Hi guys, I have a rather complicated question and I hope that someone can help.
1. When and how did Mussolini announce his intention to send 8th Army to the Russian Front? Are there any accounts from the period of the Italian people's reaction? Also, was there any opposition from the Military to this diversion of resources to the East?
2. How were the divisions that were sent to Russia picked? Was the 8th Army in existence before Mussolini's decision to send it East or was the Army assembled from otherwise unemployed Divisions?
3. What are the best sources in English for the decision behind sending 8th Army and the assembling of that Army?
4. Was there ever any explanation for sending 8th Army to Russia without more than a handful of tanks and armored vehicles?
Thanks in advance.
Best Regards,
David
Italy and Russia
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David C. Clarke
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Lupo Solitario
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let see...
1) Mussolini was just thinking to an enlargement of CSIR in July 1941 but was stopped by lack of materials. The project was accepted by JCS Cavallero but opposed by CSIR commander, Messe.
In November 1941 Hitler asked for italian alpine troops. In december Mussolini offered to triplicate italian contingent in change for german materials for north africa. Military never made an opposition but stress on permanent lack of materials. No particular reactions from people is reported (but personal efforts to avoid destination)
2) the structure of ARMIR was decided between January and April 1942. The three alpine divisions were picked between greek front veterans, the three infantry were taken from the army guarding italo-french border (it was practically the main bulk of disposable italian forces). The 8th Army Command was reactivated May 1st, 1942
3) I ignore, sorry...
4) well, first, I believe, the project was for a mountain army and, second, the permanent lack of materials: practically entire italian production of AFV was absorbed by NA needs. Also finding all trucks for ARMIR had been a trouble. It should be anyway reported that projected OOB showed also an armored AT group and an armored recon regiment.
at your dispo, Old Faithful
Lupo
1) Mussolini was just thinking to an enlargement of CSIR in July 1941 but was stopped by lack of materials. The project was accepted by JCS Cavallero but opposed by CSIR commander, Messe.
In November 1941 Hitler asked for italian alpine troops. In december Mussolini offered to triplicate italian contingent in change for german materials for north africa. Military never made an opposition but stress on permanent lack of materials. No particular reactions from people is reported (but personal efforts to avoid destination)
2) the structure of ARMIR was decided between January and April 1942. The three alpine divisions were picked between greek front veterans, the three infantry were taken from the army guarding italo-french border (it was practically the main bulk of disposable italian forces). The 8th Army Command was reactivated May 1st, 1942
3) I ignore, sorry...
4) well, first, I believe, the project was for a mountain army and, second, the permanent lack of materials: practically entire italian production of AFV was absorbed by NA needs. Also finding all trucks for ARMIR had been a trouble. It should be anyway reported that projected OOB showed also an armored AT group and an armored recon regiment.
at your dispo, Old Faithful
Lupo
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Luca Rovetta
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Hi, Lupo said more or less the same things that i knew. These are the troops sended in Russia (i'm not sure, but it's a began, please excuse my translation errors) during '41/'43:
Division "PASUBIO", 79° e 80° Infantry Reg., 8° Artillery Reg.
Division "TORINO", 81° e 82° Infantry Reg. 52° Artillery Reg.
Division "COSSERIA", 87° & 90° Infantry Reg., 108° Artillery Reg.
Division "RAVENNA"37° & 38° Infantry Reg., 121° Artillery Reg.
Division "VICENZA"277° & 278° Infantry Reg.
Division "SFORZESCA", 53° & 54° Infantry Reg., 17° Artillery Reg.
