'Black Code'

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Englander
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'Black Code'

#1

Post by Englander » 01 Jun 2004, 23:48

How significant was the 'Black Code' to Rommel in the desert campaigns?

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#2

Post by Christoph Awender » 02 Jun 2004, 00:42

Hello!

What was the "Black code"?

\Christoph


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#3

Post by Panzermahn » 02 Jun 2004, 03:44

Do you mean the codes transmitted to US by Lt. Col Bonnie Fellars who was the american military attache in Cairo which were broken by the Germans?

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#4

Post by Comando Supremo » 02 Jun 2004, 03:53

Joachim Chan wrote:Do you mean the codes transmitted to US by Lt. Col Bonnie Fellars who was the american military attache in Cairo which were broken by the Germans?
On December 8, 1941, a group of the Sezione Prelevamento (Withdrawal Section) of Italian Army intelligence (SIM Servizio Informazioni Militari) lead by Maj. (Carabinieri) Talamo broke into the U.S. embassy in Rome and stole the code book known as the "Black Code". They photograph the codes and put it back in the safe. These photos were used to decipher top-secret messages sent from Cairo to Washington D.C. about British strength and weaknesses in Africa. This discovery was one of the main reasons that gave Rommel the early successes in the desert war.

The Black Code was always managed by the Italians, who gave the Germans only the decypted messages in regards to actions in North Africa.

Comando Supremo: Italy at War

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#5

Post by Englander » 02 Jun 2004, 14:11

Joachim Chan wrote:Do you mean the codes transmitted to US by Lt. Col Bonnie Fellars who was the american military attache in Cairo which were broken by the Germans?
Yes, but as stated the Italians did the sly deed.
This discovery was one of the main reasons that gave Rommel the early successes in the desert war.
Ciao, Comando Supremo.
This is a very important point. Rommel lovers here tend to forget!

Was this Col Fellars anti-British? Was there more sinister motives at hand, or was he just a DUMB ass?

Who was the British general ambushed by the luftwaffe and killed? ( similar event like the ambush of Yamamoto)

It should be pointed out the British had 'Ultra'..But this took weeks to decipher..Also the British were quite lax on their security methods, radio traffic etc.

Thanks to Americans, Rommel could have access to very sensitive information on his desk within the day!
Last edited by Englander on 02 Jun 2004, 14:27, edited 1 time in total.

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#6

Post by Andreas » 02 Jun 2004, 14:18

The general was Gott, on his way to take over command of 8th Army after the Auk had been sacked.

Unlike the USAF in the case of Yamamoto, one could argue the Luftwaffe did not do their groundpounder colleagues a favour though. :)

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#7

Post by DrG » 02 Jun 2004, 15:49

Englander wrote:Yes, but as stated the Italians did the sly deed.
It seems that the "Black Code" was decoded indipendently by Italy and by Germany. There is a really excellent article about Rommel and the intelligence in North Africa, I suggest it: http://africanhistory.about.com/library ... rtfox1.htm. By the way, the Britons understood of the knowledge of the Black code by the Axis thanks to an Enigma message sent to Rommel on 24 April 1942 (read at the bottom of this page: http://codebrkr.infopages.net/messages.htm).
For the Italian secret operation, known to the vast public for the first time on 17 Nov. 1970 when the BBC broadcasted an interview to Gen. Cesare Amé, commander of the Italian intelligence service of the Army (SIM = Servizio Informazioni Militare), there is good Italian article in the official page of Carabinieri http://www.carabinieri.it/editoria/cara ... imenti.htm (you may translate it in English using http://world.altavista.com).
The operation, as told by Comando Supremo, was made by Italian Carabinieri; then, the cyphered dispatches were intercepted by the radio station of the SIM in Forte Braschi (near Rome), then deciphered and sent to the Italian Comando Supremo and to the German OB Süd in Frascati. There they were read by Gen. Kesselring and then re-transmitted by the German radio station of Monte Cavo to Gen. Rommel.
By the way, there has been some polemics with Stephen Budiansky's "Battle of Wits" here in Italy recently, because in his book (usually well researched) he talked about only the German decodings of the "Black Book" and not about the Italian (see the second article of this Italian page: http://digilander.libero.it/folgore4a/Stupidaggini.htm).
About the German decoding of the Black Book, I've found these info (from: http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=339504):
The OKW/Chi cryptoanalysts had in 1941 cracked the "Black" code used by US diplomats. Due to this, a huge interception facility in Lauf/Bavaria could decrypt communication between US diplomats and Washington DC. The specialists in Lauf concentrated on the messages relating to the African theater of war, so they could supply Feldmarschall Erwin Rommel with valuable information on Allied plans and operations. It is a noteworthy footnote that the Germans also received the "Black" code from the Italians: Italian spies had photographed the code tables in the US embassy in Rome in September 1941. While the Germans appreciated this gift from their ally Italy, they did not let them know that they were
already able to decipher "Black" code messages.
Was this Col Fellars anti-British? Was there more sinister motives at hand, or was he just a DUMB ass?
Col. Fellers was an outspoken anti-British, but his loyalty has never been questioned; moreover the "Black Code" had been stolen from the American embassy in Rome, thus the man that was guilty of negligence was Col. Norman Fiske, the attaché in Italy. But, given that the codes of all the foreign embassies in Italy except the British and the Soviet had been stolen by the SIM before the war, Col. Fiske wasn't worse than many others.

