Nazi Antarctica Base

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Nazi Antarctica Base

#1

Post by Ottens » 25 May 2004, 19:23

I doubt the "What if" forum is the best place to post this, but I don't know where else to post it.

So, this thread is about whether or not the Nazis could have achieved the construction of a stronghold on the Antarctican continent, and whether or not this possible base could have survived the war...
"In 1938, Hitler sent an expedition headed by Captain Alfred Richter to the part of Antarctica just opposite the tip of South America to late a site for a base, which would be completed by 1945. In the spring of 1945, when the fall of the Third Reich was become inevitable, the untested kugelblitz, along with the engineers overseeing its construction, were loaded into serveral U-Boat submarines, and taken to this ultra-secret underground base."

The theory of a Nazi base on Antarctica has never been proven. However, there is enough evidence to suggest its presence. The Nazis certainly had an unusual high interest in the Antarctican continent. Throughout the war, man and equipment were sent to Antarctica, and the Germans mapped the continent better then anyone up until then. They renamed the whole area Queen Maude Land as Neu Schwabenland, claiming it for the Reich.

In 1943, Kriegsmarine Admiral Karl Doenitz states that "the German submarine fleet is proud of having built for the Führer in another part of the world a Shangi-La on land, an impregnable fortress..."

After the war was over, the Allies concluded over 250,000 Germans were unaccounted for - likely casualties of war included. Most of those were either scientists, engineers, of members of the SS.

Several U-Boat submarines were missing, including several of the state-of-the-art ocean-going Type XXIII U-Boats. Most notably, the U-977 and the U-530 sailed for open sea, shortly before the war officially ended. The U-977 surrendered in Argentina months later, the submarine completely empty except for its crew. The U-530 was never seen again.

Following the second world war, the United States launched Operation High Jump under command of Admiral Richard E. Byrd in 1947, the world on the brink of the Cold War. The expedition consisted of thirtheen ships, two seaplane tenders, an aircraft carrier, twelve other aircraft, six helicopters, and a force of 4000 men. Its cover mission was that of mapping the entire Antarctic coastline, of which they took 70,000 aerial photographs.

The expedition dicovered an area free of ice that contained unusually coloured lakes, that they called an oasis. A sample of the lake was was obtained and on analysis it was found that the water was brackish, indicating that the lakes were connected to the sea.

An operation that had been planned to last for several months was cut short after a few weeks. The fleet limped home as if defeated, and the local South American press wrote of such defeat. According to the newspaper Brisant, Byrd reportedly told a reporter:

"...it was necessary for the USA to take defensive actions against enemy air fighters which come for the polar regions..." and that in case of a new war "...the United States would be attacked by fighters that are able to fly from one pole to the other with incredible speed."

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#2

Post by maltesefalcon » 25 May 2004, 23:23

Even with today's technology, the continent of Antarctica is too hostile to be used for a major strike base.

Considering the remoteness of its location, the whole idea may have been a PR coup, but otherwise a collosal waste of time and effort.


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#3

Post by ohrdruf » 27 May 2004, 22:51

Recently declassified Argentine documents make it clear that U-977 (Schaeffer) was involved in shielding an unloading operation along the southern coast of Buenos Aires Province. When she surrendered at Mar del Plata on 17 August 1945, U-977 had a large amount of fuel aboard, depth charge damage, and had been repainted. A submerged object was followed and depth charged by the Argentine torpedo boat "Mendoza" near San Antonio del Oeste on 18 July 1945. This was probably U-977. The attack was called off abruptly for unknown reasons.

U-530 (Wermuth) sailed for Argentina after carrying out a highly dangerous secret mission in waters near the United States at the beginning of April 1945. The boat surrendered at Mar del Plata 10 July 1945. All logs, code books, papers, guns, torpedoes (bar one dud) and munitions had been jettisoned overboard beforehand and an attempt made to sabotage the diesels. The boat was found to be in an inexplicably corrosive state.

Declassified Argentine police reports, supported by depositions from three former "Graf Spee" crew members to the CEANA Board of Enquiry into Nazi Activities in Argentina, state that one or two U-boats unloaded at Piedra Negra beach east of Necochea on the night of 27 July 1945.

Since the turn of the century, Germany had designs on Patagonia. The espionage network operated through the Lahusen trading organisation which had stores and ranches in all areas of Patagonia. In the 1930s, it was a standing joke in Argentine political circles that Hitler knew more about Patagonia than Buenos Aires did.

