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Polish Terrorism in Upper Silesia 1920

Discussions on the Holocaust and 20th Century War Crimes. Note that Holocaust denial is not allowed.
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Postby walterkaschner on 21 Mar 2005 01:10

I think there may be some confusion as to precisely where the borders of Pomerania lay - or perhaps the borders were not that precisely defined. Here is what The Cambridge Modern History Atlas (at 66-8) has to say about Prussia's acquisition of Pomerania:

The Peace of Westphalia brought large additions to Brandenburg.

Pomerania, according to an agreement between Brandenburg and the Dukes of Pomerania, should have come in to Brandenburg in 1637. But Sweden was in occupation, and in 1648 Brandenburg could get only East Pomerania--and this without Stettin and a two-mile strip on the east of the Oder, which she ceded to Sweden in 1653. Ample compensation however was given her in the bishoprics of Cammin, Halberstadt, and Minden, the archbishopric of Magdeburg which she was to recieve on the death of the existing Administrator, and various other places of less importance. Later acquisitions were Lauenburg and Bütow in Pomerania, 1657, and, by the Peace of St Germain, 1679, the rip along the Oder, sundered to Sweden in 1653, except Damm and Gollnow. In 1679 Schwiebus was taken in satisfaction of the Silesian claims, but was restored in 16 and the claims were reasserted. The archbishopric of Magdeburg was acquired in 1680, and Burg in 1687.

In the great wars at the beginning of the eighteenth century the Kings of Prussia, for such the Electors of Brandenburg became in 1701, fought to secure their possessions on the Rhine and to extend their dominions on the Baltic. At Utrecht Prussia received Upper Gelders,whence she could watch Austria in the Netherlands. This, with Mörs and Lingen obtained in 1702 on the extinction of the Nassau-Dillenburg family, and Tecklenburg, obtained in 1707, went to increase her Rhineland territories. Neufchâtel also was obtained in 1707, and Prussia's possession of it was recognised at Utrecht and was maintained till 1857; but it was a distant, detached possession, and never became a centre of expansion. The Peace of Stockholm in 1720 gave Prussia a part of Swedish Pomerania, including Stettin and district, the islands of Usedom and Wollin, and Datum and Gollnow. This territory, lying between the Oder and the Peene, secured to her control of one of the
great commercial highways of northern Germany.

The various acquisitions which the Hohenzollerns had made, while they brought extensive territories under their rule, were so scattered that they needed to be linked up and consolidated, if Prussia was ever to form a strong State. To Frederick the Great the configuration of his kingdom was intolerable. He desired Saxony, West Prussia, and Swedish Pomerania. He gamed Silesia, which he seized in 1740, and which Austria finally yielded at the Peace of Hubertusburg in 1763, together
with Schwiebus and Glatz, though not Jägerndorf in the form in which Prussia had claimed it; East Friesland, in 1744, which brought Prussia to the North Sea; a part of Poland--West Prussia, Ermeland, Kolmerand and the Netze district, but not Danzig and Thorn--in 1772; and the county of Mansfeld in 1780. The Franconian possessions, Ansbach and Baireuth, came to Prussia in 1791; and in 1793 she acquired South Prusia together with Danzig--long the object of desire--and Thorn; in 1795 New East Prussia, and New Silesia with Serry. These extensive acquisitions from Poland linked up the Prussian
territories and rounded them off, and, while they diminished the length of her frontiers added to their strength. West Prussia united East Prussia and Brandenburg; South Prussia, Silesia and Prussia; while New East Prussia improved the eastern frontier. The last addition brought Prussia to her extreme eastern limits, and coincided with losses on the
Rhine at the Peace of Basel, of which we shall speak later.

Thus was built up, in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, the strangely shaped kingdom of Prussia, which stretched its great length across northern Germany from the Rhine to the Memel, with outposts in the Netherlands, Franconia, and on the Swiss frontier.


In my dotage I've yet to figure out how to scan a map into my computer and attach it to a post on the Forum, but I'll try to post the Cambridge Atlas maps here if I can solve the puzzle. They are larger and have more area names than those posted by Molobo, and clearly show Pomerania as a part of Prussia prior to the 1772 partition.

Regards, Kaschner
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Postby Molobo on 21 Mar 2005 01:26

One is that it shows Silesia as part of the Habsburg Empire at the time of the First Partition in 1772. In fact, Silesia had been transferred to the sovereignty of Prussia at the end of the War of the Austrian Succession in 1748.