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#8

Post by Andy H » 02 Jun 2004, 22:35


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#9

Post by FB » 08 Jun 2004, 08:55

It should also be added, IIRC, that the British were able do decipher the German code, but had difficulties with the ones used by the Italians for their communication between North Africa and the Peninsula. The thing is that the Germans imposed their codes as standard (i.e. it was theirs codes to be used), thus unknowingly opening a deep hole in the secrecy of the warfare.

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#10

Post by alf » 08 Jun 2004, 14:14

The code was important to Rommel, it ended in late June 1942 when Fellers returned to the US (he subsequentially went on to serve under MacArthur in the Pacific)

I am not sure he was anti British, (though definitely anti Australian :P - from one of his memo's). He was tasked with providing a critique of British Army operations especially armour and he did his job thoroughly, the side effect unknown to him was also allowing Rommel detailed insights into the 8th Army. He used the codes provided to him by his own State Department, so he isnt to blame

The other critical intelligence blow to Rommel occured in early July 1942 with the complete loss of his crack 621st Radio Intercept Company to a raid by the 2/24 Battalion 2nd AIF

In the space of about 10 days Rommel was completely blinded for intelligence, his radio listening was captured and Fellers was silenced, it showed in his lack of tactical brillance from that point on.

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#11

Post by Andreas » 27 Nov 2007, 12:34

There is a good article about the use of intel in the desert campaign on p.191 of this issue of the Royal Signals Journal:

http://www.army.mod.uk/linkedfiles/roya ... ring06.pdf

All the best

Andreas

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#12

Post by Michael Emrys » 28 Nov 2007, 04:24

DrG wrote:Col. Fellers was an outspoken anti-British...
Do you have a source for that? I am puzzled because the accounts I have read so far indicate that he was very popular among the British officers of Middle East Command, often sat in on their discussions and accompanied units in the field where he was also made welcome.

Michael

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Re: 'Black Code'

#13

Post by clean32 » 16 Dec 2023, 15:26

hello all, this is my first post, i have registered because a topic close to me and well researched by me popped up as having been mentioned in this forum.
i have read all the posts and most are quite good.
but if you can handle my poor written english i will full the gaps and correct errors and also point out the propaganda and hiding of facts done at the time and over the years.


before Col. Fellers arrived the 8th never lost a battle. upon his arrival the 8th never won a battle. after his removal the 8th never lost a battle.
that sentence alone sums the damage done by the germans and italian having access to the american Black code.
but there is more, another code named ciro and another story with that. ( will clear up some confusion)

so working from the end story. a couple of weeks before the battle for crete. the british finally got access to enigma. they did and they didn't.
they did because now they could read the german mail.
they didn't because Bletchley park had to now be reorganised from an outfit trying to read the mail, to an outfit that could read ALL the mail. something that was never achieved.

so there was quite some time before a strange message was deciperd and then another 4 days before it was realised the significance of that signal. and then another week before the REAL understanding of that signal was realised.
that signal contained information about Malta. the strength of spitfires, and other spy observer information. that was the first realisation. that there must be a spy on malta. observed information.
But wiser brains were engaged, part of that message mentions that the wellington bombers were to be relocated due the expected incase in bombing.

one word, " expected" and a date. the date of the signal. predated the date of the british signal sent to malta, 2 days in fact.
worce that date was the date of the decision being made to relocate the wellington bombers.

so where was this decision made " Cairo "
two intelligence officers were sent out to look into it.

in the meantime, resources were redirected to intercept signals from this obscure new station in Bavaria.