Division "CELERE" P.A.D.A ., 3° & 6° Bersaglieri Reg., 120° Artillery, horses artillery "Alessandra", fast tanks "San
Giorgio"
Alpine Division "JULIA" 8° & 9° Alpine Reg., 3° Alpine Artillery Reg., 3° Batt. Alpine Engineers
Alpine Division "TRIDENTINA" 5° & 6° Alpine Reg., 2° Alpine Artillery Reg., 2° Batt. Alpine Engineers
Alpine Division "CUNEENSE" 1° & 2° Alpine Reg., 4° Alpine Artillery Reg., 4° Batt. Alpine Engineers
Horses gathering (Raggruppamento a cavallo?) Reg."SAVOIA CAVALLERIA" & Regg."LANCIERI DI NOVARA"
Gathering (Raggruppamento?) C.C.N.N. (Camicie Nere) "3 GENNAIO", Group "Montebello", Group "Tagliamento"
Gathering C.C.N.N. "23 MARZO", Group "Leonessa", group "Valle Scrivia"
Artillery of "Corpo d'Armata": 30° Raggruppamento, 2° Raggruppamento, 2° Regiment
Reparti 'armata (Army Detachments?):
Skiers Battalion "MONTE CERVINO", Carabinieri Granatieri
1° e 2° Batt. Bridge Engineers, 26° Genio Artieri, 201° Artilley Reg. & 9° Raggruppamento Artiglieria, 4° Anti Aircraft Reg., Drivers Service Corp, HealthService Corp, Catering Corp, Commissariat Corp, Sappers Battalion, 10° Battalion Railway Workers, 60° Workers Group
Fleet: 1° e 19° Squadron, "MAS" 11° Squadron S.M.G.- C.B, 101° Squadron Assault Crafts "X MAS"
Aviation: 22° Fighter Group, 61° Reconnaissance Group
Bye
Division "PASUBIO", 79° e 80° Infantry Reg., 8° Artillery Reg.
Division "TORINO", 81° e 82° Infantry Reg. 52° Artillery Reg.
Division "COSSERIA", 87° & 90° Infantry Reg., 108° Artillery Reg.
Division "RAVENNA"37° & 38° Infantry Reg., 121° Artillery Reg.
Division "VICENZA"277° & 278° Infantry Reg.
Division "SFORZESCA", 53° & 54° Infantry Reg., 17° Artillery Reg.
Division "CELERE" P.A.D.A ., 3° & 6° Bersaglieri Reg., 120° Artillery, horses artillery "Alessandra", fast tanks "San
Giorgio"
Alpine Division "JULIA" 8° & 9° Alpine Reg., 3° Alpine Artillery Reg., 3° Batt. Alpine Engineers
Alpine Division "TRIDENTINA" 5° & 6° Alpine Reg., 2° Alpine Artillery Reg., 2° Batt. Alpine Engineers
Alpine Division "CUNEENSE" 1° & 2° Alpine Reg., 4° Alpine Artillery Reg., 4° Batt. Alpine Engineers
Horses gathering (Raggruppamento a cavallo?) Reg."SAVOIA CAVALLERIA" & Regg."LANCIERI DI NOVARA"
Gathering (Raggruppamento?) C.C.N.N. (Camicie Nere) "3 GENNAIO", Group "Montebello", Group "Tagliamento"
Gathering C.C.N.N. "23 MARZO", Group "Leonessa", group "Valle Scrivia"
Artillery of "Corpo d'Armata": 30° Raggruppamento, 2° Raggruppamento, 2° Regiment
Reparti 'armata (Army Detachments?):
Skiers Battalion "MONTE CERVINO", Carabinieri Granatieri
1° e 2° Batt. Bridge Engineers, 26° Genio Artieri, 201° Artilley Reg. & 9° Raggruppamento Artiglieria, 4° Anti Aircraft Reg., Drivers Service Corp, HealthService Corp, Catering Corp, Commissariat Corp, Sappers Battalion, 10° Battalion Railway Workers, 60° Workers Group
Fleet: 1° e 19° Squadron, "MAS" 11° Squadron S.M.G.- C.B, 101° Squadron Assault Crafts "X MAS"
Aviation: 22° Fighter Group, 61° Reconnaissance Group
Bye
I think a more suitable translation for Raggrupamento is Group, instead of Gathering.Luca Rovetta wrote:Horses gathering (Raggruppamento a cavallo?) Reg."SAVOIA CAVALLERIA" & Regg."LANCIERI DI NOVARA"
Gathering (Raggruppamento?) C.C.N.N. (Camicie Nere) "3 GENNAIO", Group "Montebello", Group "Tagliamento"
Gathering C.C.N.N. "23 MARZO", Group "Leonessa", group "Valle Scrivia"
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Luca Rovetta
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I'm not an expert of army organisation but in italian "Raggruppamento" & "Gruppo" means two different things.
A "Raggruppamento" is formed by two or more "Gruppo" ("Gruppi" at plural); but i have no idea how to represent this in other languages.
I also don't know if this is relevant or just a secondary thing.
Bye
A "Raggruppamento" is formed by two or more "Gruppo" ("Gruppi" at plural); but i have no idea how to represent this in other languages.
I also don't know if this is relevant or just a secondary thing.
Bye
Interesting thread.
Could someone give us (erm... okay, me) an idea of how large a typical "Gruppo" of cavalry was - i.e. its fighting strength - and then of course a similar description of a typical "Raggruppamento"? It may help in pinning down a good term in English - or maybe just help me to see what size unit it was.