Living in Argentina with a rare interest in postwar Nazi activities in this country, it is my personal opinion that a top secret scientific project was brought here in 1945 and work continues on it to this day. I could point out to you the exact place. Nocturnal and aerial phenomena are similar to those reported over the last sixty years from Ohrdruf, where the technology was created. The locality has been transformed into a sort of place of pagan worship by many local people, who believe there is a mythical city within the mountain.

Antarctica is a place whose future is in the future.

Ohrdruf

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#4

Post by MAX_theHitMan » 28 May 2004, 04:23

In my honest opinion... they would kinda "freeze" to death. :lol:

No, seriously. Think about it. If the Russian winter was "bad" , the Antartica weather would have frozen those guys in a few weeks time. Even with a base they couldn´t survive for too long.
First you gotta take into consideration that they needed food and most inportant... fuel. Fuel to heat up the base constantly from the very low temperatures outside.
OK, so we say the guys did make a base over there (or should I say down there), what would they get out of it? Probably a hidding place for awhile until things would settle down, but not for long. Sometime after the war ended a US armed forces expedition went down there just to make sure this wasn´t happening. They came out a few months later claiming they had NOT found any Nazi bases... only pinguins. They encounterd a few difficulties which no one was prepared due to strong winds and weather and a few (I believe two) scouting airplanes crashed...killing some of its crew. Some guys (which I wouldn´t mention any names) decided to invent the story of "secret UFO bases" in the frozen continent just so they could CA$H in on the money from their books. BUT I have researched the stories and I haven´t found much to brag about. Let alone the UFO and secret Fourth Reich bases. Sorry guys... only pinguins like to live there.

BUT one cool place they would defenitly could have hidden out for a while would be... Argentina and Brazil or some of the other South American countries. Hell, I would even go as far as saying right here in my back yard in Portugal ! these are countries were no one would suspect of them going to, let alone trying to look in every nook and cranny for them. It took some men with alot of "patience" to track down some of the more "wanted" war criminals that were living in south America for along time. Just think of how many they haven´t found?! 8O I sometimes think that my next door neighboor here might be an ex-Bad guy from the Reich :P

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#5

Post by wenty » 28 May 2004, 12:46

I agree that the Nazis could never have possibly maintained a permanent base at Antarctica. They would, literally, "freeze to death" after a short period of time. Also, what possible use would a base at Antarctica be to the Germans? The closest land to Antarctica is Australia and New Zealand, and Japan were the ones who had their sights set on us, so if Germany tried anything that would have caused all sorts of problems within the Axis powers. That's my view of it anyway. Cheers. :)

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#6

Post by ohrdruf » 02 Jun 2004, 21:01

Ottens

I have just read a German language account of the German 1938 Antarctic Expedition. I think there is something here which needs to be looked at again.

Can you supply the origin of the quote you give, it contains something very strange?

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#7

Post by Ottens » 02 Jun 2004, 21:46

I assume you mean the quite by Admiral Byrd..?
"...it was necessary for the USA to take defensive actions against enemy air fighters which come for the polar regions..." and that in case of a new war "...the United States would be attacked by fighters that are able to fly from one pole to the other with incredible speed."
I don't recall exactly from which website I got it, but it's posted on several websites about the topic. Let me do a search...

Google search

Good site?

Or did you mean the quote by Admiral Donitz?
"the German submarine fleet is proud of having built for the Führer in another part of the world a Shangi-La on land, an impregnable fortress..."
In that case, look here...

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#8

Post by ohrdruf » 03 Jun 2004, 15:48

Dear Ottens

I mean the first quote "In 1938 Hitler sent......" I would be grateful if you would let me know where I can find it.

There is an alternative way of looking at things. I first became aware a few years ago that the end-history of the Second World War in Europe is not as historians have represented it. The centre of the entire mystery is Ohrdruf. All documents respecting Ohrdruf, the last Fuehrer-HQ, were classified in 1945 for at least 100 years. Certain strange phenomena were recorded at Ohrdruf, and were confirmed postwar by Russian scientists. We have little proof of the project, but every so often another coincidence joins the huge string of coincidences which go to make The Suspicion.

Once I know where the above quote came from, I will let you know the phenomenon reported in Antarctica by Admiral Byrd's Expedition which has attracted my attention.

