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Helicopters in WW2?

Discussions on all (non-biographical) aspects of the Luftwaffe air units and general discussions on the Luftwaffe.

Helicopters in WW2?

Postby Shake-Speer on 16 Jul 2004 01:17

If I remember correctly the helicopter was invented by Sikorski in the 30’s. But I have never seen a picture of or read about helicopters being used in the 2nd World War. The movie Where Eagles Dare is probably the only place where I have seen a supposedly WW2 era helicopter.
Were helicopters used? If so, by what side and what were they used for? Wouldn’t helicopters have been perfect for rescuing downed pilots in the sea or for lightning raids like Skorzeny’s rescuing of Mussolini? It does seem a bit odd that the germans who were so advanced in the field of military technology (Me 262, V2 etc) didn’t find a good use for the helicopter.
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Postby bryson109 on 16 Jul 2004 01:32

Off hand the use was very limited, I know they were used for U-boat reccon but that's all I can think of right now.

Some links showing some pics of German WWII helicopters.

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Waffen/Fl282.htm
http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Waffen/FA223.htm
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Postby bryson109 on 16 Jul 2004 01:35

Also try here"

click on "Hubschrauber" for pics and info (although it is in German)

http://www.luftarchiv.com/
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Postby Shake-Speer on 16 Jul 2004 02:35

Thank you. Any information about the other countries involved in the carnage? BTW, the German won’t be much of a problem.


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1960's secret movie agent, anyone? :D :lol:
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Postby Tony Williams on 16 Jul 2004 05:46

The earlier pioneers of the helicopter were actually the French. The first helo flew in 1907, designed by Frenchman Paul Cornu, but the first one with any significant performance was probably the Breguet Gyroplane Laboratoire. This had a modern configuration (although with an ungainly, test-bed appearance) with two coaxial rotors, and first flew in 1935.

Developments also started in Russia in the 1930s, but at this point Germany enters the scene and becomes the leader in the development of helicopters for the next decade. The Focke-Achgelis Fa 61 looked like an autogyro except that it had two small rotors mounted side-by-side on outriggers, and these were powered in flight; the small propeller in front of the engine was solely for cooling it. The Fa 61 first flew in 1936 and a year later was setting records; a speed of 122 km/h, an altitude of 2,439m, a closed-circuit distance of 80 km and a duration of over 80 minutes. By the outbreak of war, altitude and distance records had been increased to 3,427m and 230 km respectively. The controllability of this helicopter was spectacularly demonstrated by Hanna Reitsch, who in February 1938 famously flew it around inside Berlin's Deutschlandhalle during a Nazi rally.

The American firm of Sikorsky (established by the Ilya Muromets designer, who had emigrated) managed to follow through a continuous development programme which commenced with the VS-300 of 1940, produced its first practical machine, the R-4, and continues to the present day. The R-4, a small utility machine, was ordered by the US military in 1942 and was in mass production by early 1944. It provided valuable experience but was mainly used operationally for search and rescue missions. It was apparently used for armament trials in 1942 but its instability made it a poor gunnery platform.

At that time Germany was well in advance. Flettner actually achieved the helicopter's first quantity production order, from the Kriegsmarine in 1940, for the Fl 265, which had two intermeshing rotors. This was succeeded by the two-seat Fl 282 Kolibri (humming bird), which was used operationally in the Second World War, both for general liaison purposes and from various ships, including cruisers and merchant vessels, for scouting and anti-submarine reconnaissance in the North, Baltic, Aegean and Mediterranean Seas. Although 1,000 were ordered, only about 24 were completed by the end of the war. It was partnered by the big two-rotor Focke-Achgelis Fa 223 Drache (kite) transport helicopter, of which perhaps only a dozen or so were completed. It could carry four passengers or lift 900 kg, and was the first helicopter to carry a gun armament. A 7.9 mm MG 15 could be fitted into the transparent nose for self-defence purposes, as it was intended to be used for potentially hazardous tasks such as rescuing downed pilots or inserting special forces.

This info comes from 'Flying Guns – the Modern Era: Development of Aircraft Guns, Ammunition and Installations since 1945' which has a chapter on military helicopter development.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and Discussion forum
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Postby David Lehmann on 16 Jul 2004 07:00

Not exactly an helicopter but a gyroplane in French air force in 1939/40 in several observation unit, the Lioré & Olivier LeO C.30 / C.301. This one was built by Lioré & Olivier but is related to Avro and an Italian manufacturer.