Thanks
Zygmunt
Could someone give us (erm... okay, me) an idea of how large a typical "Gruppo" of cavalry was - i.e. its fighting strength - and then of course a similar description of a typical "Raggruppamento"? It may help in pinning down a good term in English - or maybe just help me to see what size unit it was.
Thanks
Zygmunt
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Lupo Solitario
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Considerations about italian terms "Gruppo" and "Raggruppamento" at:
http://www.comandosupremo.com/phpBB2/vi ... php?t=1971
anyway in italian cavalry a "Gruppo" is a battalion while a "Raggruppamento" is a provisional joining of forces between regiment and division. The trouble is that either terms traslate in english as "group"
bye
Lupo
http://www.comandosupremo.com/phpBB2/vi ... php?t=1971
anyway in italian cavalry a "Gruppo" is a battalion while a "Raggruppamento" is a provisional joining of forces between regiment and division. The trouble is that either terms traslate in english as "group"
bye
Lupo
Hello! This OOB was drawn primarily from Le Operaazioni Delle Unità Italiane Al Fronte Russo (1941-1943) by the Stato Maggiore Dell’Esercito – Ufficio Storico (General Staff of the Army – Historical Office), Rome, 2000 (3rd Edition). I’ve added a few details throughout from a smattering of other sources. Please feel free to add any corrections/additions.
Best regards,
Shawn
P.S. I apologize for the curious mixture of English and Italian terms. As has already been noted in this thread, some Italian unit designations are difficult to translate literally into English.
10 December 1942 (OOB from north to south)
Army Group B (Generaloberst Maximilian Freiherr von und zu Weichs an der Glon)
Italian 8th Army or Armata Italiana in Russia (A.R.M.I.R.) (Generale d’Armata Italo Gariboldi)
• Chief of Staff: Generale di Divisione Bruno Malaguti
• Artillery Commander: Generale di Divisione Mario Balotta
• Engineer Commander: Generale di Divisione Arnaldo Forgiero
• Commander of Chemical Troops: Tenente Colonnello Cesiro Mischi
• Aviation Commander: Generale di Brigata Aerea Enrico Pezzi – 21o Gruppo Autonomo (Maggiore Ettore Foschini) composed of the 356a, 361a, 382a and 386a Squadriglie equipped Macchi C.200 “Saetta” fighters. In September 1942, twelve Macchi C.202 “Folgore” fighters plus two photographic-reconnaissance variants joined the group in Russia; 71o Gruppo Autonomo Osservazione Aerea composed of the 38a and 116a Squadriglie equipped with Caproni Ca.311 and Fiat Br.20 “Cicogna” aircraft.
• Intendant General: Generale di Brigata Carlo Biglino
• German General with the Italian 8th Army: General der Infanterie Kurt von Tippelskirch, 27 August 1942-1 February 1943.
• Chief of the General Staff of the German General with the Italian 8th Army: Oberst Walter Nagel, 18 September 1942-5 January 1943; Generalmajor Dr. phil. Hans Speidel, 5 January 1943-5 February 1943.
Army-Level Assets:
• Raggruppamento truppe a cavallo (Generale di Brigata Guglielmo Barbò di Casel Morano) – 3rd “Savoia Cavalleria” Regiment (Colonnello Alessandro Bettoni Cazzago) and 5th “Lancieri di Novara” Regiment (Colonnello Carlo Pagliano). The bulk of the two regiments had been removed to the rear for care of the horses; not employable in the winter season.
• 9º Raggruppamento Artiglieria d’Armata. As of 10 December 1942, all six of this organization’s artillery groups were farmed out to the four corps as reinforcements.
• 201o Regimmento Artiglieria Motorizzato (Colonnello Enrico Altaville) – I, II, III Gruppo da 75/32 (three batteries each). As of 10 December 1942, the III Gruppo was farmed out to the II Corps as reinforcement.
• 4º Raggruppamento Artiglieria contraerei (Colonnello Giuseppe di Martino) – IV and XIX Gruppo cannoni da 75/46 (two batteries each); XXXVI, XXXVII and XXXVIII Gruppo cannoni da 75/46 (three batteries each).
