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This is an apolitical forum for discussions on the Axis nations, as well as the First and Second World Wars in general hosted by Marcus Wendel's Axis History Factbook in cooperation with Michael Miller's Axis Biographical Research, Christoph Awender's WW2 day by day, Dan Reinbold's Das Reich and Christian Ankerstjerne's Panzerworld.

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Crimes of the Bolshevik Secret Services (1917 - 1991)

Discussions on the Holocaust and 20th Century War Crimes. Note that Holocaust denial is not allowed.
Hosted by David Thompson.

Postby michael mills on 10 Dec 2004 03:21

I meant that Rappoport's claims about a plan by Stalin to complete the extermination of the Jews of Europe by deporting the surviving Jews of the Soviet Union to Siberia where they were to be killed are nonsense.

That alleged plan, of which the arrest of a number of Kremlin doctors (not all of whom were Jewish, by the way) is supposed to have been the starting point, is the basic theme of the book. Therefore, since tha allegation is nonsense, it can be said that the book as a whole is nonsense.

However, in developing his basic theme, Rapoport goes into quite a lot of detail about the origin and development of Bolshevism and the Jewish role in it. While his claims about Stalin's plan are fantasy, the Jewish Bolsheviks he describes and their misdeeds are quite real, and not a figment of the imagination. That element of his book is quite useful.

Like many Jewish rightists, Rappoport seems to regard Stalin's turning against the Jews in the top echelons of the Soviet system (which was real, although the claims of a deportation plan are gross exaggerations) as a sort of divine punishment for the heavy Jewish involvement in Bolshevism. From the traditional Jewish point of view, the Jews who embraced Bolshevism were equivalent to the Ancient Israelites who turned away from Yahveh and worshipped false gods.
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Postby DrG on 10 Dec 2004 15:59

Thank you Michael Mills for the interesting information on that book. :)
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Postby Panzermahn on 28 Jun 2005 07:02

Political murders and kidnapping perpetrated by agents of Soviet Union

a) OGPU agents gunned down Ukrainian leader, Simon Petlura, at Paris 1926,

b) Estonian minister to Soviet Union, Ado Birk was kidnapped in broad daylight at Moscow, 1926. His diplomatic immunity notwithstanding and Birk was never seen again.

c) White Russian leader, Aleksandr Kutepov was kidnapped by OGPU agents on January 26, 1930 at Paris.

d) Hans Wissengir, former communist courier, was shot by OGPU agents at Hamburg, May 22, 1932.

e) Dimitri Navachine, murdered by NKVD at Paris, 1937

f) Juliet Stuart Poyntz, kidnapped by NKVD in New York, 1937 and was never seen again

g) Ignace Reiss, murdered near Lausanne by NKVD, 1937

h) Yevgenni Miller, kidnapped in Paris 1937

i) Henry Moulin, Kurt Landau, Camillo Berneri, and Andres Nin, murdered by NKVD agents in Spain, 1937

j) Ukrainian leader, Evhen Konovalec, murdered by NKVD agents in 1938.

k) Karl Fischer was abducted in Austria, January 1947 and was never seen again

l) Dr. Walter Linse, head of the Association of Free German Jurists, was kidnapped by KGB agents in Berlin, July 8, 1952. Soviet Union denied any complicity in Dr. Linse's disappearance. In 1960, the Soviet Red Cross announced that Dr. Linse died in a Soviet prison on December 15, 1953.

m) In 1954, Dr. Aleksandr Trushnovich and journalist Karl Fricke were abducted by KGB agents in Berlin.

n) NTS member, Valeri Tremmel was abducted by KGB agents in Austria, 1954.

o) Radio Liberty employee, Abdul Fatalibeyl, was beaten to death by KGB agent Mikhail Ismailov, November 1954.

p) Georgi Tregubov was abducted in East Berlin, September 1947, and was never seen again

q) Ukranian emigre, Stephan Bandera, murdered by KGB agent Bogdan Stashinsky in Munich, October 15, 1959.

r) Monahajudin Gahiz, murdered by 6 KGB agents in Kabul, Afghanistan, September 7, 1972

Source: Chapter 8, The Dark Core
John Barron, KGB: The Secret Work of Soviet Secret Agents, Corgi Books 1974
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Postby lavella on 28 Jun 2005 09:20

