52nd Italian Torino Div
52nd Italian Torino Div
Do we have an Italian Army expert here? I need to know whether the Torino Division was ever motorised on the Eastern Front- I read various references to its being a motorized division but in the Italian Army division lists I've seen it's classified as Infantry. Help, anyone?
Best regards,
Genstab
Best regards,
Genstab
- Lupo Solitario
- Member
- Posts: 1143
- Joined: 21 Mar 2002, 19:39
- Location: Italy, country of sun, wine and morons
Hi Bill
coming to your question...the point is that we're speaking about an only-italian concept, the autotrasportabile division. (just to tell, I've never been satisfied of any proposed traslation as semi-motorized or lorried...)
This kind of unit was created by italian army in 1938. The idea was to create a kind of unit which could be moved by motorization but had not an organic motorized component.
Substantially the division had artillery and services motorized but infantry by feet. The concept was to have an autotrasportabile corps on two division and one truck group. While one division fought, the other mounted on trucks and moved.
It never worked. The usual result was that one division worked as motorized and the other followed...as God wanted.
Told this, Torino was an autotrasportabile division, more motorized than a standard one but never a really full motorized unit (a good quality unit, anyway, notwithstnding all troubles)
coming to your question...the point is that we're speaking about an only-italian concept, the autotrasportabile division. (just to tell, I've never been satisfied of any proposed traslation as semi-motorized or lorried...)
This kind of unit was created by italian army in 1938. The idea was to create a kind of unit which could be moved by motorization but had not an organic motorized component.
Substantially the division had artillery and services motorized but infantry by feet. The concept was to have an autotrasportabile corps on two division and one truck group. While one division fought, the other mounted on trucks and moved.
It never worked. The usual result was that one division worked as motorized and the other followed...as God wanted.
Told this, Torino was an autotrasportabile division, more motorized than a standard one but never a really full motorized unit (a good quality unit, anyway, notwithstnding all troubles)
52nd Torino Division
Hi, Lupo-
Much appreciate the answer. I'm working on reformatting my O/Bs and putting them on diskettes for possible publication. Could I ask you this- are you familiar enough with the Divisions that fought in the Italian 8th Army in Russia to tell me if the Torino Division was any more "motorized" than the others? Or were there other infantry divisions in the same autotransportable category in Russia? Torino is the only one I've seen any mention of as motorised except of course the 3rd Celere Division.
Thanks again- I need to be really accurate with these O/Bs so I appreciate your help.
Best regards,
Bill/Genstab
Much appreciate the answer. I'm working on reformatting my O/Bs and putting them on diskettes for possible publication. Could I ask you this- are you familiar enough with the Divisions that fought in the Italian 8th Army in Russia to tell me if the Torino Division was any more "motorized" than the others? Or were there other infantry divisions in the same autotransportable category in Russia? Torino is the only one I've seen any mention of as motorised except of course the 3rd Celere Division.
Thanks again- I need to be really accurate with these O/Bs so I appreciate your help.
Best regards,
Bill/Genstab
- Lupo Solitario
- Member
- Posts: 1143
- Joined: 21 Mar 2002, 19:39
- Location: Italy, country of sun, wine and morons
all right...well, the other autotrasportabile division was the Pasubio which went in Russia with Torino in 1941 but when it had been decided to send other three infantry division in 1942 (Ravenna, Cosseria and Sforzesca), they received a motorized artillery regiment and motorized services...as a result all the five infantry divisions in Russia in late 1942 had more or less the same level of motorization...anyway remember that there was the possibility to completely temporary motorize a unit sometimes...
Torino Division
Thanks much, I appreciate the info. I guess to be accurate I should just refer to The Torino Division as Infantry in Russia. That's how it's categorized in the lists of Italian divisions I see on Comando Supremo etc.
Have a great spring over there- and eat more chicken. You're my other neighbor in King Shadow's domain and I may need help for Lady Polona!
Best, Bill/Genstab
Have a great spring over there- and eat more chicken. You're my other neighbor in King Shadow's domain and I may need help for Lady Polona!
Best, Bill/Genstab
- Luca Rovetta
- Member
- Posts: 31
- Joined: 31 Jan 2005, 12:45
- Location: Bergamo, Italia
Hi all,Lupo Solitario wrote:Hi Bill
coming to your question...the point is that we're speaking about an only-italian concept, the autotrasportabile division.
Lupo said the right thing. I add that the same thing is the difference between "Motorizzabile" (= autotrasportabile) and "Motorizzata" (=autotrasportata). This is a tipical italian play of words to make us army /at the eyes of other Countries) stronger.
I think that "Motorizzabile" or "Autotrasportabile" means that "if somebody gently give us some trucks, jeep... we can use them to move, we are ready and trained to do this!".
Bye,
Luca
52nd Torino Div
I thank you both for this knowledge. You have helped me to be accurate and I appreciate it.
Best regards,
Bill/Genstab
Best regards,
Bill/Genstab