Continue from myths thread about gas chambers

[mastodontti]

Panzertruppe2001 said:

There are a lot of myth about the Nazis and the Third Reich . . .
6)There were gas chambers in Germany. Note: There were concentration camps in Germany but without gas chambers

This is inaccurate.

According to Eugen Kogon, Hermann Langbein and Adalbert Rueckerl's Nazi Mass Murder: A Documentary History of the Use of Poison Gas, Yale University Press, New Haven/London: 1993 (this is considered the definitive overview), there were homicidal gas chambers at these sites:

KL (Konzentrationslager/ Concentration Camp) Auschwitz (Poland, Zyklon B)
Kulmhof [Chelmno] (Poland, Carbon Monoxide in stationary vans)
KL Belzec (Poland, Carbon Monoxide)
KL Majdanek (Poland, Carbon Monoxide and Zyklon B)
KL Mauthausen (Austria, Zyklon B)
KL Natzweiler-Struthof (Germany, unknown cyanide gas produced by salts)
KL Neuengamme (Germany, Zyklon B)
KL Ravensbrueck (Germany, unknown gas - possibly Zyklon B)
KL Sachsenhausen (Germany, Zyklon A or Zyklon B)
KL Sobibor (Poland, Carbon Monoxide)
KL Stutthof (Germany, now Poland, Zyklon B)
KL Treblinka (Poland, Carbon Monoxide)

and perhaps at KL Dachau (Germany, unknown cyanide gas).

There were also homicidal gassing facilities at these asylums, for the T-4 program:

HuPa (Heil- und Pflegeanstalten/ Health Care Institute) Grafeneck (Germany, Carbon Monoxide)
HuPa Hademar (Germany, Carbon Monoxide)

In addition, the T-4 program had the use of the gassing vans of Sonderkommando Lange (Poland, Warthegau and East Prussia, Carbon Monoxide). These vans were later used by Einsatzkommandos in Ukraine and former Yugoslavia.

This means that while most of the victims of Nazi homicidal gassings were killed outside the Greater German Reich, there were functioning homicidal gas chambers within Germany at:

HuPa Grafeneck
HuPa Hademar
KL Natzweiler-Struthof
KL Mauthausen
KL Neuengamme
KL Ravensbrueck
KL Sachsenhausen and
KL Stutthof

and homicidal gassing vans were also used within the Greater German Reich.

If anyone wants to argue the point, take your comments over to the H&WC section of the forum.

Here is one IHR leaflet about gas chambers, just a point of view.

http://www.ihr.org/leaflets/gaschambers.shtml

[Mikko H.]

"Just a point of view" from an organization notorious for its denial of the holocaust.

[David Thompson]

The question is whether there were "gas chambers in Germany," particularly at:

HuPa Grafeneck
HuPa Hadamar
KL Natzweiler-Struthof
KL Mauthausen
KL Neuengamme
KL Ravensbrueck
KL Sachsenhausen and
KL Stutthof

The pamphlet written by Robert Faurisson doesn't answer that question, or even address itself to that question. Probably the reason is that most of the homicidal gassing facilities mentioned above were not directed specifically at killing Jews -- on which subject Mr. Faurisson appears strangely obsessed.

[maxxx]

i have visited the -rather small-gas chamber in mauthausen.
it was definitely not for industrial mass-murder, more useful for small "actions" of killing a handful or dozen of prisoners at the same time- but for the layout of the whole cellar , with attached morgue etc., it looked the really thing. And when you see the hundreds of small plaques placed there by the family of the victims killed here it seems frivolous IMO to deny it existed....

[panzertruppe2001]

I will use my answer rights. In my post i did not deny the existance of gas chamber in Germany, but the existance of gas chambers in the KZ in Germany. Sorry, i forgot the chambers in the asylum for the T 4 program, so there was gas chambers in the asylum in Germany but not in the KZ in Germany. Sorry again for my mistake and thanks David for correct me

Panzertruppe 2001

[David Thompson]

Discussions on the evidence for gas chambers at KL Mauthausen and KL Natzweiler-Struthof appear in these threads:

Mauthausen
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=15149
Mauthausen gas chambers again
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=28640
Gas Chambers at KL Natzweiler
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=53135

[David Thompson]

Descriptions of the evidence for gas chambers at KL Neuengamme, KL Ravensbrueck, KL Sachsenhausen and KL Strutthof appear in these threads:

Homicidal gas chamber at KL Neuengamme
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=59741
Homicidal gas chamber at KL Ravensbrueck
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=59738
Homicidal gas chamber at KL Sachsenhausen
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=59737
Homicidal gas chamber at KL Stutthof
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=59740

[maxxx]

panzertruppe, did you read my post?
I have seen the place, i have spoken to people who had been prisoners at Mauthausen, one of them is actually a friend.
That was no room where the SS stored their potatoes!