Panzermahn wrote:Political murders and kidnapping perpetrated by agents of Soviet Union

a) OGPU agents gunned down Ukrainian leader, Simon Petlura, at Paris 1926,

Secret Agents, Corgi Books 1974


Salut Mr Panzermahn

Once again a false allegation 8O !
Petliura was shot (rue Racine in Paris ) by a young russian jewish emigree boy :S.Schwarzbard who survived a pogrom in Ukraine in which Petliura was the perpetrator .
At his trial Schwarzbard was brillantly defended by the famous French attorney Henri TORRES
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Postby Panzermahn on 28 Jun 2005 09:28

lavella wrote:
Panzermahn wrote:Political murders and kidnapping perpetrated by agents of Soviet Union

a) OGPU agents gunned down Ukrainian leader, Simon Petlura, at Paris 1926,

Secret Agents, Corgi Books 1974


Salut Mr Panzermahn

Once again a false allegation 8O !
Petliura was shot (rue Racine in Paris ) by a young russian jewish emigree boy :S.Schwarzbard who survived a pogrom in Ukraine in which Petliura was the perpetrator .
At his trial Schwarzbard was brillantly defended by the famous French attorney Henri TORRES


No I did not come out with false allegation, on page 401 Chapter 8 Dark Core, Mr. Barron mentioned that OGPU agents committed it but anyhow, thanks for the info and it will go down in my notes

By the way, would this Schwarzband happened to be any member of OGPU or assassin under the pay of OGPU?

Au revoir
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Postby lavella on 28 Jun 2005 09:54

Panzermahn wrote:
lavella wrote:
Panzermahn wrote:Political murders and kidnapping perpetrated by agents of Soviet Union

a) OGPU agents gunned down Ukrainian leader, Simon Petlura, at Paris 1926,

Secret Agents, Corgi Books 1974


Salut Mr Panzermahn

Once again a false allegation 8O !
Petliura was shot (rue Racine in Paris ) by a young russian jewish emigree boy :S.Schwarzbard who survived a pogrom in Ukraine in which Petliura was the perpetrator .
At his trial Schwarzbard was brillantly defended by the famous French attorney Henri TORRES


No I did not come out with false allegation, on page 401 Chapter 8 Dark Core, Mr. Barron mentioned that OGPU agents committed it but anyhow, thanks for the info and it will go down in my notes

By the way, would this Schwarzband happened to be any member of OGPU or assassin under the pay of OGPU?

Au revoir
Panzermahn


Rebonjour

in fact , Schwarzbard recently emigrated from Russia was a poor watch repairer (horloger )in Paris
He lost all his family during Ukraine Pogrom and I doubt he had anything to do with GPU.
He was only motivated by a natural feeling of revenge ,and no proofs of other motivations appeared in his trial
.if you Gooogle: Schwarzbard +Petlioura you'll get a lot of infos regarding that case............

A Bientot
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Postby Karman on 28 Jun 2005 10:22

Panzermahn wrote:Political murders and kidnapping perpetrated by agents of Soviet Union

b) Estonian minister to Soviet Union, Ado Birk was kidnapped in broad daylight at Moscow, 1926. His diplomatic immunity notwithstanding and Birk was never seen again.

cSource: Chapter 8, The Dark Core
John Barron, KGB: The Secret Work of Soviet Secret Agents, Corgi Books 1974


That was a long story of attempts of Birk's recruitment to work for OGPU. OGPU failed that time. Birk escaped to Estonia through Finland. So if "Birk was never seen again" as you say he was never seen again in Estonia. But afaik the court declared him not guilty.

Kutepov and Miller performed active sabotage activities against SU so their extermination fell in line with practices common in all secret services worldwide.

Shalom Shvartzbad, the murderer of Simon Petliura was charged in Paris. He said that the murder was the revenge for Jewish pogroms in Ukraine under Petliura. The court excused Shvartzbad and declared not guilty. KGB was blamed for the murder of Petliura 30 years later only.

Dmitriy Navashin was a very interesting peson: mason, agent of British and Soviet intelligences and the treasurer of Leon Trozkiy. Call me a cinic but I do not think that it was a mortal error to kill a Trozkist (that inludes Trozkists Moulin, Landau, Berneri)

Konovaletz was developping the terrorist network in Ukrain. I do not mean that he was either right or wrong but he was at war and was killed at war.

NTS and Radio Liberty also formed a part of Cold War and were subjected to various intellegences. So any deaths of their staff were deaths in action. (BTW Julios and Ethel Rosenberg were sentenced to death in those years in USA).
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Postby David Thompson on 28 Jun 2005 10:56

Karman -- Please get into the habit of providing sources for your claims, as the H&WC section rules (posted at viewtopic.php?t=53962 ) require. This will keep me from deleting your noncomplying posts.

You said:
Kutepov and Miller performed active sabotage activities against SU so their extermination fell in line with practices common in all secret services worldwide.

What sources do you have to back up the proposition that in the 1930s assassination was one of the "practices common in all secret services worldwide"?

You also said:
NTS and Radio Liberty also formed a part of Cold War and were subjected to various intellegences. So any deaths of their staff were deaths in action. (BTW Julios and Ethel Rosenberg were sentenced to death in those years in USA).