Even more egregiously, it shows Hungary as still part of the Ottoman Empire in 1772, whereas it had been reconquered by the Habsburg Empire at the end of the 17th Century.

It doesn't concern Polish territories.


I think there may be some confusion as to precisely where the borders of Pomerania lay - or perhaps the borders were not that precisely defined

It might be.Despite this every source tells about the fact that Prussia took parts of Pomerani in the Partition.
http://www.wsp.krakow.pl/kbin/bss/hpol/rozbiory.html
Prusy natomiast Warmię, Pomorze bez Gdańska i Torunia, część Wielkopolski i Kujaw (ponad 36 tysięcy km2).

Prussia took took Warmia, Pomerania(without Gdansk and Torun), parts of Greater Poland and Kujawy(36 thousand km2)


http://ciesin.ci.uw.edu.pl/poland/orbis/fold_1.htm
Gdansk Pomerania and Gdansk found themselves within the boundaries of Prussia as a result of the partitions of Poland in the years 1772 and 1793. This situation lasted until the end of World War I and the rise of Reborn Poland (1918). The 20-year Polish rule of this part of Pomerania was interrupted by a new German attack on September 1, 1939
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Postby michael mills on 21 Mar 2005 01:34

Which claims?

The date of Frederick II's death?

The date of the First Polish Partition?

The date of the transfer of Silesia to Prussia?

The date of the Habsburg reconquest of Hungary?

They are all from my Colliers Encyclopedia, from the articles on "Poland" and "Frederick II", and "Hungary". If you require page numbers I will give them.

Any other statements of mine that you are concerned about?
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Postby David Thompson on 21 Mar 2005 01:50

Michael -- You're speaking to someone. Who is it?
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Postby Molobo on 21 Mar 2005 01:52

http://raven.cc.ku.edu/~eceurope/hist557/lect3-4.htm
For Catherine II, the decisive factor against allowing a weak Poland to continue to exist with all her territories under Russian oversight was the state of the Russian imperial treasury, which had been emptied by the Russo-Turkish war. Therefore, she eyed part of eastern Poland and agreed to the proposals of Frederick II who wanted to seize Polish Pomerania for Brandenburg Prussia, thus uniting the latter with East Prussia. The Austrian Empress, Maria Theresa, who had already taken a small bite of Poland (Zips) decided to seize southern Poland, which she called "Galicia-Lodomeria," claiming it on the grounds that it had once belonged to the Hungarian crown. (In fact, it had been claimed by Hungarian kings in the 12th and 13th centuries, but ruled in name only by Lazslo [Louis] the Great of Hungary, 1370-82).

Thus, by a secret partition treaty signed by the three rulers on Feb. 6 1772, the three powers seized about 28% of Polish territory. Russia took the largest piece: eastern Livonia, and and part of today's Belorussia; Austria took "Galicia-Lodomeria;" Prussia acquired Polish Pomerania and Warmia ( pron. Varmya, German: Ermland), but not Danzig (Polish: Gdansk), which the Prussians took in 1793. On September 18, 1773, the Polish Seym, surrounded by Russian troops, approved the loss of these Polish lands


The Prussians, who had, in 1772, taken Polish Pomerania (called the Polish Corridor by the Germans after it returned to Poland in 1919), besieged Danzig/Gdansk for seven weeks in 1793
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Postby walterkaschner on 21 Mar 2005 01:54

I've also looked in The Times Atlas of World History (which I had forgotten I owned), and although there was no map showing the partitions of Poland as such, there was a small map (p.90) showing "the Rise of Prussia", which indicates that Prussia acquired what it denominates as "Eastern Pomerania" in 1648 and "Western Pomerania" in 1720. It also shows Silesia as acquired in 1742.

In addition, it contains a map of the German States as of 1648, and shows a border between what is designated as "Pomerania" on the Prussian side, and "Pomerelia" on the Polish side.

Now, although I seem to have mastered the art of scanning, I'm still unable to attach the maps from the Cambridge Atlas to this post, as I continue to receive a message that the extension "bmp" is not allowed. So the maps will have to wait until I can figure that one out.

Regards, Kaschner
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Postby Molobo on 21 Mar 2005 01:59

and "Pomerelia" on the Polish side.

Pomeralia is the name for the eastern part of Pomerania, in polish though there is no such distinction.Pomerania and Pomeralia are "Pomorze"=Pomerania, the name Gdansk Pomerania exists though.