• 31st, 40th, 42nd and 65th Antiaircraft Batteries (20mm)
Italian Alpine Corps (Generale di Corpo d’Armata Gabriele Nasci)
Chief of Staff: Colonnello Giulio Martinat
Artillery Commander: Generale di Brigata Carlo Filippi
Engineer Commander: Generale di Brigata Cesare Tamassia
Line Divisions:
• 2nd Tridentina Alpine Division (Generale di Brigata Luigi Reverberi) – 6th and 5th Alpine Regiments (Colonnello Paolo Signorini and Colonnello Giuseppe Adam respectively) and 2nd Alpine Artillery Regiment (Colonnello Federico Moro).
• 3rd Julia Alpine Division (Generale di Brigata Umberto Ricagno*) – 9th and 8th Alpine Regiments (Colonnello Fausto Lavizzari and Colonnello Armando Cimolino respectively) and 3rd Alpine Artillery Regiment (Colonnello Pietro Gay).
• 4th Cuneense Alpine Division (Generale di Divisione Emilio Battisti**) – 1st and 2nd Alpine Regiments (Colonnello Luigi Manfredi and Colonnello Luigi Scrimin respectively) and 4th Alpine Artillery Regiment (Colonnello Enrico Orlandi).
Organic Corps Assets:
• 11º Raggruppamento Artiglieria di Corpo d’Armata – LI, LII and LIII Gruppo cannoni da 105/32; CXVII Gruppo obici da 149/13.
• 39th and 41st Antiaircraft Batteries (20mm)
Additional Army-Level Reinforcements:
• Alpine Ski Battalion “Monte Cervino” (Tenente Colonnello Mario D’Adda)
• Squadron grouping of dismounted cavalry from the Raggruppamento truppe a cavallo (see note above).
• Horse Artillery Regiment (Colonnello Domenico Montella) – without horses; removed to the rear.
• XXXII Gruppo cannoni da 149/40 of the 9º Raggruppamento Artiglieria di Corpo d’Armata
• XXIV Gruppo cannoni da 149/28 of the 9º Raggruppamento Artiglieria di Corpo d’Armata
• German Artillery Regiment 612
Italian II Corps (Generale di Corpo d’Armata Giovanni Zanghieri)
Chief of Staff: Colonnello Ugo Almici
Artillery Commander: Generale di Brigata Italo Giglio
Engineer Commander: Generale di Brigata Balilla Rima
Line Divisions:
• 5th Cosseria Infantry Division (Generale di Divisione Enrico Gazzale; Divisional Infantry Commander: Generale di Brigata Vincenzo Robertiello) – 89th and 90th Salerno Infantry Regiments (Colonnello Paolino Maggio and Tenente Colonnello Giacomo Lapenna respectively) and 108th Artillery Regiment (Colonnello Ernesto Drommi) + German Grenadier Regiment 318 (Oberst Erich Mielke)***.
• 3rd Ravenna Infantry Division (Generale di Brigata Francesco Dupont; Divisional Infantry Commander: Generale di Brigata Manlio Capizzi) – 38th and 37th Ravenna Infantry Regiments (Colonnello Mario Bianchi and Colonnello Giovanni Naldoni respectively) and 121st Artillery Regiment (Colonnello Giacomo Manfredi) + three companies of German anti-tank guns (22 guns in total).
Organic Corps Assets:
• 2º Raggruppamento Artiglieria di Corpo d’Armata (Tenente Colonnello Liberato Mascagna) – III and XXIII Gruppo cannoni da 105/28; CIII, CXXIII and CXXIV Gruppo obici da 149/13.
• 52nd and 54th Antiaircraft Batteries (20mm)
• Raggruppamento CC.NN. “23 Marzo” (Luogotenente Generale Luigi Martinesi)
o Gruppo Battaglioni CC.NN. “M” “Leonessa” (Console Graziano Sardu) – XIV and XV Battaglione CC.NN.; XXXVIII Battaglione CC.NN. Armi d’Accompagnamento [support arms].
o Gruppo Battaglioni CC.NN. “M” “Valle Scrivia” (Console Mario Bertoni) – V and XXXIV Battaglione CC.NN.; XLI Battaglione CC.NN. Armi d’Accompagnamento [support arms].
Additional Army-Level Reinforcements:
• III Gruppo of the 201o Regimmento Artiglieria Motorizzato
• XXXI Gruppo cannoni da 149/40 of the 9º Raggruppamento Artiglieria d’Armata
• 101st Engineer Company – Ferrymen
Italian XXXV Corps (Generale di Corpo d’Armata Francesco Zingales)
Chief of Staff: Colonnello Gaetano Vargas
Artillery Commander: Generale di Brigata Adriano Perrod
Engineer Commander: Generale di Brigata Mario Tirelli
Line Divisions:
• German 298th Infantry Division (Generalmajor Arnold Szelinski) – Grenadier Regiments 525, 526 and 527 and Artillery Regiment 298.