Ohrdruf

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#9

Post by Andy H » 03 Jun 2004, 17:12

Lets ensure this stays within the thread parameters

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#10

Post by Ottens » 03 Jun 2004, 17:18

I'm sorry if you misunderstood, but that I wrote myself, and put between " because that's how the story goes (I copied the text from my site) and then I start explaining whether there could be true in this, so... as far as I know, it isn't exactly a quote by any person. Sorry.

I would be interested in what you mentioned.

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#11

Post by ohrdruf » 04 Jun 2004, 16:55

Dear Ottens

I am posting my reply in two parts. Part I today and Part II Monday after I have done a little more research.

PART I

(1) The research vessel was the Deutsche Lufthansa operated catapult ship "Schwabenland". It left Hamburg 17 December 1938, arrived at position 4 deg. 15' W, 69 deg. 10'S on 19 January 1939, and departed for Germany in mid-February 1939.

(2) The two Wal floatplanes carried made fifteen flights covering an area of 600,000 square miles and took 11,000 photos. In order to claim the territory of Neuschwabenland for the Third Reich, 100 pennons were distributed across the terrain and flags erected along the northern coast. The size of the territory is approximately twice that of the modern Federal Republic of Germany.

(3) The aircraft discovered mountains above 4,000 metres (Wohltat Massiv, Muehlig-Hoffmann Gebirge) and huge ice-free areas. The most interesting discovery lay between Wohltat Massiv and the coast, a mountainous region with numerous warm fresh water lakes and a mild climate, this due to volcanic activity originating from a large submarine trench.

(4) Engineer Assistant Heinz Siewert and No 1 Carpenter Richard Wehrend who were aboard "Schwabenland" on the original voyage stated subsequently that during 1939 they made numerous trips between Hamburg and Neuschwabenland transporting "all kinds of material". This suggests that some kind of permanently staffed base must have been set up.

(5) This idea is supported by the fact that when the freighter "Kandelfels" was converted to a raider in Germany in early 1940, she was named "Pinguin". In late 1940 she captured the Norwegian whaling fleet in Antarctica, and the possibility is that a plan existed from the beginning of her career to remove the Norwegian presence from the area so that whatever was being done should not be reported to the Allies.

(6) If there was a large scale underground base "211" as has been suggested, building materials and supplies would have had to come from a nearby friendly neutral such as Argentina where, in Patagonia, Germany had a massive espionage/supply network. There is intelligence evidence that throughout the war, two German freighters made regular short-duration voyages from near Santa Cruz to an unknown destination.

(7) My article on Kugelblitz is at EQUIPMENT entitled "Foo-Fighters were German: The Evidence". I draw your attention especially to the plasma physics project CHARITE-ANLAGE: this project had a rare side-effect mentioned in the Operation High Jump documents. I will describe this in Part II.

Ohrdruf

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#12

Post by ohrdruf » 04 Jun 2004, 19:42

I am able to complete Part II, the item which interested me was mis-stated.

PART II

(1) Immediately following the US Antarctic Expedition Operation High Jump, the following appeared in "El Mercurio" of Santiago, Chile on 5 March 1947 under the headline "On Board Mount Olympus on the High Seas" quoting Admiral Byrd in an interview with Lee van Atta:

"Admiral Byrd declared today that it was imperative for the US to initiate immediate defence measures against hostile regions. The Admiral further stated that he did not want to frighten anyone unduly but it was a bitter reality that in case of a new war the continental US would be attacked by flying objects which could fly from pole to pole at incredible speeds."

Admiral Byrd repeated the above points of view to a news conference held for International News Service.

(2) That the United States Air Force shared Admiral Byrd's suspicions about possible German post-war advanced flying machines is evident from the USAF Collection Memorandum five months later:

http://project1947.com/fig/schulgen.htm

(3) The phrase "from pole to pole" allows us to consider anew whether Neuschwabenland could have been a permanently manned German base at that time. The brackish water of the warm (30 degrees) lakes virtually confirmed that all had an outlet to the sea and would thus have been a haven for U-boats. The two ice-free mountain ranges in Neuschwabenland presented no worse an underground tunnelling project for Organisation Todt than anything they had encountered and overcome in Norway. The Germans were the world's experts at building and inhabiting underground metropoli

(4) Next we have to consider the form such a base might have taken. At the end of the war the United States gave ANYTHING concerning Ohrdruf a top secret classification for 100 years upwards. The fact that there had been substantial underground workings there, and that Ohrdruf was the location of the last Redoubt, was concealed absolutely. Fortunately for researchers, in 1962 the DDR had taken sworn depositions from all local residents during an investigation into wartime Ohrdruf, and upon the reunification of the two Germanys in 1989, these documents became available to all and sundry at Arnstadt municipal archive.