Regards,

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Postby Patrice on 16 Jul 2004 08:32

Hello.
A link about the US helicoptere during WWII.
and A picture of this link.
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Postby Topspeed on 16 Jul 2004 09:54

Anyone flown this byrd deserves to be called a true birdman : :)
:lol:

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Helicopters in the Third Reich

Postby paul.i.w on 16 Jul 2004 12:16

There is some information on the development and use of helicopters in Hanna Reitsch's autobiography. She was involved in the devlopment work of one type (the FA223? - can't quite remember). She also practiced landing it on tall buildings in Berlin towards the end of the war, perhaps as a possible escape route for Hitler. Her navigation skills from this helped her when she had to fly in with von Grein in late April 1945.

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Postby ohrdruf on 16 Jul 2004 15:44

Anton Flettner first published his ideas for a helicopter in 1924.

He failed to interest the Luftwaffe in the concept because it was too slow for useful operational work, but the German Navy recognised its value as a naval scout and observer aircraft from the beginning, funding Flettner's work from 1938 onwards. In that year he had six models under construction, the first Fl 265 having its maiden flight in May 1939. The machine had a single engine driving two intermeshing, contra-rotating motors, on either side of which twin-bladed rotors were located on shafts. There followed a larger and more refined version, the Fl 282 "Kolibri" ("humming bird") with seats for two pilots. Its 150hp Siemens and Halske SH14A drive provided a top speed of 150 km/hr.

Germany was the pioneer in military helicopter development, and in 1942 the Kolibri was the first helicopter anywhere to enter operational military service. It was very agile, and in a 20-minute trial proved able to elude two attacking fighters.


The Fl 282 was the most advanced WWII helicopter development. On early 1941 testing of the 30 prototypes commenced aboard warships, including the light cruiser "Koeln" in the Baltic, the minelayer "Drache" in the Mediterranean and from 17 April the ex-Yugoslav repair ship "Zmaj". "Koeln" received a 15 sq/m wooden helicopter pad on the roof of "B" turret during a refit.

Trials from warships exceeded all expectations and were continued in the Baltic into 1942 aboard "Koeln"and in 1943 from the U-Jaeger UJ-1210, the training boat for the Anti-submarine School. When funds finally became available for mass-production in 1944, the Kriegsmarine and Luftwaffe ordered 1,000, but only about thirty were completed.

By Hitler's order, a transport helicopter flew a secret operation froom Berlin to Danzig between 26 February and 5 Match 1945, returned to Werder near Berlin on 11 March 1945 after a flight of 1675 kms.

Source: Koop & Schmolke: German Light Cruisers of WWII; Greenhill Books, London, 2002: NIP ISBN 1-55750-310-9
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Postby Shake-Speer on 16 Jul 2004 16:49

Thank you all for some very good answers
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Postby panzertruppe2001 on 16 Jul 2004 18:17

The allied used six experimental helicopters in Burma with the Chindits in 1944

Source: Chinditas, la Gran Incursion, Michael Calbert. Ed San Martin
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Postby Juha Tompuri on 16 Jul 2004 22:53

Shake-Speer,


Something from the past.
This: http://www.helis.com/stories/burma45.php
From: viewtopic.php?t=28700&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight

Regards, Juha
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Postby Timo on 17 Jul 2004 19:35