• 9th Pasubio Semi-Motorized Infantry Division (Generale di Divisione Guido Boselli; Divisional Infantry Commander: Generale di Brigata Davide Borghini) – 79th and 80th Roma Infantry Regiments (Colonnello Armando Mazzocchi and Tenente Colonnello G.B. Casassa respectively) and 8th Artillery Regiment (Colonnello Alfredo Reginella).
Organic Corps Assets:
• 30º Raggruppamento Artiglieria di Corpo d’Armata (Colonnello Lorenzo Matiotti) – LX, LXI and LXII Gruppo cannoni da 105/32; CXXIV Gruppo obici da 149/13.
• 95th and 97th Antiaircraft Batteries (20mm)
• Raggruppamento CC.NN. “3 Gennaio” (Luogotenente Generale Filippo Diamanti)
o Gruppo Battaglioni CC.NN. “M” “Montebello” (Console Italo Vianini) – VI and XXX Battaglione CC.NN.; XII Battaglione CC.NN. Armi d’Accompagnamento [support arms].
o Gruppo Battaglioni CC.NN. “M” “Tagliamento” (Console Domenico Mittica) – LXIII and LXXIX Battaglione CC.NN.; LXIII Battaglione Armi d’Accompagnamento [support arms] (Army).
Additional Army-Level Reinforcements:
• XXXIV Gruppo cannoni da 149/40 of the 9º Raggruppamento Artiglieria d’Armata
• L Gruppo cannoni da 149/28 of the 9º Raggruppamento Artiglieria d’Armata
German XXIX Army Corps (General der Infanterie Hans von Obstfelder)
Chief of the General Staff: Oberst Albrecht Ritter von Quirnheim
Line Divisions:
• 52nd Torino Semi-Motorized Infantry Division (Generale di Divisione Roberto Lerici; Divisional Infantry Commander: Generale di Brigata Cesare Rossi) – 81st and 82nd Torino Infantry Regiments (Colonnello Biagio Santini and Colonnello Evaristo Fioravanti respectively) and 52nd Artillery Regiment (Colonnello Giuseppe Ghiringhelli).
• 3rd Celere Division “Principe Amedeo Duca d’Aosta” (Generale di Divisione Ettore de Blasio; Vice Commander: Generale di Carlo Lombardi****) – 3rd and 6th Bersaglieri Regiments (Colonnello Ercole Felici and Colonnello Mario Carloni respectively), 120th Motorized Artillery Regiment (Tenente Colonnello Ugo de Simone), XLVII Battaglione Bersaglieri motociclisti, LXVII Battaglione Bersaglieri corazzato (two companies of L6/40 light tanks), and XIII Gruppo “Cavalleggeri di Alessandria” (two squadrons of Semovente L/40 da 47/32 tank destroyers) + Italian Croatian Legion (one rifle battalion, one mortar company with 81mm pieces and one anti-tank company with 47/32mm pieces).
• 2nd Sforzesca Infantry Division (Generale di Divisione Carlo Pellegrini; Divisional Infantry Commander: Generale di Brigata Michele Vaccaro) – 53rd and 54th Umbria Infantry Regiments (Colonnello Massimo Contini and Colonnello Mario Viale respectively) and 17th Artillery Regiment (Colonnello Achille Tirindelli).
Additional Italian Army-Level Reinforcements:
• LXXIII Gruppo obici da 210/22 of the 9º Raggruppamento Artiglieria d’Armata
156th Vicenza Infantry Division (Generale di Brigata Etelvoldo Pascolini*****) on lines of communications duties under the Befehlshaber Heeresgebiet B – 277th and 278th Vicenza Infantry Regiments (Colonnello Giulio Cesare Salvi and Colonnello Gaetano Romeres respectively).
Notes:
* Taken prisoner in January 1943.
** Taken prisoner in January 1943.
*** Grenadier Regiment 318 was a component of the 213th Security Division.
**** Generale di Brigata Antonio Luridiana took over as vice commander on 13 December 1942.
***** Taken prisoner in January 1943.
Best regards,
Shawn
P.S. I apologize for the curious mixture of English and Italian terms. As has already been noted in this thread, some Italian unit designations are difficult to translate literally into English.