more signals were intercepted, all with the same quality of information. but then one signal had an opinion piece added. our tanks arrived without motors installed.
again One word " our"
now there had been a delivery of 22 stuart tanks and they had arrived with no motors. obviously this was pre lend lease, paid for in gold so the british were not happy
but once again, the date. this signal was sent before a signal to Britain had been sent on the topic. inshort the british command got the news from the germans.
but the word Our, gave it all away. there was only one american and he had been shown all courtesy by the british as his role as observer required.


and this is where the rbitus are quite good, he was put under surveillance. some misinformation was feed to him which was duly reported, intercepted and thus confirmed. the last question was How.

the soviets.
the soviets had at some previous date passed on that they believed the Nazis had a yugoslavian spy ring working in Cairo. but not much more than that.

now the british were watching Bonner, going through his rubbish etc. from that the discovered he was a sloppy bugger leaving his encoding notes in is waste paper. they also rounded up some yugoslavians which ended up with identifying a spy but missed his as he disappeared.

the british concluded that Bonner was the source of the leak. that Bonners lack of security enabled enough information to get into the hands of the germans to be able to reproduce the crib used by Bonner in his signals to the american embassy in Rome.

that is the story of the ciro code ( NOT THE BLACK CODE)

Now the brits informed the americans who instantly responded " not us it must be you limey bastards" but 6 days latter the american finally agreed that this was the case and the code was changed, unfortunaly the code Key was sent to the american embassy in rome and then hand delivered to Bonner. it was sent in Black Code.

Black Code
someone else has correctly posted, that the american embassy was broken into, the code book taken photoed and returned.
what is not said is that the safe was not broken into because they had the Keys.
they got the keys from an Italian cleaner, who after an evening of Vino, and a coupkle of well endows prostatues, plus a pile of cash. lost his keys for a few hour's. now think about this, local staff had the key to the safe. why?
well the ambassador's wife Caroline, keeped her jewelry in the same safe and would send local staff down to fetch it as needed.


now some confusing bits.

the americans send a message to bonner ver the black code saying " change codes here is the new one"
the italians think they will steal a march on the germans have a minister announce on italian radio " we have been reading the american messages from the beginning"

ths sent the americans into a spin what was going on. OH he must be talking about the Ciro code.

Ahem, the british are still intercepting signals with valuable information. but it has changed. soon understood that these signals were now a english - italian - german translations, which indicated that the germans were now getting information from the italians.
so the black code was changed.


the cover up
Bonner was frozen out by the british. so he could not do his job, thus he was sent back to the USA. promoted and sent to australia to work with MacArthur.

now think this through. the aussies having held onto Tobruk, relieved then went to syria, before returning to australia the Kokoda.
Imagion General Blamey who brought the aussies back and is now expected to work with MacA. Blamey is introduced to MacAs staff and there is Bonner. the author of so many Australian deaths!

some american cooked up some story that they were informed by someone in the Vatican that the Italian had broken the black code.

and that's the simple version

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Re: 'Black Code'

#14

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 17 Dec 2023, 02:36

The inability of the Brits to trust US information security colored operations and strategy through the war. I've traced a few bits of the Brits 'clean up' of their info security in 1942. marks in his memoir 'Between Silk and Cyanide' presents his PoV of that. The battle of the codes in the battle of the Atlantic was another. Theres a large body of literature on all this that has emerged in the last four or five decades. half dozen books representing a small fragment of this written work sits on my shelf. But thinking all this over its strikes me as a odd that complete replacements of codes or encryption systems were seldom done as a routine. It occurred usually if at all when it was clear the code had been compromised.

Certainly the logistics of it are intimidating, but the alternate is a risk as well.

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Re: 'Black Code'

#15

Post by Urmel » 18 Dec 2023, 22:42

clean32 wrote:
16 Dec 2023, 15:26
before Col. Fellers arrived the 8th never lost a battle. upon his arrival the 8th never won a battle. after his removal the 8th never lost a battle.
that sentence alone sums the damage done by the germans and italian having access to the american Black code.
I'm sorry, but this is utter nonsense.

1) Bonner Fellers arrived before 8th Army existed.

2) The British Middle East Command, which included the western desert force, lost plenty of battles all out of their own incompetence before the Black Code was broken.

I am posting this to correct the nonsense being posted, and I am not going to bother with the remainder of the stream of consciousness. I am also putting you on my ignore list, so don't bother responding to me, I won't read it.
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

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