Evidence for ethnic and religious discrimination under Frederick :
http://polska.info.pl/Portal.new/index.php?a=s&s=158
(From history of the Polish city of Starograd)
Szlachta katolicka płaciła 25% od zysku z posiadanych dóbr, szlachta niemiecka i protestancka płaciła 20%. Skonfiskowano dobra kościelne (drobna ich część oddano duchowieństwu w dzierżawę), ludność żydowską wysiedlono (z wyjątkiem osób najzamożniejszych).

Catholic nobility had to pay 25 % of taxes from possesions, german and protestant nobility paid only 20%. Church goods were confiscated, jewish population was expelled(only the wealthiest persons could remain).


Another map:
Image

As it can be seen parts of Pomerania and Greater Poland were taken by Prussia in First Partition.
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Postby walterkaschner on 21 Mar 2005 02:57

One learns something every day on this Forum! Here is an article I find by Googelizing "Pomerania" on the web. It's from the Colombia Electronic Encyclopedia at:

http://reference.allrefer.com/encyclope ... story.html

Pomerania, German Political Geography

Related Category: German Political Geography
Pomerania[pom´´urA´nEu] Pronunciation Key - History

By the 10th cent. A.D., when its recorded history began, Pomerania was inhabited by Slavic tribes. It was conquered by Boleslaus I (992–1025) of Poland but became an independent duchy early in the 11th cent. Poland regained control in the 12th cent. and introduced Christianity. The country was split into two principalities. Pomerelia, as E Pomerania came to be known, became independent in 1227, was annexed to Poland in 1294, and was taken in 1308–9 by the Teutonic Knights, who incorporated it into their domain in East Prussia. The histories of Pomerania and Pomerelia after 1308 must be traced separately.

Pomerelia, including Danzig, was formally restored by the Teutonic Knights to Poland at the Treaty of Torun of 1466. Although frequently overrun in the wars of the following three centuries, it remained an integral part of Poland until the first Polish partition (1772), when it passed to Prussia and was constituted into the province of West Prussia. In 1919 part of West Prussia was given to Poland (see Polish Corridor). After the outbreak (1939) of World War II, Germany reannexed the independent state of Danzig and the Pomeranian region of Poland. These areas were returned to Poland in 1945.

Pomerania continued as a duchy of the Holy Roman Empire until the death (1637) of Bogislav XIV, when the region was granted to the elector of Brandenburg. The Peace of Westphalia (1648) gave Hither Pomerania (Vorpommern) : i.e., the western part, with Stettin, Stralsund, and the island of RUgen : to Sweden, while Farther Pomerania (Hinterpommern) : i.e., the eastern part, with Stargard : went to the electorate of Brandenburg (after 1701, the kingdom of Prussia). In 1720, as a result of the Northern War, Sweden lost about half of its part of Pomerania (including Stettin but not Stralsund) to Prussia. In the rest of Swedish Pomerania, the kings of Sweden remained princes of the Holy Roman Empire until the dissolution of the empire in 1806.

Napoleon I overran Swedish Pomerania in the War of the Third Coalition but restored it on making peace with Sweden in 1809. In the Treaty of Kiel (1814), Sweden exchanged Pomerania with Denmark in return for Norway, but at the Congress of Vienna (1815) Denmark ceded its share of Pomerania to Prussia, receiving the duchy of Lauenburg in return. Thus, from 1815 to 1919, all Pomerania and all Pomerelia were in Prussian hands.

Pomerania had by then been thoroughly Germanized; Pomerelia, like the rest of Prussian Poland, was subjected to intense Germanization. After the transfer in 1945 of the larger part of Pomerania to Polish administration, the German-speaking population was largely expelled. The most important cities in the region : Danzig, Stralsund, Stettin, Stargard, Torun, Chetmno, and Marienburg (Malbork) : were, for a long time, flourishing members of the Hanseatic League; by the 17th cent., however, they had lost the virtual independence they had enjoyed during the greatness of the League. [My emphasis.]


Apparently German and English cartographers and historians recognized the distinction between Pomerania and Pomerelia, while the Poles did not, even though it had existed since 1308.

Regards, Kaschner
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Postby Molobo on 21 Mar 2005 09:10

The histories of Pomerania and Pomerelia after 1308 must be traced separately.


Apparently German and English cartographers and historians recognized the distinction between Pomerania and Pomerelia, while the Poles did not, even though it had existed since 1308.

It seems to me the division only serves a justification of territorial conquest and is historical rather then geographical.The term Pomorze Gdanskie or Gdansk Pomerania is used in Polish-stating the fact that it is part of Pomerania region, rather then giving it a wholy different name.
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Postby szopen on 21 Mar 2005 11:35

michael mills wrote:I am afraid that you have been let down again by the gaps in your knowledge of history.

