Switzerland and WWII

[Aufklarung]

[quote="Logan Hartke] Turkey recieved Fw 190s to fly alongside their P-40s and Hurricanes while escorting Blenheims. Logan Hartke[/quote]

190s? That is weird. When did Turkey get FW190s? Quando? This is news to me, Logan.

Regards
A

[The Desert Fox]

The Royal Hungarian Air Force (Magyar Kiralyi Legiero) flew 109s from about 1943 onwards and their top scorer was Sgt Deszo Szentgyorgyi. 34 Victories. The picture is of a the commander of 5/I vadasz osztaly (fighter group), Aladar de Heppes von Belenyes alesredes. photo credit to A de heppes.

A

I always assumed pilots where officers in their respective airforces much like Doctors are in the medical corps. This Sgt pilot Deszo SZentgyorgyi did he survive the war?

regards
The Desert Fox

[The Desert Fox]

Turkey recieved Fw 190s to fly alongside their P-40s and Hurricanes while escorting Blenheims. The ground forces operated T-26s alongside PzKpfw IIIs and IVs, too. Isn't that wierd?
Logan Hartke

Certainly would have been a strange sight to see, aircraft from both sides of the front flying in support of each other. Do you have any knowledge of how long these aircraft remain in service post war? I read that the fledging Israli airforce used some BF -109s in the war of 1948. What sort of service did these german aircraft have in the Turkish airforce?

regards
The Desert Fox

[Aufklarung]

I always assumed pilots where officers in their respective airforces much like Doctors are in the medical corps. This Sgt pilot Deszo SZentgyorgyi did he survive the war?

regards
The Desert Fox

I really don't know about him surviving the war. Perhaps someone else here can answer.

Sgt Pilots were not that uncommon. Canada, UK, Aus, NZ, S. Africa etc all had that rank ansd qual in WWII.

As for the 190s, my thinking was that that A/C was not really introduced that early and weren't the Turkey issues with the Allies largely resolved by then?

Logan,
Where did you get your data?

Regards
A

[Juha Tompuri]

Erik,
We did not understand to buy the "things" we would need early enough, so that we could have chosen what we would have needed. 1939 we were late: we had to beg, steal and borrow what ever was available. Not very much asking what it would cost.
From your country we got for instance:
dozen 75mm cannons+ 12000 shells (donated)
90000 skiing shoes (good quality: you after all being the 2th best skiing country in the world)
37000 rucksacks
55000m textile material
40000 snowcoats(?)
695 volunteer soldiers (two killed) and volunteers helping us in building fortifications.

Thanks for helping us, although after few months you would have needed them yourself.

JT

P.S. After german occupation of your country we also received seven ( He115, 3Hover MF 11, 2Fokker CVD and DH Tiger Moth) aeropanes flown to us out of german hands.

[Juha Tompuri]

Erik,
I forgot the norwegian Curtiss Hawk 75A planes we bought from the germans at 1941.

JT

[Erik E]

Interesting numbers you have there... The Norwegian statement is a little bit higher for every entry. I would guess that the Finnish airforce had quite a large stock for spare parts.

you after all being the 2th best skiing country in the world

This is a good one

EE

[Windward]

I read somewhere (sorry forgot the source) that Mussolini planned in 1940 to invade Switzerland, Yugoslavia or Greece to grace his Fascist Italy, and chose the "weakest" Greece at last. Was it historical fact?

[Kaan Caglar]

Turkey received 72 FW 190 Aa-3 (a for ausiandisch - foreign) aircraft between October 1942 and March 1943. These aircraft were basically FW 190 A-3s without FuG 25 radio equipment, and with an armament fit of two MG 17s and two MG FF/M cannon. No armament was carried in the wingroots.

The Turkish FW 190s served as fighters during their time in service, and left the Turkish Air Force in 1948 and 1949. Basic camouflage scheme for these aircraft was RLM 70/71, with RLM 65 undersides. There is speculation that RLM 76 or RLM 02 light mottling was used on the tail and fuselage sides of FW 190 Aa-3s. Other sources state that RLM 74/75/76 was the standard camouflage scheme for the FW 190Aa-3. Around 1945, some of these aircraft were painted in overall dark green. Four Turkish squadrons flew the FW 190 Aa-3, including the 5th Regiment's 3rd and 5th Squadrons. The four Squadrons were nicknamed Akbas (Whitehead), Saribas (Blondehead), Albas (Redhead) and Karabas (Blackhead), with their propeller spinners matching colours with their nicknames.

