Foibe! Tito's Infamy

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Bergmolch
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Foibe! Tito's Infamy

#1

Post by Bergmolch » 09 Oct 2004, 07:56

Just read a big topic about Tito,where somebody people tried to justify him and his Regime.
I think this people don't know that in north italy Tito and his partizans killed around 60.000 civilians guilty to be italian,non communist or communist but anti-slovenian:just putting them into the Foibe,big holes in the rocks.
I think this people don't know what happens at Malga Porzus at the end of the war.
I think this people don't know that Tito's partizan crossed the italian border on the mountains and killed hundreds of shepherds just to steal them milk and cows:this people don't know that one of them was my grandfather.

I would like to remember them that actually in Italy try to deny the Titos'Foibe Holocaust is a crime as deny the Hitler's Shoah.

If you don't know what you are talking about please be silent and give us respect.

I will post some pics and the italian website regarding the Foibe.
http://digilander.libero.it/lefoibe/indexx.htm

All the replies are welcome
Attachments
foibe.jpg
foibe.jpg (19.55 KiB) Viewed 4370 times

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Locke
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#2

Post by Locke » 09 Oct 2004, 12:07

What is the purpose of the last picture in your second post? It's a picture of a cave in Slovenia, Lubniška jama (near Škofja Loka), which has nothing to do with foibe.

Foibe are really a dark chapter in our history, which we mustn't forget. but we also mustn't forget what was happening to Slovenians under the fascist regime.
It would be good if we could confess our guilt and reach reconcilliation.

Another link:
http://www.zrs-kp.si/konferenca/govoric ... enka_T.htm

Best,
Polona


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Marcus
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#3

Post by Marcus » 09 Oct 2004, 12:23

A few images were removed, please refer to the guidelines:
David Thompson wrote: 2. Atrocity photographs

Atrocity photographs are not specifically covered in the forum rules. The policy here is, if the photos are "graphic," the contributor should post a link to the photographs, rather than the photographs themselves, so that the other viewers have a choice as to whether or not to take a look.

That leaves us with the question of what is "graphic." This is apparently discretionary with the moderator/host. Here's my view on it:

I don't care who is supposed to have committed the atrocities in the photographs. Whether the subject matter is Nazi, communist, ethnic, regional, racial, religious or any other type of atrocity, links and descriptions should be posted for the following classes of photographs and illustrations:

(a) Mutilated persons, alive or dead;

(b) Severed body parts, insufficient in themselves to constitute a person; and

(c) Dead persons who are not only dead, but who clearly appear to be the worse for wear.

There are specialty sites which cater to necro-voyeurs, but this isn't one of them. In case of doubt, ask first via private message.
/Marcus

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Bergmolch
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#4

Post by Bergmolch » 09 Oct 2004, 18:48

Marcus Wendel wrote:A few images were removed, please refer to the guidelines:
David Thompson wrote: 2. Atrocity photographs

Atrocity photographs are not specifically covered in the forum rules. The policy here is, if the photos are "graphic," the contributor should post a link to the photographs, rather than the photographs themselves, so that the other viewers have a choice as to whether or not to take a look.

That leaves us with the question of what is "graphic." This is apparently discretionary with the moderator/host. Here's my view on it:

I don't care who is supposed to have committed the atrocities in the photographs. Whether the subject matter is Nazi, communist, ethnic, regional, racial, religious or any other type of atrocity, links and descriptions should be posted for the following classes of photographs and illustrations:

(a) Mutilated persons, alive or dead;

(b) Severed body parts, insufficient in themselves to constitute a person; and

(c) Dead persons who are not only dead, but who clearly appear to be the worse for wear.

There are specialty sites which cater to necro-voyeurs, but this isn't one of them. In case of doubt, ask first via private message.
/Marcus
I'm sorry,my fault. I didn't know that cos' I didn't read the policy...I'm a donkey :roll:
Last edited by Bergmolch on 09 Oct 2004, 19:17, edited 3 times in total.

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Bergmolch
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#5

Post by Bergmolch » 09 Oct 2004, 19:13

Locke wrote:What is the purpose of the last picture in your second post? It's a picture of a cave in Slovenia, Lubniška jama (near Škofja Loka), which has nothing to do with foibe.

Foibe are really a dark chapter in our history, which we mustn't forget. but we also mustn't forget what was happening to Slovenians under the fascist regime.
It would be good if we could confess our guilt and reach reconcilliation.

Another link:
http://www.zrs-kp.si/konferenca/govoric ... enka_T.htm

Best,
Polona
I'm sorry I attached the wrong picture:the right one shows the Basovizza Hole.
I agree with you about reconciliation but when I hear people who vomit over my grandfather I can't belive it.
You slovenian and I came from Friuli:we both know what we are talkin'about:but you know,nothing against them,but isn't not nice heard people from USA,Thaiti,UK and all over the world that they try to justify Tito but they never seen what Tito's did to our families and our children.....
Is the same if I try to talk about shoah and I try to deny the holocaust:some jews could be not really happy,isn't??

The last thing:brutality will call brutality.If you tell me that before judge Tito's infamy I have to think about that the slovenia was invaded and a lot o massacres were done you don't understand the point:no one kind of brutality can justify brutality. Otherwise we will go back in the Paleolitic.

