Trench Weapons and Hand to Hand Combat

[stg 44]

Does anyone have any pictures of hand to hand combat weapons that were used in WW1? Also, what was taught to soldiers on each side about hand to hand combat? Was there special training for units like the storm troopers, or was most just learned by experience?

[Wm. Harris]

I don't believe any particular training was given for raiding in the British/Dominion armies. It was something you learned at the front from the old sweats in your company. From what I've read of the standard training for infantry, it stuck very much to the 'basics' (ie, musketry, bombing, physical conditioning, &c).

With few exceptions, special hand-to-hand weapons were not issued to troops. They may have been acquired by individuals for their own purposes, but there were no government-issued items. The one exception I can think of to this is the kukri knives used by the gurkhas, which of course had been part of their kit for a long time before the war (and remains so today). The value of these weapons was mostly psychological: German soldiers were apparently quite unsettled by the prospect of meeting gurkhas during trench raids.

Some soldiers made bats or clubs to bring with them, usually adorned with nails or spikes of some kind. I've also read that native Canadians and Americans would sometimes bring traditional weapons of their own into the trenches, perhaps to remind them of their culture's warrior traditions. But I think most Tommies didn't care too much for these, since they obviously required you to get very close to a German soldier in order to despatch him.

The following excerpt from Lyn Macdonald's To the Last Man says a lot about what the average British soldier thought was the ideal weapon for raiding:

Private George Hull

[An officer] said he had noticed that the bayonets fitting loosely on the bosses of the rifles had made quite an amount of noise the previous night while we were crawling across No Man's Land. He was carrying a brown-paper parcel, and as he proceeded to unwrap it he said, 'I've got some good weapons for you, boys.' I expected to see revolvers or automatic pistols, and I was amazed when he produced small hatchets -- like Red Indian tomahawks. There were only eight of us this time and armed with those things and only one firearm in the party (namely his own revolver) I didn't think much of our chances against Germans with rifles and bayonets. All of us, including the NCOs, were nonplussed, but being good disciplinarians none of us said anything.

Bill

[Gwynn Compton]

Of course the entrenching spade has always been a favourite as well.

Gwynn

[Mad Zeppelin]

In the German Army this was "buddy training" as well. Official training courses focused on the use of rifles, hand granades, machine guns and the proper application of "all-arms-tactics". Even storm troopers were not trained in close combat, apparently it was taken for granted that all soldiers already knew how to do that. A typical storm troop training course consisted of a lot of hand granade practise - with own and captured ones, all-arms tactics, the famous obstacle course, training under gas mask, co-operation with close support weapons, even setting up telephone lines from a captured trench - but hardly hand-to-hand combat.
On the other hand, trench daggers were standard equipment for all soldiers, and the German entrenching spade M 1874 was notoriously well suited for close combat.

[Alter Mann]

Some US troops in WWI were issued weapons specially designed for trench warfare. The two examples that I have heard of are the 'trench knife' and the 'trench broom'.

The trench knife has a short, straight, double-edged blade; cast brass hilt with integral 'brass knuckles' type finger guard and an iron or steel 'skull crusher' pommel.

The trench broom is a 12 gauge, pump action shotgun. (Pump action shotguns can be fired faster than automatic models by trained personnel.) Shotguns were determined to be 'unsportsmanlike' after WWI, but some were issued to, and many more were bought by US troops who fought in Vietnam.

The trench knife is no longer issued as it is deemed inhumane, but they are still available. As late as 1985 US Marines were still required to 'fam-fire' the trench brooms.

Shovels and entrenching tools have always been a favorite, but the only formal training I have heard of for their use in combat is conducted by the Russian Spetznaz. They recieve several months of training in how to use their E-tools for a large number of tasks, including close combat.

[Kingdom of Montenegro]

I know that some Montenegrin soldiers used these knives called ˝jatagan˝.

[Alter Mann]

I am hoping that this will turn into a link to a look at the US Trench Knife:

http://arms2armor.com/Knives/m1trench.htm

I know that the date is late in the war, or later, but there are links to pictures of earlier versions.

[MihaiC]

I know that some Montenegrin soldiers used these knives called ˝jatagan˝.

I thought that 'iatagan/jatagan' was the name of the curbed sword of the janissaries.

[Alter Mann]

MihaiC says:

I thought that 'iatagan/jatagan' was the name of the curbed sword of the janissaries.

I'm definitely not an expert on the subject but I thought that the janissaries used scimitars and the Mongols used yatagans. As to what the Montenegrins were doing with them, I certainly have no idea, unless there was a popular multi-purpose kinfe in Montenegro with a similar name.