10 December 1942 (OOB from north to south)
Army Group B (Generaloberst Maximilian Freiherr von und zu Weichs an der Glon)
Italian 8th Army or Armata Italiana in Russia (A.R.M.I.R.) (Generale d’Armata Italo Gariboldi)
• Chief of Staff: Generale di Divisione Bruno Malaguti
• Artillery Commander: Generale di Divisione Mario Balotta
• Engineer Commander: Generale di Divisione Arnaldo Forgiero
• Commander of Chemical Troops: Tenente Colonnello Cesiro Mischi
• Aviation Commander: Generale di Brigata Aerea Enrico Pezzi – 21o Gruppo Autonomo (Maggiore Ettore Foschini) composed of the 356a, 361a, 382a and 386a Squadriglie equipped Macchi C.200 “Saetta” fighters. In September 1942, twelve Macchi C.202 “Folgore” fighters plus two photographic-reconnaissance variants joined the group in Russia; 71o Gruppo Autonomo Osservazione Aerea composed of the 38a and 116a Squadriglie equipped with Caproni Ca.311 and Fiat Br.20 “Cicogna” aircraft.
• Intendant General: Generale di Brigata Carlo Biglino
• German General with the Italian 8th Army: General der Infanterie Kurt von Tippelskirch, 27 August 1942-1 February 1943.
• Chief of the General Staff of the German General with the Italian 8th Army: Oberst Walter Nagel, 18 September 1942-5 January 1943; Generalmajor Dr. phil. Hans Speidel, 5 January 1943-5 February 1943.
Army-Level Assets:
• Raggruppamento truppe a cavallo (Generale di Brigata Guglielmo Barbò di Casel Morano) – 3rd “Savoia Cavalleria” Regiment (Colonnello Alessandro Bettoni Cazzago) and 5th “Lancieri di Novara” Regiment (Colonnello Carlo Pagliano). The bulk of the two regiments had been removed to the rear for care of the horses; not employable in the winter season.
• 9º Raggruppamento Artiglieria d’Armata. As of 10 December 1942, all six of this organization’s artillery groups were farmed out to the four corps as reinforcements.
• 201o Regimmento Artiglieria Motorizzato (Colonnello Enrico Altaville) – I, II, III Gruppo da 75/32 (three batteries each). As of 10 December 1942, the III Gruppo was farmed out to the II Corps as reinforcement.
• 4º Raggruppamento Artiglieria contraerei (Colonnello Giuseppe di Martino) – IV and XIX Gruppo cannoni da 75/46 (two batteries each); XXXVI, XXXVII and XXXVIII Gruppo cannoni da 75/46 (three batteries each).
• 31st, 40th, 42nd and 65th Antiaircraft Batteries (20mm)
Italian Alpine Corps (Generale di Corpo d’Armata Gabriele Nasci)
Chief of Staff: Colonnello Giulio Martinat
Artillery Commander: Generale di Brigata Carlo Filippi
Engineer Commander: Generale di Brigata Cesare Tamassia
Line Divisions:
• 2nd Tridentina Alpine Division (Generale di Brigata Luigi Reverberi) – 6th and 5th Alpine Regiments (Colonnello Paolo Signorini and Colonnello Giuseppe Adam respectively) and 2nd Alpine Artillery Regiment (Colonnello Federico Moro).
• 3rd Julia Alpine Division (Generale di Brigata Umberto Ricagno*) – 9th and 8th Alpine Regiments (Colonnello Fausto Lavizzari and Colonnello Armando Cimolino respectively) and 3rd Alpine Artillery Regiment (Colonnello Pietro Gay).
• 4th Cuneense Alpine Division (Generale di Divisione Emilio Battisti**) – 1st and 2nd Alpine Regiments (Colonnello Luigi Manfredi and Colonnello Luigi Scrimin respectively) and 4th Alpine Artillery Regiment (Colonnello Enrico Orlandi).
Organic Corps Assets:
• 11º Raggruppamento Artiglieria di Corpo d’Armata – LI, LII and LIII Gruppo cannoni da 105/32; CXVII Gruppo obici da 149/13.
• 39th and 41st Antiaircraft Batteries (20mm)
Additional Army-Level Reinforcements:
• Alpine Ski Battalion “Monte Cervino” (Tenente Colonnello Mario D’Adda)
• Squadron grouping of dismounted cavalry from the Raggruppamento truppe a cavallo (see note above).
• Horse Artillery Regiment (Colonnello Domenico Montella) – without horses; removed to the rear.