Not really.

Great Poland (Wielkopolska) was annexed by Prussia and renamed the Posen Province in 1793, during the Second partition.

Not really. Most where taken in second partition, but not all. Besides, this was general remark.

The only territory of the Polish Rzeczpospolita annexed by Prussia during the lifetime of Frederick II was Pomerelia, or West Prussia, taken in 1772 during the First Partition.


In other words, Gdansk Pomerania (Pomorze Gdanskie).

Furthermore, Pomerania had been part of the Holy Roman Empire for many centuries, and a Hohenzollern possession well before Frederick II became King of Prussia.


Not really. Only western Pomerania, that is Stettin Pomerania (Pomorze Szczecinskie).


long been part of the German State (the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation), and had become ethnically German for the greater part.


I'm affraid you are led astray by reading too many German nationalist literature, which shows being in HRE the same as being part of "Germany", so they for example count times when Silesia where part of Bohemian crown as part where it was "German", or forget that in some regions ethnic composition changed only in XVI or even XVII century.
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Postby szopen on 21 Mar 2005 11:39

As for distinction between "Pomerelia" and "Pommern" in German, it's quite arteficial. Much better is Polish Szczecinskie, SLupskie, Gdanskie, since it much better reflects reality: that it had common origin (Pomorze) but different history (Gdanskie, Szczecinkie, sometimes also Slupskie is used) and both were inhabited by Kaszubs.

Anyway I'm not sure what to think about someone, who is claiming that i don't know history of my own country only because I wrote "Pomerania" instead of "Gdansk Pomerania".
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Postby walterkaschner on 21 Mar 2005 19:57

Pomeralia is the name for the eastern part of Pomerania, in polish though there is no such distinction.Pomerania and Pomeralia are "Pomorze"=Pomerania, the name Gdansk Pomerania exists though.


In rereading the last few posts, I am not only reminded of Lewis Carroll, but even more so of that brilliant Polish philosopher-semanticist Alfred Korzybski, who trenchantly observed (perhaps under the influence of René Magritte) that "The map is not the territory."

There does indeed seem to be a semantic problem, but I find it passing strange that Polish fails to differentiate between the two areas, which had been separated for well over 450 years prior to the First Partition. It would almost be as if neither English nor Spanish failed to differentiate between Mexico on the one hand and Texas, California, Utah, Arizona and New Mexico on the other.

But so be it.

Not completely off-topic I think, but nearing the edge, is another favorite Korzybski observation:

"There are two ways to slide easily through life: to believe everything or to doubt everything. Both ways save us from thinking."

Regards, Kaschner
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Postby Molobo on 21 Mar 2005 20:06

There does indeed seem to be a semantic problem, but I find it passing strange that Polish fails to differentiate between the two areas, which had been separated for well over 450 years prior to the First Partition. It would almost be as if neither English nor Spanish failed to differentiate between Mexico on the one hand and Texas, California, Utah, Arizona and New Mexico on the other.

Pomerania is a geographic not a political name.
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Postby szopen on 22 Mar 2005 08:36

Walter, this is indeed semantic problem, but it's not that strange. E.g. Prussians used named Prussia for Eastern Pomerania and Prussia, despite different ethnic ocmposition and despite it were separated for three hundred years. Russians used "Rus'" for description of totally different states. So there is nothing really strange for using "Pomorze" for countries, which continously were called Pomorze in Polish through whole their history (with episodically appearing other names).

Sayign that, let me remind that "where is Pomerania" thread was started by people who wanted to discredit me because "I don't know history".

As for your quote, while I totally agree with it, I don't know to whom you are trying to apply it and why you have used it at all. Is this because some peopel here blindly believe that nationalism and ethnic hatred didn't exist before XIX century? Is it because some can't admit that Friderick didn't exactly liked Poles and tried to wipe the nation from his lands ? (not by ohysically killing everyone, but by changing Poles into Germans, but that's not that big difference - the effect is the same).
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Postby Molobo on 22 Mar 2005 16:56

Is it because some can't admit that Friderick didn't exactly liked Poles and tried to wipe the nation from his lands ? (not by ohysically killing everyone, but by changing Poles into Germans, but that's not that big difference - the effect is the same).

I have heard that Adolf Hitler admired Frederick(it could be because of that).Can anybody confirm that or present views of Hitler on Frederick II ?
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