Italian Dragoons and Lancers in WWII?

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KVLT 45
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Italian Dragoons and Lancers in WWII?

#1

Post by KVLT 45 » 06 Feb 2005, 13:51

Hello. I am wondering what the differences were between the Dragoon and Lancer regiments of the Celere/Cavalry divisions. Was it just some kind of tradition and they really are just plain cavalry units? Also, what is the Italian word for Dragoon(s) and Lancer(s)?

5th Lancers Novara Regiment
9th Lancers Firenze Regiment
10th Lancers Vittorio Emanuele II Regiment
3rd Dragoons Savoia Regiment

and finally.. Im wondering why the Italians didnt have a rank or unit type called "Condottieri" because I have read a lot that Mussolini loved their history and named many navy ships after famous Condottieri. Does "Condottier" translate into English? Im not even sure if its a rank or type of infantry or something.

Thank you for any help.

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DrG
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#2

Post by DrG » 06 Feb 2005, 16:17

As far as I know the names of those cavalry regiments were just for traditional reasons; Dragoons = Dragoni; Lancers = Lancieri (easy, isn't it? ;)).
Condottieri means leaders/commanders (the etimology is from the verb condurre, from the Latin cum ducere = to lead [somebody] along with [him]), it is the way the Italian military leaders of the Lower Middle Age / early Modern Age were/are called; in common Italian language it means simply (military) leader, moreover if used for a contemporary leader it sounds a bit rhetoric. Thus, there hasn't been a tradition of units of condottieri, because it would have been meaningless: there cannot be a unit made only of commanders.


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rcristi2271
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#3

Post by rcristi2271 » 06 Feb 2005, 16:26

There was a Regia Marina light cruisers class called "Condottieri".

Cheers
Chris

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Lupo Solitario
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Re: Italian Dragoons and Lancers in WWII?

#4

Post by Lupo Solitario » 06 Feb 2005, 16:33

KVLT 45 wrote:Hello. I am wondering what the differences were between the Dragoon and Lancer regiments of the Celere/Cavalry divisions. Was it just some kind of tradition and they really are just plain cavalry units? Also, what is the Italian word for Dragoon(s) and Lancer(s)?

5th Lancers Novara Regiment
9th Lancers Firenze Regiment
10th Lancers Vittorio Emanuele II Regiment
3rd Dragoons Savoia Regiment

and finally.. Im wondering why the Italians didnt have a rank or unit type called "Condottieri" because I have read a lot that Mussolini loved their history and named many navy ships after famous Condottieri. Does "Condottier" translate into English? Im not even sure if its a rank or type of infantry or something.

Thank you for any help.
At the end of XIX century, Italian cavalry was reorganized on four specialties: two heavy (Cavalieri "Horsemen" and Dragoni "Dragoons") and two light (Lancieri "Lancers" and Cavalleggeri "Light Horsemen"). On this base there were:

2 dragoons regiments: 1st "Nizza" and 4th "Genova"
2 horsemen regiments: 2nd "Piemonte Reale" and 3rd "Savoia"
8 lancers regiments: 5th-10th and 23rd-24th
18 light horse regiments: 11th-22nd and 25th-30th

At WWII eve there was no more practical difference and all cavalry regiments had same structure and duties (BTW 3rd "Savoia Cavalry" was NOT a dragoon unit, as over noted).

About "Condottieri", the meaning is that given by DrG. The "Condottieri" class was a group of four light cruisers of italian navy built around 1930 (Alberto Di Giussano, Alberico da Barbiano, Giovanni Dalle Bande Nere, Bartolomeo Colleoni) named after four italian mercenary captains of Middle Ages/Renaissance.
Italian Army has no much tradition about naming units after persons (with some exception anyway)

KVLT 45
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#5

Post by KVLT 45 » 07 Feb 2005, 01:32

great information! Thank you very much.

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