• XXXII Gruppo cannoni da 149/40 of the 9º Raggruppamento Artiglieria di Corpo d’Armata
• XXIV Gruppo cannoni da 149/28 of the 9º Raggruppamento Artiglieria di Corpo d’Armata
• German Artillery Regiment 612
Italian II Corps (Generale di Corpo d’Armata Giovanni Zanghieri)
Chief of Staff: Colonnello Ugo Almici
Artillery Commander: Generale di Brigata Italo Giglio
Engineer Commander: Generale di Brigata Balilla Rima
Line Divisions:
• 5th Cosseria Infantry Division (Generale di Divisione Enrico Gazzale; Divisional Infantry Commander: Generale di Brigata Vincenzo Robertiello) – 89th and 90th Salerno Infantry Regiments (Colonnello Paolino Maggio and Tenente Colonnello Giacomo Lapenna respectively) and 108th Artillery Regiment (Colonnello Ernesto Drommi) + German Grenadier Regiment 318 (Oberst Erich Mielke)***.
• 3rd Ravenna Infantry Division (Generale di Brigata Francesco Dupont; Divisional Infantry Commander: Generale di Brigata Manlio Capizzi) – 38th and 37th Ravenna Infantry Regiments (Colonnello Mario Bianchi and Colonnello Giovanni Naldoni respectively) and 121st Artillery Regiment (Colonnello Giacomo Manfredi) + three companies of German anti-tank guns (22 guns in total).
Organic Corps Assets:
• 2º Raggruppamento Artiglieria di Corpo d’Armata (Tenente Colonnello Liberato Mascagna) – III and XXIII Gruppo cannoni da 105/28; CIII, CXXIII and CXXIV Gruppo obici da 149/13.
• 52nd and 54th Antiaircraft Batteries (20mm)
• Raggruppamento CC.NN. “23 Marzo” (Luogotenente Generale Luigi Martinesi)
o Gruppo Battaglioni CC.NN. “M” “Leonessa” (Console Graziano Sardu) – XIV and XV Battaglione CC.NN.; XXXVIII Battaglione CC.NN. Armi d’Accompagnamento [support arms].
o Gruppo Battaglioni CC.NN. “M” “Valle Scrivia” (Console Mario Bertoni) – V and XXXIV Battaglione CC.NN.; XLI Battaglione CC.NN. Armi d’Accompagnamento [support arms].
Additional Army-Level Reinforcements:
• III Gruppo of the 201o Regimmento Artiglieria Motorizzato
• XXXI Gruppo cannoni da 149/40 of the 9º Raggruppamento Artiglieria d’Armata
• 101st Engineer Company – Ferrymen
Italian XXXV Corps (Generale di Corpo d’Armata Francesco Zingales)
Chief of Staff: Colonnello Gaetano Vargas
Artillery Commander: Generale di Brigata Adriano Perrod
Engineer Commander: Generale di Brigata Mario Tirelli
Line Divisions:
• German 298th Infantry Division (Generalmajor Arnold Szelinski) – Grenadier Regiments 525, 526 and 527 and Artillery Regiment 298.
• 9th Pasubio Semi-Motorized Infantry Division (Generale di Divisione Guido Boselli; Divisional Infantry Commander: Generale di Brigata Davide Borghini) – 79th and 80th Roma Infantry Regiments (Colonnello Armando Mazzocchi and Tenente Colonnello G.B. Casassa respectively) and 8th Artillery Regiment (Colonnello Alfredo Reginella).
Organic Corps Assets:
• 30º Raggruppamento Artiglieria di Corpo d’Armata (Colonnello Lorenzo Matiotti) – LX, LXI and LXII Gruppo cannoni da 105/32; CXXIV Gruppo obici da 149/13.
• 95th and 97th Antiaircraft Batteries (20mm)
• Raggruppamento CC.NN. “3 Gennaio” (Luogotenente Generale Filippo Diamanti)
o Gruppo Battaglioni CC.NN. “M” “Montebello” (Console Italo Vianini) – VI and XXX Battaglione CC.NN.; XII Battaglione CC.NN. Armi d’Accompagnamento [support arms].
o Gruppo Battaglioni CC.NN. “M” “Tagliamento” (Console Domenico Mittica) – LXIII and LXXIX Battaglione CC.NN.; LXIII Battaglione Armi d’Accompagnamento [support arms] (Army).
