Australian terms

[Berichter]

I've seen on some of the posts here that there are acronyms like AIF and AIB. What are these terms?

Cordially,

Berichter

[Eden Zhang]

Australian Infantry Force and Australian Infantry Battalion?

These are just guesses though.

[Phil V]

AIF

Australian Imperial Force (Aust Force WW1 era)

AIB

Australian Infantry Battalion (current term)

Allied Intelligence Bureau (WW2 era)

MB

[e.polis]

G'day

AIF stands for Australian Imperial Force and was allocated to the Australian Army that was sent overseas in WW1. When WW2 started a second AIF was raised and consequently it was called the Second AIF and the WW1 AIF was refered to as the First AIF. All the original Battalions and other units were reformed and allocated unit numbers such as the 2/16 Australian Infantry Battalion. To confuse matters even further there was a 16 Battalion also serving in Australia as part of the Militia, these Militia units were not available for service outside Australian territory. However Papua & New Guinea was an Australian territory and when the Japs invaded, raw Milita units were sent there to fight. Many of these "chokos" as they were called distinguished themselves and stopped the Jap advance durind the battle of Kokoda. It may be interesting to note that this was also the first time during WW2 that the Japs were stopped by an allied force and the advance turned into a retreat.

Regards e.polis

[alf]

e-polis did an excellent post

To confuse the issue even more there were the AIF troops in WW2, , the Militia - Choko's (chocolate soldiers) and the Rainbows - Militia troops who transferred to the AIF but were usually retained in their old Militia units.

[der Bilderstürmer]

G'day

Many of these "chokos" as they were called distinguished themselves and stopped the Jap advance durind the battle of Kokoda. It may be interesting to note that this was also the first time during WW2 that the Japs were stopped by an allied force and the advance turned into a retreat.

Regards e.polis

Japanese officers said they retreated because their supply lines and bases were constantly bombed and strafed by the USAAF.

The Australians generally received a drubbing until they received air support.

[alf]

The Australians generally received a drubbing until they received air support

Some facts to support your statement please,
a US link http://www.usswashington.com/dl06se42.htm.

The Milne Bay battle in New Guinea ends in Australian
victory, with the Japanese evacuating 600 survivors. They leave
behind 350 stranded or dead on Goodenough Island, and 300 drowned
when the RAAF sink a transport, and 700 in land fighting.

It is the first complete land victory over Japan since the
war began, and boosts Allied morale worldwide.

Gen. Bill Slim, in Burma, commanding a corps, writes,

"If the Australians, in conditions very like ours, had done it, so
could we. Some of us may forget that of all the Allies it was the
Australian soldiers who first broke the spell of invincibility of
the Japanese Army; those of us who were in Burma have cause to
remember."

Incredible, Gen. Douglas MacArthur sends a memo to
Washington deriding the efficiency of Australian troops.

Kind of says it all really

[der Bilderstürmer]

The Australians generally received a drubbing until they received air support

Some facts to support your statement please,

The Milne Bay battle in New Guinea ends in Australian victory, with the Japanese evacuating 600 survivors. They leave behind 350 stranded or dead on Goodenough Island, and 300 drowned when the RAAF sink a transport, and 700 in land fighting. It is the first complete land victory over Japan since the war began, and boosts Allied morale worldwide

Several facts support my statement: The Australians made no progress at Milne Bay or the Kokoda Trail until after the Japanese were repeatedly attacked by the 5th Air Force, who also delivered supplies to the Australians where possible. As the maps clearly indicate, the Australians were pushed back steadily from late July to late September 1942.

And, you obviously overlooked that that the "Australian" Milne Force, some 9,458 men under General Clowes, included 1,364 Americans. Most of them were engineers and antiaircraft troops.

Gen. Bill Slim, in Burma, commanding a corps, writes,

"If the Australians, in conditions very like ours, had done it, so
could we. Some of us may forget that of all the Allies it was the
Australian soldiers who first broke the spell of invincibility of
the Japanese Army; those of us who were in Burma have cause to
remember."