Anyway max respect to you and sorry for my english.
T.

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Locke
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#6

Post by Locke » 09 Oct 2004, 19:47

Drapeau Noir wrote: I'm sorry I attached the wrong picture:the right one shows the Basovizza Hole.
I agree with you about reconciliation but when I hear people who vomit over my grandfather I can't belive it.
You slovenian and I came from Friuli:we both know what we are talkin'about:but you know,nothing against them,but isn't not nice heard people from USA,Thaiti,UK and all over the world that they try to justify Tito but they never seen what Tito's did to our families and our children.....
Is the same if I try to talk about shoah and I try to deny the holocaust:some jews could be not really happy,isn't??

The last thing:brutality will call brutality.If you tell me that before judge Tito's infamy I have to think about that the slovenia was invaded and a lot o massacres were done you don't understand the point:no one kind of brutality can justify brutality. Otherwise we will go back in the Paleolitic.

Anyway max respect to you and sorry for my english.
T.
I agree that brutality cannot justify another brutality, but you know what people are like. Not many are able to forgive and stop revenge.

I only reminded you of brutality of the fascists because a lot of people tend to forget what was happening before, and show only one side of the story.

BTW, your English is OK.

Regards,
Polona

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Bergmolch
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#7

Post by Bergmolch » 09 Oct 2004, 22:08

Actually in italy is the opposite:nobody cares about Foibe and Tito's massacres but everybody people scream against Nazifascist atrocities,Priebke ecc.ecc.

anyway with the Me262 atavar can't really be a Tito's Banditen at all!! :wink:

Are you close to the border with us??Where you came from exactly?
Do you use to research relics in the mountains of your zone??
Some italian guys who use to scan the soil with MD told me a lot of stories about abandoned forests full of equipment and bones(in particular I've got one Ustascha buckels relic who comes from Oberkraijna forests)

T.

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#8

Post by David Thompson » 10 Oct 2004, 00:26

Drapeau Noir -- Please carefully read the section rules, posted for all to see at:

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=53962

before posting here again.

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#9

Post by THECLASH » 11 Oct 2004, 00:45

I'm a big Tito fan but I have to admit that this was a dark spot on his historical record. Then again almost every world leader has one including modern ones (not that I'm justifying it).

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#10

Post by Luca » 14 Oct 2004, 05:28

Funny,
the last part of the post war "detriti vari" in the pic are trash.
The "new" Sindaco of the town decide to put all the trash of the area into this black sad hole.
For long years this simple fact was the demostration that the body of the big number of the desparecidos of the area no was into the hole.
Is obviously that any autority can permit to put trash up civils corps.
After some year and some short research into the hole that confirm the presence of humans civil bodyes a great amount of cemento (what cemento in english?) was put over the hole with an iscription.
All peoples was happy and some time was permitted a short cerimony of commemoration as today.
Fact is that any body of the hole stay in consacrate earth also today.
Luca
Last edited by Luca on 14 Oct 2004, 05:37, edited 1 time in total.

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#11

Post by Luca » 14 Oct 2004, 05:36

PS = this is the bigger "monument" for the long list of civils epurated from the comunist titins and italians partisans formations.
A very long list of holes was shortly cleaned after the war without much informations and a long list of medium little hole was ignorated as today.

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#12

Post by Locke » 14 Oct 2004, 20:26

I just wanted to add that due to the carst terrain in Slovenia there are a lot of caves, and some of them were also used as holes for bodies. Not only Italians, but also some of the Slovenian collaborators, Ustasha and Chetniks who were killed, were thrown in caves. Even now the whole number of the caves is unknown, although people still reveal some locations of those tragic killings.

Best,
Polona

BTW, Drapeau Noir - for chatting rather send me a pm than posting here in H&WC section.

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Doggowitz
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#13

Post by Doggowitz » 14 Oct 2004, 20:56

Is there any reliable base for the number of 60.000 Deaths?

Luca
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#14

Post by Luca » 21 Oct 2004, 02:43

Locke wrote:I just wanted to add that due to the carst terrain in Slovenia there are a lot of caves, and some of them were also used as holes for bodies. Not only Italians, but also some of the Slovenian collaborators, Ustasha and Chetniks who were killed, were thrown in caves. Even now the whole number of the caves is unknown, although people still reveal some locations of those tragic killings.

Best,
Polona
Sorry very much if in my poor old notes i vent write about the fate of the moltitude of the thousands of no comunist peoples of the land.
Maybe cause the emotion writing about men, womans, boys, girls, very young as very old people, maybe (or sure?) not all in military shoes, that They stay also today in no consacrate land.
As the precious Member Locke say... They are so much coupable, cause the motherland uniforms
or cause the homeblood; that They can't SOME years after ... stay in consacrate Land.
Luca
Last edited by Luca on 21 Oct 2004, 03:37, edited 8 times in total.

Luca
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#15

Post by Luca » 21 Oct 2004, 02:56

Doggowitz wrote:Is there any reliable base for the number of 60.000 Deaths?
Dear Doggowitz,
any possible base is in term of numbers,
what is possible estimate is in cubic meters.
Luca
Ps = We re writing about one single offical hole? or two? or more?
Warning!!! Every no polite comment can be persecute by the law of my land.

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