Which of the persons listed by Panzermahn as assassination victims were put on trial by Soviet courts and sentenced to death?
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Postby Acolyte on 28 Jun 2005 11:46

Does anyone have any idea about where this picture was taken? It appears to show NKVD personnel and their slain victims.
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Postby Karman on 28 Jun 2005 11:56

David Thompson wrote:Karman -- Please get into the habit of providing sources for your claims, as the H&WC section rules require. This will keep me from deleting your noncomplying posts.

You said:
Kutepov and Miller performed active sabotage activities against SU so their extermination fell in line with practices common in all secret services worldwide.

What sources do you have to back up the proposition that in the 1930s assassination was one of the "practices common in all secret services worldwide"?

You also said:
NTS and Radio Liberty also formed a part of Cold War and were subjected to various intellegences. So any deaths of their staff were deaths in action. (BTW Julios and Ethel Rosenberg were sentenced to death in those years in USA).

Which of the persons listed by Panzermahn as assassination victims were put on trial by Soviet courts and sentenced to death?


With regard to noncomplying posts. I challenged the information referring Ado Birk. That can be found in the Notes on History of Foreign Intelligence in six volumes under the editing of Maksim Primakov ( http://www.inter-rel.ru/book52.php )and also in the article of a Swiss writer of Russian origine Georgiy Vassilchikov who reviewed the case ( http://whoiswho.ru/russian/Password/jou ... /trest.htm ). Besides our Estonian colleagues can confirm that Ado Birk did not vanish in Russia but lived in Estonia till 1942.

About intelligence practices.
Gordon Brook-Shepherd. Iron Maze: The Western Secret Services and the Bolsheviks
The author recites a good story how Loyd-George authorized the assassination of Trozkiy and Lenin. They were less successful than Russians. But only this time.

Also: Richard Tomlison in Big Breach mentionned of the plans to kill Lenin and the plans to kill Milosevic and also a banch of other bad guys who were not sentenced to death by any court

About courts courts and sentences. Were Lenin and Trozkiy sentenced to death in UK?
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Postby Karman on 28 Jun 2005 12:12

David Thompson wrote:Which of the persons listed by Panzermahn as assassination victims were put on trial by Soviet courts and sentenced to death?


BTW I think that Miller was sentenced to death in accordance with Soviet legislation since he was oficially executed in 1939.

Kutepov and Trushanovich were not killed but died in the course of kidnapping

Dmitriy Navashin was not probbly a victim of NKVD. Martirosyan in his Secret Plot of Marchals said that Navashin's relatives and other emigrants thought that he was killed by some other European organization. That suspect was echoed in Foucault's Pendulum by Umberto Eco who wrote that Navashin was killed by a secret organization established by Mussolini.
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Postby Karman on 28 Jun 2005 12:16

Acolyte wrote:Does anyone have any idea about where this picture was taken? It appears to show NKVD personnel and their slain victims.


I would rather say that in Russia the legend to this picture would be: NKVD personnel (?) paying the tribute and rendering a salute to honored dead.
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Postby Karman on 28 Jun 2005 12:33

Panzermahn wrote:
lavella wrote:
Panzermahn wrote:Political murders and kidnapping perpetrated by agents of Soviet Union

a) OGPU agents gunned down Ukrainian leader, Simon Petlura, at Paris 1926,

Secret Agents, Corgi Books 1974


Salut Mr Panzermahn

Once again a false allegation 8O !
Petliura was shot (rue Racine in Paris ) by a young russian jewish emigree boy :S.Schwarzbard who survived a pogrom in Ukraine in which Petliura was the perpetrator .
At his trial Schwarzbard was brillantly defended by the famous French attorney Henri TORRES


No I did not come out with false allegation, on page 401 Chapter 8 Dark Core, Mr. Barron mentioned that OGPU agents committed it but anyhow, thanks for the info and it will go down in my notes

By the way, would this Schwarzband happened to be any member of OGPU or assassin under the pay of OGPU?

Au revoir
Panzermahn


The claim that Schwarzband worked for OGPU first appeared from a KGB agent Piotr Deriabin (Secret World) who deserted to the West in 1954. HE claimed that he once heard in KGB that Schwarzband was hired by OGPU.
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Postby David Thompson on 28 Jun 2005 15:27

Thanks for the sourcing, Karman.
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Postby Acolyte on 28 Jun 2005 16:54

Karman wrote:
Acolyte wrote:Does anyone have any idea about where this picture was taken? It appears to show NKVD personnel and their slain victims.


I would rather say that in Russia the legend to this picture would be: NKVD personnel (?) paying the tribute and rendering a salute to honored dead.


Could be - come to think of it, it makes more sense. They might as well be Red Army soldiers.
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