(5) From the Arnstadt documents it is clear that the CHARITE-ANLAGE unit operated in a three-story underground bunker with floors 70 x 20 metres. When working, the device emitted some kind of energy field which shut down all electrical equipment and non-diesel engines within a range of about eight miles. For this reason, even though Ohrdruf was crawling with SS, it was never photographed from the air nor bombed. Declassified USAF documents dated early 1945 admit the existence of an unknown energy field over Frankfurt/Main "and other locations" which "fantastic though it may appear" were able to "interfere with our aircraft engines at 30,000 feet."

(6) Ohrdruf rebuilt below Neuschwabenland during the last two years of the war would not have been difficult, and since CHARITE-ANLAGE had the highest priority of anything in the Third Reich, it seems likely that it must have been. Such a base would have been impregnable, for the suggestion is that the force-field worked in various ways favourable to the occupants.

Let me know if you require archive references for the material quoted.

Ohrdruf

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#13

Post by Ottens » 04 Jun 2004, 21:53

Let me first stay, that I certainly believe what you're saying, because I have no reason to suggest you might be making this all up, plus some of yours points I recognize from things I read earlier... Still, I would like to have reference material, if you have them, preferably documents (I doubt there are any pictures public at all), and, if you would allow me, I would like to post these at my website...

http://www.robsacc.nl/ottens go to the "1900-1950" section to see my page on Nazism... it is still under construction, though.

I do have some questions:

- You mentioned "Ohrdruf", but what exactly was the function of this bunker...?
- If there was to be a Nazi stronghold on the Antarctican continent, and the Nazis there were capable of "defeating" the American fleet... what would happen to them after that?

Oh, and about Nazi "UFOs", check out about Viktor Schauberger. :)

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#14

Post by ohrdruf » 05 Jun 2004, 23:33

Please let me have a list of the documents/references you require.

The bunker at Ohrdruf produced the ion-mercury material for foo-fighter propulsion.

Nazi UFOs have their purpose after a future cataclysmic event only.

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#15

Post by MAX_theHitMan » 06 Jun 2004, 02:23

HeHeHe amigo Ohrdruf.
How would you like to go with me to Antartica to find these secret "Nazi/Ufo bases" 8O :)

I have read everything you have stated. It all makes a wonderful fictional movie, or a great bestseller book for the new York Times best-book of the month. But to tell you the truth...there is no proof to it.
Oh by the way, When you mentioned,
"The bunker at Ohrdruf produced the ion-mercury material for foo-fighter propulsion."
Ion-Mercury is the stuff used to make VIMANAS fly back in ancient india. It´s NOT a new idea, or story. Research it, you will see what I am talking about.
Nazi UFOs have their purpose after a future cataclysmic event only.
...is the end of the world coming soon? Gracias por la informácion 8) :D

But I bet you don´t know the US and UK Air-Forces were (or are) using Antartica air space to test out their advanced secret Flying-disc-shaped aircraft, didn´t you ?:wink: It´s all called project "Aurora" and another project is called "Wormhole". I always like a good government conspiracy-theory story.

Ohrdruf rebuilt below Neuschwabenland during the last two years of the war would not have been difficult, and since CHARITE-ANLAGE had the highest priority of anything in the Third Reich, it seems likely that it must have been. Such a base would have been impregnable, for the suggestion is that the force-field worked in various ways favourable to the occupants.
You keep mentioning this "secret-base" OHRDRUF. You sem to know more about this Bunker-thing than the rest of us who have investigated world war II sites and papers. You defenitly got to reveal your secrets to me. 8O I want to know all about it. AND what was really going on there. Any documents or pictures available??
If you don´t have any...I will make some for you.HeHeHe
I will even make you a saucer blueprint like Bob Lazars "Sports model" and put swastikas on it and force-field reactors like the Klingons spaceships....CooooL 8) The "CHARITE-ANLAGE" KaputWunderwaffen

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