From: http://www.germanvtol.com

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Fa 223

By this time World War II had been underway for nearly a year, and the German military saw the potential for such a craft. The RLM (German Air Ministry) redesignated the Fa-266 as the Fa 223 Drache (Kite), but as with many potentially advantageous aviation projects, the Fa-223 had to wait its turn in an industry inundated with new concepts and unprepared for a long war.
In October 1940, Karl Bode flew the Fa 223 V1 to the RLM flight test center at Rechlin where he demonstrated its startling performance by setting a new world helicopter speed record of 113 mph., a rate of climb record of 1732 feet per minute, and a new altitude record of 23,294 feet. By comparison, America's 1944 Sikorsky R-4B had a top speed of only 75 mph. and a ceiling of just 8000 feet.
The RLM responded to the Rechlin demonstration by procuring 30 pre-production Fa-223s for development and service evaluation, and ordering the long lead time materials for a further 70. unfortunately, in wartime Germany where priorities for vital materials were frequently switched according to whim or political influence, the Fa-223 was destined for the lowest priorities.
The Drache was to be developed in five versions: the Fa223A anti s-submarine helicopter with the capacity of carrying either two 250 kg 9550 pound) bombs or depth charge; the Fa-223B observation/reconnaissance helicopter; the Fa-223C search and rescue helicopter; the Fa-223D transport helicopter; and the Fa-223E dual control pilot training helicopter.
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After making 115 flights the first protype was destroyed on February 5, 1941, when a power failure occurred in a low altitude hover. The ship struck the ground so heavily that both outriggers failed. Shortly afterwards, the second prototype, the Fa-233 V2 f(D-OCEW) was completed. While the first prototype had a nose with outward angled side windows, the second prototype had a glass nose made of flat glass panels similar to contemporary German bombers and, despite civil registration, had a nose mount for a 7.9mm machine gun.
The third prototype Fa-223E V3 was built to the pre-production Fa-223E-O specification. By this time it had been decided to build a single multi-purpose version, instead of five different specialized versions. Auxilary equipment that could be fitted were bomb racks, camersa, electric motor driven winch, rescue cradle, 300 liter (79 gallon0 drop tank, and wire laying equipment.
The Fa-223 was like the FW-61, primarily constructed of welded steel tubing, with fabric covering the fuselage and tail surfaces. the nine cylinder BMW Bramo 323 radial engine was located behind the cabin and was fan cooled. The engine had a 1000 horsepower rating for one minute, a 820 hp. rating for 5 minutes, and a 620 hp. max. continuous rating.
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In June 1942, the second and third prototypes along with seven partially completed pre-production machines were destroyed by Allied bombers. A new factory location was setup in Laupheim in southern Germany, with production work resuming in February 1943.
Karl Bode flew the first Laupheim built Fa-223E-O on June 21, 1943. This was the V11 which was finished in military coloring with the markings DM+SO. This ship was extensively filmed while making demonstrations of the helicopter's utility. The V11 exhibited its carrying ability by lifting such items as Fieseler Storch observation aircraft, an Me-109 fuselage, a one ton engine, and a Volkswagon military staff car.
Fa-223 V12 was designated in September 1943, to rescue Benito Mussolini from his mountain prison. At the last moment, however the helicopter had mechanical problems, and a Fieseler 156 Storch had to be substituted for the attempt.
Ship V12 would later be lost in an attempt to rescue 17 people trapped by heavy snow on Mont Blanc in France. The helicopter had been flown on the long cross-country trip from Germany to carry out this humanitarian mission, and while attempting a landing on the mountain, a mechanical failure resulted in a rotor disintegrating and the ship hitting an embankment, killing the crew.
In the spring of 1944 the V11 crashed while trying to recover a Do-217 bomber from the Vehner Moor. the Fa-233 V14 was then used to recover both the Do-217 and the unlucky V11. Two Focke Achgelis mechanics along with Luftwaffe personnel disassembled the two downed aircraft. Karl Bode along with Lt. Helmut Gerstenhauer, the Luftwaffe's most experienced helicopter pilot, made ten flights on may 11, 1944, followed by further flights the next day. The major components of both crashed aircraft were picked up from the marsh and carried out to a road where they were transferred to a truck.
Only seven Fa-233 helicopters were built at Laupheim, before this factory was destroyed. An Allied bombing attack in July 1944 hit every building in the factory complex except for the wind tunnel. wiping out the complex.
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Testing and Operation