[Polynikes]

Check out the trench knife that was privately issued to the 9th Battalion, Royal Welch Fusiliers between November 1916 and December 1917 by Lord Howard.

Lord Howard wished to equip his troops as well as possible, and so he had knives made for the 9th Battalion. It has often been claimed that the design of the knife is based on a specifically Welsh design used by Welsh archers at Crecy. This is, however, romantic nonsense, and there is no evidence to suggest that any specifically Welsh form of sword or dagger existed.

At the start of the battle of Messines, 1917, one company raided German trenches on the 5th June. The account includes the following:

"..and the Lewis gunners, furnished with the strange knives furnished by Lord Howard de Walden, the whole Company, in conjunction with the King's Liverpools on the left, climbed over the top, and dashed under the barrage into the enemy trenches."

http://www.rwfmuseum.org.uk/nb.html#The ... h%20Knife'

[Kingdom of Montenegro]

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[Kingdom of Montenegro]

MihaiC says:

I thought that 'iatagan/jatagan' was the name of the curbed sword of the janissaries.

I'm definitely not an expert on the subject but I thought that the janissaries used scimitars and the Mongols used yatagans. As to what the Montenegrins were doing with them, I certainly have no idea, unless there was a popular multi-purpose kinfe in Montenegro with a similar name.

I dont know if Mongols used it(maybe it is originally their weapon),but in Montenegro jatagan was brought by Turks and it was most common weapon in 18th and 19th century.There were two versions longer(like sabre) and shorter.
For example,in Russo-Japanese war volunteer from Montenegro in Russian army Saichic(I forgot his first name)killed Japanese samuray in duel using jatagan.

Best regards.

[Alter Mann]

Polynikes, the knife used by the 9th has re-surfaced in the US, where I believe it is sold under the nomenclature 'smatchet' ? It doesn't have the raised spine of the version shown but is too similar to meke me think it is a new design.

I'm also deeply offended at the suggestion that the Welsh did not have any characteristic cutting weapons, being of Welsh ancestry. Of course, I don't know of any, but surely there was at least one, or maybe a bottle opener or something.

Kingdom of Montenegro, I have been too lazy to do the research, but a quick Google search brought me to this site

http://www.eriksedge.com/AS116.html

I still think that the weapon was originally from Mongolia, and that the Mongols used them against the Turks for several centuries. Isn't it amazing that a knife or short sword can morph over generations and still retain the same name?

[walterkaschner]

My father, who was with the American Expeditionary Force and fought in both the St. Mihiel and the Meuse-Argonne offensives in September 1918, carried a "knuckle-duster" trench knife like the one shown in the link kindly provided by Alte Mann in his Sept. 25 post above. He felt it was primarily for use on night patrols, where silence was essential, and he was eternally grateful that he never had to use it. I can remember seeing it as a child, but I don't know whatever became of it.

For close-quarters work he also carried a .38 caliber Colt New Service revolver in an Audry cavalry holster, which he was unfortunately on occasion called upon to use and which I still have to this day, in perfect working order. It was non-regulation for the infantry, but my father disliked the .45 caliber Colt Model 1911 Automatic pistol which was regulation infantry issue. He did not trust the automatic, which he thought might be susceptible of jamming in a tight spot, nor did he like its holster, which he found clumsy. The Colt revolver was lighter in weight than the automatic and completely reliable; although theoretically less powerful, if one took and split the head of the revolver's lead bullet (probably illegal) it supposedly had just as much stopping power at close range as did the .45 caliber copper-jacketed cartridge for the automatic. Moreover, the patented design of the cavalry holster prevents the revolver from slipping out even when the flap is open, and the holster can be secured to one's leg so that it can not flap about.

As to special training for hand-to-hand combat, I can't recall my father speaking much about it, but I do have a couple of snapshots of him in hand held bayonet practice and in pistol practice, so there must have been some.

Regards, Kaschner

[Kingdom of Montenegro]

Kingdom of Montenegro, I have been too lazy to do the research, but a quick Google search brought me to this site

http://www.eriksedge.com/AS116.html

I still think that the weapon was originally from Mongolia, and that the Mongols used them against the Turks for several centuries. Isn't it amazing that a knife or short sword can morph over generations and still retain the same name?

It is amazing,but it is more amazing how it traveled from Mongols to Turks and came to my country without changing it's name.I didn't even know that Mongols used jatagans,I thought that it is originally Turkish weapon.You learn something new on this forum every day.

Best regards.