MP18s in Freikorps service

[Peter H]

The preferred weapon of choice for the Freikorps,the Bergmann Maschinenpistole (MP) 18?

My understanding is that production continued until 1920.

Walther Rathenau was shot down by one in 1922.

An inventory of FK Rossbach in August 1919 details the following as well:

32 officers
960 other ranks
3 field cannons
2 light howitzers
26 heavy MGs(MG 08s)
28 light MGs(MG 08/15s)
3 medium Minenwerfer
4 light Minenwerfer
6 flamethrowers
951 Gew 98s &Kar 98s
92 MP18 SMGs
1 Armoured Car

Soldaten der 2.Garde Reservedivision, man beachte die Bewaffnung des Offiziers in der Bildmitte, eine Maschinenpistole MP18


http://www.freikorps.net/2garde.jpg

Any further info on numbers deployed,used in action would be appreciated.

/Peter

[bob lembke]

Peter;

I understand (but don't have a reference, offhand) that the WW I Germans were planning to have one MP 18 issued in each infantry "squad" (Gruppe?), which of course is what they did in WW II with the MP 42. The numbers you cited for the Freikorps formation also seems to reflect that concept.

Bob Lembke

[bob lembke]

Peter;

Two more MP 18 points. A friend has a great MP 18 pic; two ranks of men, about 20-30 men in the field of view, but obviously the ranks extend past the field of view of the camera. There are more men lined up behind. The men are being reviewed by the Kaiser, as I remember. The men have slung arms, but the barrels of the weapons are so short that not one extends over the shoulder line, all you see are slings. The men each have their two blouse pockets bulging. So they must have been armed with MP 18s, and they had two drum magazines in their pockets. We guessed that the Kaiser is reviewing a MP 18 trainiong course; I don't think any unit was equipped only with them. (I saw the pic quite a while ago; there is a slight chance that I may be wet about the Kaiser, but the rest of the photo, which frankly interested me more, I am sure about.) I have a scan squirreled away, but it is not my property and the owner would not want me to release it.

Secondly, my father's squad leader in the Schwarze Reichswehr had one, and broke up a small riot by walking up to a mob, ordered them to disperse, and when they roared defiance he opened up over their heads with the MP 18. They had never seen such a thing and they fled down the street. This was in a small town in rural Germany, probably about 1920. They then drove to the house of the police chief, where a crowd had gathered to see what the police chief was going to do about the riot. My father and his three comrades pushed into the house and found the police chief cowering in his nightshirt and sleeping cap, and they dragged him thru the house and out the door in front of the crowd. That evening my father acquired an enemy. Then they climbed on their two motorcycles and rode away, and as they did two trucks of riot police drove by, and they exchanged greetings, sort of 1920's "high-fives". The Schwarze Reichswehr and the riot police (which had been loaded with veterans, NCOs, etc.) were quite tight, and they did not really worry about the few local cops. The SR squad was small but well-equipped; they even had four 77's and 1000 rounds in a barn under the hay.

Hope you don't mind the anecdote; I find it a hoot.

Bob Lembke

[Peter H]

Bob,

Thanks for your interest and the great stories you post of your Dad.


The photo below might be similar to the Kaiser picture you have.This was on e-bay awhile back and I was onsent a copy.My bid for it failed unfortunately.The caption was The Kaiser reviews Sturm Pionere.One weapon muzzle can be seen in the ranks but I think its a carbine.I'm fairly certain the officer next to the Kaiser is also 'Willi' Rohr,so it may be the 5 Sturm Battalion.They acted as the Kaiser HQ guard in late 1918.Note also the stature of the men in the ranks.

Best Regards,
Peter

[bob lembke]

Peter;

The photo is clearly not the same event. The MP 18 training course picture was, I believe, in a wooded area.

Secondly, if you mean the guy in the Stahlhelm and mustache, next to the Kaiser, 99% that that is not Willi Rohr. He was clean-shaven, very hard, angular face, lean as a whippet, very taunt bearing, like a steel spring. The "official" history of SB Rohr, by Graf von Schwerin, has a great photo of him toward the front of the photo section. Someday I hope to complete my translation of it and publish it, perhaps in bi-lingual, facing page format.

Best Regards,

Bob Lembke

[Peter H]

Thanks Bob.