The existing Fa-223 helicopters carried on in demonstrating the usefulness of vertical flight aircraft. Two of the Fa-223s were used in maneuvers at the mountain Warfare school in the Alps near Innsbruck during September 1944. Ships V14 and V16 were utilized to supply the mountain troops. The aircraft flew 83 missions, flying on 29 of the 30 days. The one day of non operation was due to fog so thick the pilot could not see the tips of the rotors. Seventeen landings were made on sites that were 4500 feet or more above sea level, including three on the Dresdener Hutte, at an elevation of 7600 feet.
The extensive maneuvers demonstrated the helicopter had a place in mountain warfare. The Fa-223 could lift 1100 pounds of provisions to a remote site at an elevation of 6500 feet in just seven minutes, a feat that would require twenty men, a day and half of strenuous climbing, to accomplish. in one fifteen minute round trip flight from the base at Mittenwald, a mountain howitzer and its ammunition were lifted on a cable below the helicopter, then flown to, and safely lowered to a position just below the Wornergrat peak. The gun had to be winch lowered, because there was not enough room to land.
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The Fa-223 was used as a troop transport during maneuvers and carried as many as 12 troops in addition to the pilot. Four men were carried inside the cabin and eight were carried on tractor seats fastened to the outriggers.
When the mountain maneuvers ended on October 5,1944, the head of the Mountain Warfare School enthusiastically endorsed the Fa-223 and everyone expected that there would be a push for production of the Drache. instead, on October 11th, an order was received from the Air ministry to stop all work on the Fa-223 and transfer all Focke Achgelis personnel to Messerschmitt. The Me-262 jet fighter required all the skilled labor available for production and as the Allies closed in on Germany from east and west, factories were being set up in remote areas, away from the bombing devastating German industrial plants.
In December, the Air ministry did an about face and ordered Focke Achgelis to be reestablished at Tempelhof Airport in Berlin and to begin producing the Fa-223 at a preposterous rate of 400 per month! This lunatic order was issued despite the fact that all tooling had previously been destroyed in bomb raids and there were nowhere near enough aircraft workers left to perform such a task, even if the tooling did exist, but professor Focke once again went to work setting up a helicopter factory.
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Five of the seven Fa-223s built at Laupheim were still flyable and three of these were turned over to the Luftwaffe for use by its recently activated helicopter squadron Transportstaffel 40. this unit was formed in early 1945 at Muhldorf, Bavaria, and operated a mix of Focke Achgelis Fa-223s and Flettner Fl-282s. The organization under the command of Hauptmann Josef Stangl moved to Ainring near the German-Austrian border and then to Styria in Austria to preform artillery observation, liaison, and transport task in support of the hastily improvised Luftwaffe division, north Alp. Once in Austria the unit began a retreat back to Ainring in the face of the advancing U.S. 80th infantry Division. Some of its helicopters were captured along the way, others were destroyed by their crews, after forced landings. The two Fa-223s and the few Fl-282s that made it back to Ainring, were captured by the onrushing U.S. forces.
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Meanwhile, the Tempelhof produced Fa-233E was delivered to the Luftwaffe and by "Order of the Fuhrer' on February 25, 1945. ordered to fly to Danzig. it took off from Tempelhof the next morning to proceed on its mission. Due to dodging storms, Allied bombing attacks, advancing allied forces, and having to search for fuel, the helicopter's pilot did not arrive on the outskirts of Danzing until the evening of march 5th. There, because of advancing Soviet forces, it was now impossible to fly into the center of Danzing as ordered. While awaiting orders on where to proceed, the crew got word that a fighter pilot had gotten lost in a snowstorm and had made a crash landing. Lt. Gerstenhauer took off in the Fa-223 and proceeded to search the area. The helicopter crew spotted the downed Me-109 with the injured pilot still in the cockpit. They rescued him and flew him back to the base for medical attention. By this time, Danzing was falling to the Russians, and the Fa-223's crew took off to try to reach a safer haven. Fuel was still a problem and when they did find a fuel stockpile, they realized that the Allies push had captured or destroyed all the friendly airfields along their projected route. After topping the tanks off, they loaded a 55 gallon drum of gasoline and a hand pump on board, took off and overflew the Soviet forces. When they finally put down at the German base at Werder, they had flown a total of 1041 mile on this escape mission. After a rest the ship was flown to Ainring to join Transportstaffel 40, only to be captured by American troops.
Three Fa-223s were in final assembly at Tempelhof, along with 15 partially assembled ships, when the Soviet forces captured the Berlin airport.

Post War

The Americans turned over Fa-223E V14 to the British for evaluation. At the time of its transfer, V14 had logged 170 flying hours, more than any other helicopter in the world. On July 25, 1945, ex-Luftwaffe Lt. Gerstenhauer (officially a POW), flew V14 with Sqn. Ldr. Cable, RAF and Lt. Buvide, USNR, from Germany, to the French coast and then on to England where they landed at RAF Beaulieu. This was the first crossing of the English Channel by helicopter, but while undergoing flight evaluations in England, V14 was destroyed, due to a mechanical failure in the drive system.
The Fa-223 that had made the Danzig trip was painted with U.S. markings and was scheduled to come to the United States for flight evaluation. it is not known if it ever actually made it to America, but there were other Fa-223 survivors.
In addition to the Tempelhof assembly line, a second Fa-223 production line was being set up in occupied Czechoslovakia. After the war, two of its partially completed airframes were assembled and flown at the Avia plant.

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The pioneer work of Anton Flettner is often overshadowed by the more publicised activities of his contemporaries Focke and Sikorsky; yet Flettner's first fully practical helicopter, the Fl 265, was far superior to the Fw 61 and made a successful free flight several months before the VS-300 began tethered flights.