Incredible, Gen. Douglas MacArthur sends a memo to
Washington deriding the efficiency of Australian troops.

Kind of says it all really

What Slim said is rubbish, and no one should forget it. It was a joint effort in every sense, and the Australian commander was a drunk. THAT, says it all.

MacArthur has outshone George Marshall, Ike Eisenhower, Patton, Montgomery, and all other American and British generals.
-- Field Marshall Alan Brooke

Blamey is not an impressive specimen. He looks entirely drink sodden and somewhat repulsive.
-- Field Marshall Alan Brooke

[Zygmunt]

And, you obviously overlooked that that the "Australian" Milne Force, some 9,458 men under General Clowes, included 1,364 Americans.

I think that if of 9,458 men, only 1,364 are Americans, then the force still qualifies as Australian, no? Of course, with an appreciated American presence, but still Australian.

Zygmunt

[e.polis]

G'day

Gentlemen please..........you are carring on like a bunch of old tarts at the govenors ball.

All I stated was a fact and that is that the first time the Japs were stopped was at the battle of Isurava in August 1942 and turned back was because the Aussies stood their ground and constantly beat of Jap attacks. 400 unblooded raw Aussies who had only been in PNG for six weeks stopped the advance of 14,300 crack Jap veteran fighting troops and sent them scurring back down the Kokoda Track, never happened to the Japs before and no US Airforce in sight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Also when the Yanks did commit, a few months in November 1942 (US 126 th Regiment) they stumbled out of the jungle 42 days later with out firing a shot and were unfit for combat for 3 months.
Mac Arthur sent Gen Bob Eichelberger to take command of the 32 US Division and close in battle with the Japs at Buna, well that ended up as a comedy show with a brilliant display of US cowadice, again Aussie troops had to engage the enemy and fight them alone while Eichelberger reported to Mac Arthur that he was unable to get his men to fight. He wrote to Mac Arthur on 24 December 1942 and said " I have seven line companies and committed five for the attack, they refused, this was the all time low ebb of my life" Eventually Brig George Wooten (Aust Army) led an attack of combined Aust and some US troops on 2 Jan 1943, Eichelberger wrote of the Australians to Mac Arthur " I would say no finer soldiers ever fought on a dersperate battlefield" he also added that no other troops can compare with the Australians who made the frontal attack at Cape Endaiadere while his troops floundered two miles away.
Just to add another spanner to the works ......the first time the German Military was stopped was by Australians at Tobruk for nine months, even Rommel admitted this, only when the Aussies handed over Tobruk to the British did it fall to the Germans..........sorry no US Airforce there either certainly no yank diggers.

Regards

e.polis ex Aussie Digger

[der Bilderstürmer]

G'day Gentlemen please..........you are carring on like a bunch of old tarts at the govenors ball. All I stated was a fact and that is that the first time the Japs were stopped was at the battle of Isurava in August 1942 and turned back was because the Aussies stood their ground and constantly beat of Jap attacks. 400 unblooded raw Aussies who had only been in PNG for six weeks stopped the advance of 14,300 crack Jap veteran fighting troops and sent them scurring back down the Kokoda Track, never happened to the Japs before and no US Airforce in sight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A fantasy that was rubbished by your own historians, years ago. John Robertson in Australia at War 1939-1945 said in summary:

In all their victories against the Japanese, the Australians were numerically superior...In every case when the Australian soldier was winning a battle, the air was dominated by the Allies.

Not surprisingly, the USAAF agreed.