Notice the Litzen on the guys in the ranks--they appear to be Garde.

Best regards,
Peter

[bob lembke]

Peter;

Additional thoughts. If the photo is "Sturm Pioniere", it is either Sturm=Bataillon Nr. 5 (Rohr) or the flame regiment, Garde=Reserve=Pioniere=Regiment. They were the only Sturm=Pioniere units. The officer next to the Kaiser is neither Willi Rohr or Major Dr. Bernard Reddemann, the CO of G=R=P=R. He probably was a company CO, or one of the three battalion COs of G=R=P=R. As the G=R=P=R had 14 plus companies, and S=B Rohr 8 plus companies, it is quite possible or probable that the unit is G=R=P=R, just on a statistical basis. The units had picked men, of course; and the men of G=R=P=R had to handle the Flammenwerfer devices, and carry MGs forward, and light mortars on their back. My father, for example, was six foot tall; very tall for those days.

Best Regards,

Bob Lembke

[Peter H]

Bob,

Too bad we can't see any Totenkopf badges to verify this.

Here's a second photo of the parade that was offered on e-bay.Pack-horses.I assume they carried something.

The first photo seems to indicate that the rank and file consisted of two types of men--the big,burly Garde that the Kaiser was approaching ,and these support type of troops that he had already passed.


Best regards,
Peter

[bob lembke]

Peter;

I believe that the S=B Rohr men were athorized to wear Litzen, although they were not Garde.

Also, note the number of P 08s. Most men in G=R=P=R carried the P 08, while, in an interesting reversal, NCOs often carried carbines.

I have read a lot about both units, and don't recall ever reading anything about pack animals. However, the G=R=P=R, if anything, had more heavy stuff to carry about.

Interesting. Wonder who they are.

Regards, Bob Lembke

[3.Jäger Rgt.]

Bob,

No Litzen worn by regulation for the 5.Rohr Sturm Batl.. Rohr, himself, could wear them as a former member of the Garde Schützen Batl.. Many of the volunteers of the Batl. were from Garde units.

Where do you see P-08s? Those things that they are wearing on their waists look like M-09 pouches to me.

Best regards,
Chip

[trickcyclist]

Hi Chip:
I bought these photos on eBay because the dealer said they were "Sturmpioniere." Actually, they're men of the 1. Marine Infanterie Regiment, according to the writing on the back. Not my area of interest. I couldn't dispute the purchase because the dealer's description said "maybe." Oh well. Caveat Emptor.
By the way, are you Chip Minx?
Cheers.
TC

[bob lembke]

Chip;

You're right, they are pouches, not P 08 holsters. My eyes are not 100%. (Had my corneas removed a few years ago, plastic inplants put in, actually improved my sight, but not to a perfect state. Incidentally, they do it while you are awake and with, of course, your eyes wide open. I remember telling the surgeon an elaborate funny story about Transylvanian medicine during the procedure.)

Since the alleged context was "Sturm=Pioniere", many or most of whom carried P 08s, I ran my mouth rather than squint carefully.

What was the unusual honor that S=B Rohr had? (Besides the Kronprinz "W" monogram that they got to wear in 1918. I thought it was Litzen, off the top of my head. Was it being addressed as Grenadiere?

My father served several times with S=B Rohr, and could wear Litzen, but because his parent unit was G=R=P=R, and was on loan to S=B Rohr.


TC;

Yes, Chip is the illustrious Chip Minx.

Is there more interesting text on the rear? Cheer up, the marine regiment is interesting. Dealers with misleading descriptions are a pain. How many times do you see a gaggle of tired, moth-eaten, aged Landsturmmanschaften described as a storm troop?

Just read about MG units, I think in 1918; the men carried the MGs, but had some pack horses to carry the ammo.

Teamsters, of course, were usually marginal physical material with a rural background; smallish 40 year old farmers. It is no surprise that an elite unit had runty teamsters, as you pointed out.

Bob Lembke

[trickcyclist]

Bob:
The backs of the cards just say 1. Marine Infanterie Regiment. No other info. I guess the dealer couldn't read the script.
TC

[freiwillige]

Hello,

A pic of Reichswehr soldiers with an MP-18. From an original postal card I purchased some years ago.


Regards.
Ferran

[freiwillige]

Sorry, the pic...