Anton Flettner was a German aeronautical scientist who experimented with helicopters in the 1930s. He built his first helicopter in 1930's, a complicated and odd-looking craft, and realized it was not a practical helicopter design. It was destroyed during a tethered flight in 1933, and Flettner turned his attention to autogyros. He built a craft called the Fl 184, which had full cyclic control that allowed the pilot to tilt the rotor by moving the control stick in the direction that he wanted to fly.
Flettner's initial Fl 184 design was successful, so the inventor added power to the main rotor. He also developed a collective pitch control, which allowed the pilot to increase the pitch of all of the lifting blades simultaneously. Flettner also removed the autogyro's main propeller and replaced it with two smaller propellers on outriggers located on the side.
In 1937, while the Focke-Achgelis Fa 61 was making its impressive test flights, Flettner began developing the Fl 265. This was a small helicopter, compared to its only contemporary, the Focke-Achgelis Fa 223. The Fl 265, which was called a synchropter because of its rotor configuration, had two counter-rotating rotors set close together and splayed outwards. The rotors intermeshed like the blades of an eggbeater. Flettner received a small production contract from the German Navy in 1938, and the aircraft made its first flight in May 1939. The aircraft proved impressively controllable in flight and was a major improvement over the Focke-Achgelis designs.
In 1940, Flettner debuted an improved version designated the Fl 282 Kolibri (hummingbird). The Kolibri could fly at almost 90 miles per hour (145 kilometers per hour), could reach 13,000 feet (3,962 meters), and could carry an 800-pound (383-kilogram) load. The fuselage was approximately 21.5 feet (6.5 meters) long, and the craft was 7.2 feet (2.1 meters) high. The rotor diameter was approximately 39.2 feet (12 meters) and had the same synchropter configuration as the earlier Fl 265.
A Siemens-Halske Sh14A engine providing 150 to 160 horsepower (112 to 119 kilowatts) powered the Kolibri Fl 282. The radial engine was mounted in the center fuselage, with a small propeller to draw in cooling air. A transmission was mounted on the engine crankcase front. It ran a driveshaft connected to an upper gearbox that split the power into two opposite rotating driveshafts that turned the rotors.
Flettner designed his craft to carry two people, a pilot and an observer. The pilot sat in front of the rotors in an open cockpit affording good visibility. The observer sat in a single compartment behind the rotors, facing the rear. The observer could spot submarines at sea or troop movements on the battlefield. The Kolibri was one of the first helicopters designed with a clear military mission.
The German Navy (Kriegsmarine) was impressed with the Kolibri and wanted to evaluate its use for submarine spotting. However, critics argued that fighter planes would easily attack the slow-flying craft. In 1941, the Navy conducted an evaluation using two fighter planes to stage a mock attack on a Fl 265. The fighters could not hold the agile craft in their gunsights.
Flettner also demonstrated that the little craft could land on a ship, even in heavy seas. Naval leaders were impressed and, in 1940, ordered several dozen of the craft with the clear intention of mass-producing them. Allied bombing ended production efforts, but 24 of the aircraft still entered service, with a number of them being used for escort service, flying off the gun turrets of ships to spot submarines, and performing resupply missions even in poor weather conditions. The German Army also evaluated this type of aircraft.
The Fl 282 served in the Baltic, North Aegean, and Mediterranean Seas. Only three of the craft survived the war; the Germans destroyed the rest to prevent them from falling into Allied hands. Two of the survivors went to the United States and Britain, the third to the Soviet Union.
The Fl 282 was designed so the rotor blades and landing gear could be removed and the helicopter stored in a compact area such as the pressure tank of a U-boat. There is no evidence that it was ever used this way. It was intended to search for submarines, and in the fairly clear waters of the Mediterranean, a pilot could see a submerged submarine as deep as 130 feet (40 meters). He could match the speed and course of the submarine and radio the position to the convoy. The pilot could also mark the sub's position with a smoke bomb. But the helicopter was too small to carry weapons, although some tests were conducted with small anti-submarine bombs. There is no good information on the helicopter's actual use during the war.
The Kolibri's intermeshing rotors represented the fourth approach to solving the control and torque problems, after Bréguet's stacked coaxial counter-rotating blades, Focke's widely spaced counter-rotating blades, and Sikorsky's tail rotor. The Kaman Huskie, which saw U.S. Air Force, Navy, and Marine service during the 1950s and 1960s, and the Kaman K-Max single-seat aerial crane used this design in the 1990s. The design has not proven to be long lasting or popular. The biggest problems with this design are that the helicopters are slow compared to other types and the rotors endanger people on the ground.
The Fl 282 is most notable for pioneering the Naval use of helicopters, particularly for hunting submarines. However, it would be many years before a helicopter was produced that routinely succeeded in this mission.

http://www.1903to2003.gov/essay/Rotary/flettner/HE6.htm

The Kolibri "Humming Bird" was the first helicopter put into mass production and the only helicopter to make any significant contributions in World War II.
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Postby Topspeed on 17 Jul 2004 19:55

Here is the first chopper:

http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay ... /HE5G1.htm

By Heinrich Focke ( founder of Focke-Wulf factories ) with Achgelis .
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