Or just read some of the topics on the list provided by David!
About 4000 people were killed by gas at Mauthausen alone (some of them in Gas Trucks, some in the Basement Gas chamber)

Why should survivors, witnesses and historians start a conspiration just to add 4000 people to the death-toll of millions? Not very reasonable...

[cyberdaemon]

"Just a point of view" from an organization notorious for its denial of the holocaust.

i asked from marcus once "is denial of gas chambers a denial of holocaust" , but i didnt found the thread.

but if your interested to hear , not all gas chamber denials arent nazis and anti-semitic people

[mastodontti]

Well, good to hear someone else might be a little skeptic on certain things too. I my self am still very much in the learning process on holocaust and nuremberg trials an other stuff. Not denying the holocaust, just a little curious on some things, so much stuff out there, haven´t yet decided what to believe.

[David Thompson]

The posts on the gassing facilities at KL Sachsenhausen now have a thread of their own, at:

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=60202

[Georg_S]

There was indeed a gaschamber at KL Mauthausen
it was after suggestion from SS-Stubaf Dr. Eduard Krebsbach
it was build.

//Georg

[Konrad]

That the German concentration camps were provided with fumigation gas chambers is not questioned.
And that these gas chambers could be used to murder a small number of people can also not be disputed either.
Whether this was actually done in German concentration camps I would have to leave to criminologists.

The question is whether there were "gas chambers in Germany," particularly at:

HuPa Grafeneck
HuPa Hadamar
KL Natzweiler-Struthof
KL Mauthausen
KL Neuengamme
KL Ravensbrueck
KL Sachsenhausen and
KL Stutthof

The pamphlet written by Robert Faurisson doesn't answer that question, or even address itself to that question. Probably the reason is that most of the homicidal gassing facilities mentioned above were not directed specifically at killing Jews -- on which subject Mr. Faurisson appears strangely obsessed.

Grafeneck and Hadamar are institutes used for euthanasia. Euthanasia as far as I know was committed with lethal injections.

Whether bottled CO was used also for this is in my open for question. CO is color- and odorless, flamable and highly poisonous and as far as I know even today no gas mask filter exists which protects against it.
Grafeneck and Hadamar are large hospitals and I find it rather dubious that people would fiddle with such a gas in a room inside the basement or elsewhere, possibly exposing other parts of the hospital to this gas or risk an explosin.

Faurisson's article is rather general and refers to a "Letter to the Editor" by Dr. Broszat about homicidal gas chambers in Germany, which is reproduced here:
http://vho.org/VffG/2001/4/image071.gif

This is a translation of the complete text of Broszat's letter:

Neither in Dachau nor in Bergen-Belsen nor in Buchenwald were Jews or other prisoners gassed. The gas chamber in Dachau was never entirely finished or put "into operation." Hundreds of thousands of prisoners who perished in Dachau and other concentration camps in the Old Reich [that is, Germany in its borders of 1937] were victims, above all, of the catastrophic hygienic and provisioning conditions: according to official SS statistics, during the twelve months from July 1942 through June 1943 alone, 110,812 persons died of disease and hunger in all of the concentration camps of the Reich. The mass extermination of the Jews by gassing began in 1941-1942 and occurred exclusively in a few facilities selected and equipped with appropriate technical installations, above all in the occupied Polish territory (but at no place in the Old Reich): in Auschwitz-Birkenau, in Sobibor on the Bug [river], in Treblinka, Chelmno and Belzec.
It is at those places, but not in Bergen-Belsen, Dachau or Buchenwald, where the mass extermination facilities, spoken of in your article [in an earlier issue of Die Zeit], were built and disguised as shower baths or disinfection rooms. This necessary differentiation does not, of course, change anything regarding the criminal character of the facility that was the concentration camp. However, it may perhaps help eliminate the annoying confusion that arises from the fact that some ineducable people make use of a few arguments that, while correct, are polemically torn from the context, and that, rushing to respond to them are other people who, although they have the correct overall view, rely upon false or mistaken information.
Dr. M. Broszat
Institute for Contemporary History
Munich

Faurisson regrets in his article that Broszat did not explain why he believes that "Neither in Dachau nor in Bergen-Belsen nor in Buchenwald were Jews or other prisoners gassed."

So do I.

k

[xcalibur]

Small wonder then that hospitals the world over "fiddle" with oxygen, a colorless, odorless, highly flamable gas.

[Konrad]

Small wonder then that hospitals the world over "fiddle" with oxygen, a colorless, odorless, highly flamable gas.

Oxygen is higly flameable? How is the oxidation product of oxygen called? Oxy-oxid?


k