Additional Army-Level Reinforcements:
• XXXIV Gruppo cannoni da 149/40 of the 9º Raggruppamento Artiglieria d’Armata
• L Gruppo cannoni da 149/28 of the 9º Raggruppamento Artiglieria d’Armata
German XXIX Army Corps (General der Infanterie Hans von Obstfelder)
Chief of the General Staff: Oberst Albrecht Ritter von Quirnheim
Line Divisions:
• 52nd Torino Semi-Motorized Infantry Division (Generale di Divisione Roberto Lerici; Divisional Infantry Commander: Generale di Brigata Cesare Rossi) – 81st and 82nd Torino Infantry Regiments (Colonnello Biagio Santini and Colonnello Evaristo Fioravanti respectively) and 52nd Artillery Regiment (Colonnello Giuseppe Ghiringhelli).
• 3rd Celere Division “Principe Amedeo Duca d’Aosta” (Generale di Divisione Ettore de Blasio; Vice Commander: Generale di Carlo Lombardi****) – 3rd and 6th Bersaglieri Regiments (Colonnello Ercole Felici and Colonnello Mario Carloni respectively), 120th Motorized Artillery Regiment (Tenente Colonnello Ugo de Simone), XLVII Battaglione Bersaglieri motociclisti, LXVII Battaglione Bersaglieri corazzato (two companies of L6/40 light tanks), and XIII Gruppo “Cavalleggeri di Alessandria” (two squadrons of Semovente L/40 da 47/32 tank destroyers) + Italian Croatian Legion (one rifle battalion, one mortar company with 81mm pieces and one anti-tank company with 47/32mm pieces).
• 2nd Sforzesca Infantry Division (Generale di Divisione Carlo Pellegrini; Divisional Infantry Commander: Generale di Brigata Michele Vaccaro) – 53rd and 54th Umbria Infantry Regiments (Colonnello Massimo Contini and Colonnello Mario Viale respectively) and 17th Artillery Regiment (Colonnello Achille Tirindelli).
Additional Italian Army-Level Reinforcements:
• LXXIII Gruppo obici da 210/22 of the 9º Raggruppamento Artiglieria d’Armata
156th Vicenza Infantry Division (Generale di Brigata Etelvoldo Pascolini*****) on lines of communications duties under the Befehlshaber Heeresgebiet B – 277th and 278th Vicenza Infantry Regiments (Colonnello Giulio Cesare Salvi and Colonnello Gaetano Romeres respectively).
Notes:
* Taken prisoner in January 1943.
** Taken prisoner in January 1943.
*** Grenadier Regiment 318 was a component of the 213th Security Division.
**** Generale di Brigata Antonio Luridiana took over as vice commander on 13 December 1942.
***** Taken prisoner in January 1943.
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David C. Clarke
- In memoriam
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- Location: U.S. of A.
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Lupo Solitario
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- Joined: 21 Mar 2002, 19:39
- Location: Italy, country of sun, wine and morons
Right, this was the project and the original german requirement was for a mountain forceDavid C. Clarke wrote:Nice answers guys! Lupo wrote:
So, it is likely that the first intention of the Germans was to send 8th Army towards the Caucasus Mountains rather than the Don Front?first, I believe, the project was for a mountain army
Thanks Lupo, always a pleasure hearing from you!
Best Regards,
David
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Luca Rovetta
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- Location: Bergamo, Italia
So it's true! During high school i said this thing during an exam, but the teacher didn' believe me! For many reasons i didn't remeber where i've read that. My teacher understood that i was trying to justify Mussolini in his descision to send our soldiers in Russia (no!!!!) .Lupo Solitario wrote:Right, this was the project and the original german requirement was for a mountain force
I was only saying that we sended mountains troops in Russia for a german request, but in my history book the decision of using alpine troops in a plan territory was only added to the Duce for his personal glory and for his friendship with Hitler.
Someone can tell me more?
Thanks & bye
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David C. Clarke
- In memoriam
- Posts: 11368
- Joined: 10 Mar 2002, 18:17
- Location: U.S. of A.
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Allen Milcic
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- Location: Canada
I can add that the Croat Legion (Lako Prijevozni Zdrug - Light Mobile Brigade) that was within the "Celere" Division was commanded by Lt.-Col. Egon Zitnik (a Croat). My information shows the legion to have had 1,100 soldiers, 70 NCO's and 45 officers (1,215 total). The OOB shows 3 Infantry Companies, 1 Machine-Gun Company, 1 (81mm) Mortar Company and 1 (65mm) Artillery Battery.David C. Clarke wrote:USAF1986--That OOB is Absolutely Gorgeous!!!!
Luca Rovetta, I too would like to hear more about Hitler's original plans and the sources that detail those plans.
Best Regards,
David
Best regards,
Allen/