Also when the Yanks did commit, a few months in November 1942 (US 126 th Regiment) they stumbled out of the jungle 42 days later with out firing a shot and were unfit for combat for 3 months. Mac Arthur sent Gen Bob Eichelberger to take command of the 32 US Division and close in battle with the Japs at Buna, well that ended up as a comedy show with a brilliant display of US cowadice, again Aussie troops had to engage the enemy and fight them alone while Eichelberger reported to Mac Arthur that he was unable to get his men to fight. He wrote to Mac Arthur on 24 December 1942 and said " I have seven line companies and committed five for the attack, they refused, this was the all time low ebb of my life"

You're being disingenuous again. The 126th was not the only regiment in the division, and General Blamey accused Australian troops of "cowardice" a short time earlier. The comedy show was started by the Diggers, before the 32nd Division arrived in New Guinea. I wonder how many hundreds of miles the Aussies would have to retreat before you are convinced.

The Digger record to date was unimpressive. The 8th Division was destroyed on Singapore. On Rabaul, Ambon and Timor the Australians gave up after little fighting, except for the 2/2 Independent Company.

Eventually Brig George Wooten (Aust Army) led an attack of combined Aust and some US troops on 2 Jan 1943, Eichelberger wrote of the Australians to Mac Arthur " I would say no finer soldiers ever fought on a dersperate battlefield" he also added that no other troops can compare with the Australians who made the frontal attack at Cape Endaiadere while his troops floundered two miles away."

But the Australians floundered longer. All you have to do is follow the map to see the steady withdrawl by the Diggers -- which lasted almost two months -- and which was not reversed until the USAAF took its toll on the enemy's umbilical cord.

Just to add another spanner to the works ......the first time the German Military was stopped was by Australians at Tobruk for nine months, even Rommel admitted this, only when the Aussies handed over Tobruk to the British did it fall to the Germans

Rommel said that he didn't capture Tobruk then because most of the attackers were poorly trained Italians, not Germans. The Australians were no match for elite German troops on Crete, and they never faced Waffen-SS Divisions.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

[Phil V]

Thank God for America.

You guys are just the best!

MB

[e.polis]

I just love fishing and it looks as if I have caught one with his finger in you can beleive what you want Mr America

[bullet]

Hi all

This "Der Bildersturmer" chap seems awfully anti Australian and British for that matter and builds his case on American superiority by dealing in very strong propoganda rubbish that the USA pushed out in the 1950's that justified their blunders during WW2. From what is noted in history, Australian and US troops never fought along side each other in the Pacific in WW2 after Buna. Mac Arthur forbade it because the Australians were superior warriors, suffered less casualties and always fought untill the fight was over. They were in the later part of the war relegated to less glorious encounters just so the USA forces would gain the glory and achive Mac Arthurs promise of returning to the Philipines and establish a US empire in the SW Pacific that they had just chased the Japanese out of.

Bullet

[der Bilderstürmer]

"Der Bildersturmer" chap seems awfully anti Australian and British for that matter and builds his case on American superiority by dealing in very strong propoganda rubbish that the USA pushed

I do find it amusing that the truth is making some of you squirm.

By the way, the UK requested that Australian troops be sent to Borneo. And it was the UK that got angry when the Australians asked for a stake in administration of postwar Japan; separate from British control. Alan Brooke likened Australia to a petulant child for even suggesting it.

From what is noted in history, Australian and US troops never fought along side each other in the Pacific in WW2 after Buna

Except for those times when they fought alongside each other after Buna.

the Australians were superior warriors

The Australians were mostly incompetent militia who were prone to panic. Without overwhelming numerical superiority in the air and on the ground, the Australians had no hope of defeating the Japanese.

suffered less casualties and always fought untill the fight was over

The Australian 8th Division was completely destroyed in Singapore. "Fighting until the fight was over" better describes their opponents.

They were in the later part of the war relegated to less glorious encounters just so the USA forces would gain the glory

My lord... if this is the kind of hooey they teach in Aussie schools, it's no surprise you are badly informed. In truth, the Australian government wanted its army close to home where it could serve regional political interests. That is why ground units were recalled from the Middle East.