Senones (Vosges), September 1914

[EM]

Good evening all of you,
I'd like to know what German troops entered the small town of Senones (in the Vosges, north-west of Saint-Die) on September 7, 1914. It seems that, according to the map included in the "Schlacht in Lothringen und in den Vogesen" volume, LIR 81 and LIR 80, with some cavalry were there on September 13, but I doubt they were already there on the 7th.
Thanks a lot in advance,
Eric

[BM Thiry]

Bonsoir Eric


en recherche rapide à la mobilisation, je trouve ces 80° et 81° RIR, avec les 42° et 41° RIB, dans la 21°RD,
XVIII RK au sein de 4° Armée!

http://www.zeltbahn.net/wehrpass/21rd.htm

étrange de les voir le 7 septembre dans les Vosges!
Dans un petit livre "the Gerrman Army in WWI" je confirme que ces régiments sont encore en 1915 à la 4° Armée.
(même si dans ce livre "résumé" a multe erreurs)

est-ce une erreur avec une confusion avec les 80° et 81°RIL :roll:
je ne sais pas, mais possible d' autant plus que je n'ai pas réssui à embrigader ces régiments de Landwerh...

Eric j' ai un problème de lecture d' abréviation en vieux gothique Allemand!
avec la description de l' odre de bataille de la Division de Marins Allemand
je n' arrive pas à lire les lettres de la 2° Brigades et de ces régiments
peux-tu me dire ce que tu en penses, s'il te plait


http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=72477

Ah, comme toi, je suis Lorrain
dernièrement j' ai trouvé à Nancy:
"la bataille des frontières Vosges 1914-1915"
de JP Claudel
Connais-tu?


Bien cordialement
BM
Thiry

[EM]

Bonjour "BM"...
Ce sont bien des unités de Landwehr dont je parle : les LIR 80 et LIR 81 (42. Ldw Br.), et non pas les RIR 80 et RIR 81.

A propos des marins, qu'est-ce qui n'est pas lisible ? C'est bien la colonne de droite, si je ne me trompe...

Enfin, pour conclure sur Claudel, cet ouvrage est indigne de la publicité qu'il a reçue et des ventes qui en ont découlé : il s'agit d'un copier-coller grossier, ce que j'ai déjà démontré sur d'autres forums en citant pour exemple les pages repompées dans les guides Michelin des champs de batailles et l'historique du 152e RI. Tout est à l'avenant, il n'y a rien dans ce "livre" si ce n'est du réchauffé.

Bien cordialement
Eric

[JPK]

You have only to ask.

Amiriés

JPK

[JPK]

Bonjour,
I can't find 42 LdwBr.[LIR 80 & 81]
I find XIV ResK,19 ErsD, 30 ResD, b.ErsD.
Amitiés
JPK

[EM]

Bonjour JP,
Well, let's go on in English, if ever an English-speaking contributor was interested in what happened at Senones in September 1914 (which I doubt...).
Thanks a lot for the maps (where do they come from?); so I deduce that troops of the 30th Division must have been at Senones at that time, am I right?
Best regards
Eric (et encore merci pour cette premiere piste !)

[JPK]

Bonjour,
It's come from
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=72451

- We continue in english, not only french people are interested in WW I .
Our moderator Peter H is very helpful

OOB 1914
30 ResD
-84 LdwBr, 5 b.ErsBr, 10 b.ResBr.
70RIR, 7; 8 Br.Ers.Btn, 11; 14 b ResRgt

If it help you: some scan :19 ErsD, 30 b.RD, b.ErsD

Regards
JPK

[BM Thiry]

Good morning all

1°) exact pour les 81° 80° LIR au lieu des 80° 81° RIR, j' ai été trop vite
it's a mistake

2°) thank you for the big picture

I see:

Marine Division

Mar Inf Brig
Mar Inf Reg 1
Mar InF Reg 2

Matr Art Brig
Matr Art Reg 1
Matr Art Reg 2

That's this "Matr" ?? "Art" as Artillery??
this is ma question

Thank you very for your collaboration

Regards
Bertrand

[JPK]

Matr.=Matrosen=Matelot/Marin
Art.=Artillerie

For Eric a new map

plain ligne/trait plein==>20/08/1914 morning
black dotted/pointillé==>22/08/1914 evening

best regards

JPK

[EM]

Good evening,
Thanks a lot for the maps and the latest information as well. Everything I can gather bit by bit is of interest to me.
Best regards
Eric

[Peter H]

Some great information and maps here!

A much neglected aspect of the war(at least in English written histories) are the battles along the Alsace-Lorraine frontier 1914-18.

JPK's posting of pages from the Histories of 251 Divisions of the German Army Which Participated in the War (1914–1918) solves many of the gaps on knowledge on the units involved.A highly recommended book.

Regards,
Peter

[EM]

Hi all of you,
You're right Peter: I wish we could find more about the combats that took place in the Vosges, especially in 1914. As everyone can see, I'm new to this forum and have already been delighted at the help provided since I posted my first requests!
I also wish I could help anyone about the area where I live and which I have a passion for, but unfortunately, the German I can read is very poor (Jäger, Garde-Jäger, Schützen, Graben, Landwehr, General, Oberst, well, that's almost all I can recognize in a text... )
Best regards
Eric

[Peter H]

Eric,
Welcome to the forum.

On the subject of the Vosges some pics I have on Hartmannsweilerkopf,from the German wartime publication Der Krieg in Wort und Bild.

The peak at night by the German artist,Martin Frost:


Another view,topography captioned:


On the summit:


Supplies forward:


Garde Jagers scale the summit:


The officer with glasses,and no hat,is a mystery though.

The HWK battles did have a prominence in both French and German accounts of the war--hopefully this forum does it part in spreading knowledge on actions there, 1914-18.

Best regards,
Peter

[EM]

Hi Peter,
Thanks a lot, the pictures are great (and Frost really is my favourite German artist!). The one taken on the summit is fantastic!

Have you ever had a look at this part of a site I collaborate with? http://www.abri-memoire.org/phototheque.php
Please, do not hesitate to advertise it...

Best regards
Eric

[JPK]

Bonjour Eric,
In one of my book "Unserkorps 1914-1915" Text & many photo of the (Dt) XIV AK i1914/1915 (For Baccarat about 10 photos)

If you like, I can send you the scan by Email ?

Best regards
JPK

The others pics are bigger and I think I can't post them here