In Bursa:



Two Turkish FW 190 Aa-3s in flight with a Turkish Spitfire:

Best Regards!
Kaan

[Mauser K98k]

...... did any foreign pilot flying german aircraft make a name for himself as an Ace during ww2?

Look here under Romania, Bulgaria, Spain & Hungary.
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/aces.htm

[wlvanbesien]

Switzerland has a very rugged terrian which would make conquering difficult, also the swiss would be determined to protect their homeland. And with the battle of britain and russia he had bigger things to worry about.

Switzerland had potentially the best prepared army in the world. From primary school, children were taught to fire guns. It was required by law that each man keep his rifle and uniform at his home so he could be called up in a moments notice. All 20 year old Swiss males served for one year in the military, and after that took a 2 week refresher course each year. Within hours of the outbreak of war nearly all of Switzerlands military was mobilized. A "mountain redoubt" was planned and constructed and occupied roughly half the country. This "mountain redoubt" held stores of food and ammunition to hold out for years. Not only that, but every Swiss town was in some way turned into a fortress... AT spikes and ditches went around all roads leading into a town and sandbag bunkers were set up around the corners of town. Also, Switzerland during ww2 had the highest percentage of population in military service in the world at roughly 10% of the entire population. This was more than any beligerent power. So in my opinion, maybe if Germany and Italy REALLY wanted to take over Switzerland they could have, but they certainly would have paid a HELL of a price. Also, Swiss fighters defeated the Luftwaffe in almost any engagement over Swiss airspace.

[panzertruppe2001]

I know some incidents that were mentioned above between German and Swiss Bf 109 in 1940 and 1943.
In 1943 some Flying Fortress and Liberators tried to land in Switzerland after being damaged. They were confiscated by Swiss government
I do not remember that in 1943 or 1944 an American fighter destroyed 2 Swiss Bf 109 that were escorting Liberators that violated the Swiss sky.
Some German bombers attacked a Swiss village in 1940 by mistake.

[sheriff]

Switzerland had potentially the best prepared army in the world.

This statement is far from the truth. Although Switzerland could muster a large body of men, they were neither well trained nor well equiped.
Prior to 1935, the upkeep and development, both technically and doctrinally, had been negelcted in the hope that no other great war like WWI could ever happen again.
After 1935, a frantic activity began, but they still lacked in 1939.

Take a look at the equipment:

Tanks: 24 (chzechian tanks of the model Praga, ared with a 1inch gun)
Heavy Artillery: 286 (some dating back to 1882)
Anti Air Guns: 44 Total
Anti Tank guns: 823 (mainly 4.7cm caliber)
Figher Planes: 86 (Primarily Me109 D and E and Morane Saulniers)

To top it all of, the majority of the heavy equipment needed to bought in other countries, as switzerland itself lacked the raw materials and production facilities to produce them themself.

Doctrine:

In 1339 the mobilized swiss army took a line along the rivers Rhine and Limmat, with the left flank leaning against the french maginot line.
In secret negotiations, the french aggreed to send 2 army corps and heavy artilleriy in support in the case the germance attacked switzerland.
After the fall of France, this all changed.
Switzerland was now largely surrounded and a frontier defense was not any longer possible.
In a move the was hotly discussed, General Guisan decided to pull back the majority of the army into the mountains in a "national reduit" to be built, which favored the infantry-heavy army.
Work begann in 1940, although many projects was not finished in 1945 (some bunkers were at that time still not equipped with guns).

Although the spirit of resistance was strong, the same could not be said about the swiss army.

[Ice-Titian]

Hello ! Many of you are well informed about WWII and shure are able to give reasonable and stable comments about being "neutral" in Europe during those horrible years of WWII.
Looking behind the "political neutrality" of Switzerland do you think that there were other reason on why Hitler didn't invade Switzerland ? What do you think generally of Switzerland towards WWII ?
Also for the veterans, what do you think their opinion was about Switzerland during the 1940's while fighting in Europe?

Eagerly waiting for some comments !

-The Reson why Hitler did not invade Switzerland,was because that was where all his money went and Switerland also gave Germany guns,bullets,etc when Germany was being bombed.

[sheriff]

-The Reson why Hitler did not invade Switzerland,was because that was where all his money went and Switerland also gave Germany guns,bullets,etc when Germany was being bombed.

Ah, whole years of scientific reports summarised in one sentence.


I advice to read the Bergier Report, as it is to date to most accurate description of the dealings of Switzerland and Germany.

How could Switzerland be such an important weapon manufactuer when the trade between switzerland and germany amounted to 0.1% of the german war spendings?