron Cross (required, since the swastika was the symbol of Nazi Germany) and looks a lot like the drawnings Sean Ryan does has done for Axis Europa in the 1990's :|

User avatar
mdx
Member
Posts: 49
Joined: 09 Sep 2002, 16:48
Location: Taiwan
Contact:

#12

Post by mdx » 22 Apr 2004, 16:23

To Dipsy_Powell and all:

I have to thank you to put this thread in the forum because I am also very interesting in those Chinese who were trained in German military academy. Chiang entered Berlin University for learning German language and culture in 1936 when he was 20-y/o. He joined Gebirgsjager in 1937 and got involved in Austrian anschluss and invasion of Sudetenland in 1938. The pictures were scanned from books published in Taiwan, when Chiang was in fact an officer candidate at Munic military academy in 1938. He got his commision and finally became leutnant in 1939 then he returned to China before the war broke out. After that he went to America for learning anti-aircraft and tank tactics in 1939. He returned to China in 1940.

I have several questions about Chiang: which name he used in German? Chiang Wai Kwok? or he had nickname in German? What happened to him when he got involved in Austrian anschluss and invasion of Sudetenland in 1938? I can not find any information how he felt about these pro-military actions. Did he meet Hitler ever?

Another famous Chinese officer trained in German was Chiang Bei Li 蔣百里 (I am not sure how to spell his name in English or in German). He was sent to Berlin by Ch'ing Empire when he was 24-y/o. Some information from China mentioned he was a probation company commander in 7th Army in Eberswald. The commander of 7th Army was General Mackensen and the C-in-C was General Hindenburg. I have to say I am very doubt about information from China. As I know General August von Mackensen was the commander of XVII.Armeekorps, NOT 7. Armee or VII.Armeekorps and Paul von Hindenburg was Kommandierenden Generals in Magdeburg in 1906, NOT C-in-C. Later he returned to China and took charge the only military academy in China in 1912 when he was 30-y/o.

I also have several questions about this Chiang: which name he used in German? Chiang Bei Li (I assume)? or he had nickname in German? Did he raise pigtail hair when he was in German? (As we know men in Ch'ing Empire raise pigtail hair and Ch'ing Empire was overrun in 1912) There was a story about this Chiang when someday he visited a retired German military high ranking officer who told him that he was the star in the east as Napoleon anticipated. Was the story true or NOT?

I hope someone could answer these questions or otherwise I have to go to Bundesarchiv to check their files someday.

Photo of this Chiang:
ImageChiang dressed forestgreen Nationalist officer uniform with the rank of leutnant general.

ImageChiang rode on a horse at the camp in Eberswald in 1911.

I forget my signature :P

Dr.Chuang, MD and MSc
Taipei, Taiwan
http://www.geocities.com/mdx.geo/

User avatar
mdx
Member
Posts: 49
Joined: 09 Sep 2002, 16:48
Location: Taiwan
Contact:

#13

Post by mdx » 22 Apr 2004, 16:39

Rob - WSSOB wrote:BTW where did you get the "Chinese War Time poster"?

The image is missing the swastika symbol on the Iron Cross (required, since the swastika was the symbol of Nazi Germany) and looks a lot like the drawnings Sean Ryan does has done for Axis Europa in the 1990's :|
To Rob - WSSOB:

That is NOT a "Chinese War Time poster"! That is a drawing from a Chinese book (Iron Soul: the analysis of German standarized Nationalist Army in early Sino-Japanese War and Shanghei Campaign, ISBN 957-98411-1-X) writen by my friend Mr.Tung. He draw this so called "Chinese War Time poster"!

The cover of Iron Soul book:
Image

Dr.Chuang, MD and MSc
Taipei, Taiwan
http://www.geocities.com/mdx.geo/

User avatar
Dan E. Moe
Member
Posts: 901
Joined: 23 Dec 2002, 16:15
Location: Trondheim, Norway

#14

Post by Dan E. Moe » 22 Apr 2004, 17:01

Did Chiang Wai Kwok receive the Austrian Anchluss medal?

Regards,
Dan

User avatar
Dipsy_Powell
Member
Posts: 10
Joined: 03 Apr 2004, 17:51
Location: King's Colony ,Hong Kong
Contact:

#15

Post by Dipsy_Powell » 23 Apr 2004, 07:42

Chiang studied at the Nazi period ,but the Nazi government was exist serious race discrimination ,did the German accept Chiang as their officer?

Post Reply

Return to “Heer, Waffen-SS & Fallschirmjäger”