Count Helldorf and Oberst der Polizei Wolfsteig

[panzertruppe2001]

Excuse people but I have a doubt with the duties of these men. Count Helldorf was Präsident of Berlin Ordung Polizei until July 1944, but Oberst Wolfsteig was Befehlshaber der Ordnungspolizei Berlin between 1942-45.
Was it the same the Befehlshaber and the Präsident? Who was the exactly the chief, so the man that give the orders? And which were exactly the duties of every one?

Thanks people

[Andreas Schulz]

The correct name of the BdO was Dr. Friedrich Wolfstieg.
You can find his bio in the book "Die Generale der Waffen-SS und der Polizei" by "Oberstab" and myself in the next year (so we hope).

AnDie

[panzertruppe2001]

Thanks but do you know the difference between the Befehshaber of Berlin Ordungspolizei and the Präsident of Berlin Ordnungspolizei

Panzertruppe2001

[Phil Nix]

Thanks but do you know the difference between the Befehshaber of Berlin Ordungspolizei and the Präsident of Berlin Ordnungspolizei

Panzertruppe2001

Befehlshaber der Ordnungspolizei was responsible for all police duties carried out by Schutzpolizei and gendarmerie The post was always held by a serving Schutzpolizei or Gendarmerie officer.
Polizeipräsident was responsible cfor co-ordinating all police duties including Schupo, Kripo, Gendarmerie. Feuerschutz. Sipo SD etc he was sometimes aservibng of retired policeiman but also the post was held by civil servants, SS and SA senior officers etc
If George Jerome and I can finally get our book published all this will become clear
Philmil

[JoeW]

Phil, wasn't there a difference is responsibility? Wasn't the BdO Berlin on the staff and ultimately responsible to the HSSPF Berlin and therefore ultimately Himmler, while the Polizei Präsident was responsible to the Oberburgermeister Berlin as Commissioner of all the Police in Berlin. In a sense the former was a semi-party position and the later a civilian job.

[panzertruppe2001]

Thanks but do you know the difference between the Befehshaber of Berlin Ordungspolizei and the Präsident of Berlin Ordnungspolizei

Panzertruppe2001

Befehlshaber der Ordnungspolizei was responsible for all police duties carried out by Schutzpolizei and gendarmerie The post was always held by a serving Schutzpolizei or Gendarmerie officer.
Polizeipräsident was responsible cfor co-ordinating all police duties including Schupo, Kripo, Gendarmerie. Feuerschutz. Sipo SD etc he was sometimes aservibng of retired policeiman but also the post was held by civil servants, SS and SA senior officers etc
If George Jerome and I can finally get our book published all this will become clear
Philmil

Thanks for your answers, very clear. But I have another doubt. You mention the Gendarmerie. This Gendarmerie was not the same as the Feldgendarmerie. Was was its special tasks? Was it a border polizei? In Argentina the border polizei is called Gendarmerie.

Thanks

[mty]

Gendarmerie is perhaps the oldest police branch in Central Europe. If I remember correctly, it was first founded by the French after the great revolution in order to transfer police duties from armies to civil police bodies.

There's a minor difference existing between 'Gendarmerie' and 'Police' in terminology. Usually gendarmerie force is responsible of maintaining law and order in countryside and in some countries it is also the traffic police body of the state (for example in Spain Guardia Civil de Tráfico).

In many countries police system is divided on three different levels: the national level, the provincial level and the municipal level. I am not totally sure was it that way in Third Reich too, but usually there is a one superior police body ('The national police') which is responsible of international co-operation and investigation of the major state-level crimes. On the provincial level there are police inspectorates in provincial capitals supervising other police organizations operating in their corresponding province. On the municipal (local) level there is either a municipal police force funded and operated by the town council or - mainly on countryside - a gendarmerie force usually operating in larger areas such as counties (which consists of many minor municipalities).

But then - what was the duty of Gendarmerie in the largest city of Germany ?-)

[Phil Nix]

Thanks but do you know the difference between the Befehshaber of Berlin Ordungspolizei and the Präsident of Berlin Ordnungspolizei

Panzertruppe2001

Befehlshaber der Ordnungspolizei was responsible for all police duties carried out by Schutzpolizei and gendarmerie The post was always held by a serving Schutzpolizei or Gendarmerie officer.
Polizeipräsident was responsible cfor co-ordinating all police duties including Schupo, Kripo, Gendarmerie. Feuerschutz. Sipo SD etc he was sometimes aservibng of retired policeiman but also the post was held by civil servants, SS and SA senior officers etc
If George Jerome and I can finally get our book published all this will become clear
Philmil

Thanks for your answers, very clear. But I have another doubt. You mention the Gendarmerie. This Gendarmerie was not the same as the Feldgendarmerie. Was was its special tasks? Was it a border polizei? In Argentina the border polizei is called Gendarmerie.

Thanks

Gendarmerie in this case applied to police serving in small towns and country areas whilst Schutzpolizei covered larger towns and cities. BdO did report to HSSPF for all matters concerning ideology, Party etc but he had to liase with Pol Pras for general day to day operations of the police.
Philmil

[panzertruppe2001]

Thanks Philmil, very good information. I wipe out a lot of doubts. Thanks again

Panzertruppe2001