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info on 27th (Penal) Panzer Regiment

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info on 27th (Penal) Panzer Regiment

Postby Bodul on 06 Jun 2005 19:34

Please i am in need of info about this Pz regiment.Its war "road" and specially if anyone knows about Sven Hassel(writer) and his actions within this unit in which he apparently was.

Thx all in advance.
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Postby Miha Grcar on 06 Jun 2005 19:58

There were no such things as penal panzer regiments. Sven Hassels books are works of fiction and no real history.

The real panzer regiment 27 was a part of the 19. Panzer Division.

best,
Miha / Nibelung
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Postby Bodul on 06 Jun 2005 20:12

Nibelung wrote:There were no such things as penal panzer regiments. Sven Hassels books are works of fiction and no real history.

The real panzer regiment 27 was a part of the 19. Panzer Division.

best,
Miha / Nibelung



Hi miha,Sven Hassel was brought to my attention few days ago when friend of mine told me about him.He was really enthusiastic about this writer but when he started to tell me about actions such as "infiltrations in russian factories in NKVD uniforms" which sven hassel discribed in his book i got a bit suspicious.Also when he told me that in his biography he stated that he was volonteer from nordic country and then later he was deployed in "Penal panzer unit" alarm really started to ring because this was not ading up at all.Why would volunteer which was usually deployed in SS divisions would be in some kind of Penal unit?? 8O 8O
You just confirmed my suspicion...thx
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Postby emeny on 07 Jun 2005 06:41

There are many theories about Sven Hassel.

I offer this link to a site that hosts pictures (they claim the pictures were from Sven Hassel and also captioned by Sven Hassel.

http://www.svenhassel.info/
I have trouble getting an URL, the site is called Porta?s Kitchen.

In particular there is a picture of a tiger tank 233 "in the Ardennes".
I have seen a much larger and better version of that picture.
If anyone can identify that vehicle would be nice.

There are some other pictures that might make for good Id work there also.
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Postby Christoph Awender on 07 Jun 2005 07:12

Tsss.. I don´t even want to waste time to think about such individuals like Sven Hassel or Sajer and if they are "real" or not. Fact is that there was never such a thing like a Panzer-penal regiment. This is completely nonsense and so far from reality as it can be.
To the photos on the site I don´t believe a single word that is written there. At least three I am recognizing immediately to be well known german Propaganda photos. The tanks are incorrectly identified etc.. etc..
Such things make me really angry and people that want to make others believe such authors depict the truth of war have no respect from me.

\Christoph
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Postby Kurz Patrone on 07 Jun 2005 07:16

Do you mean Sajer as in "the forgotten soldier" Guy Sajer, Christoph?
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Postby Christoph Awender on 07 Jun 2005 07:41

Kurz Patrone wrote:Do you mean Sajer as in "the forgotten soldier" Guy Sajer, Christoph?


Yes, but this discussion has already be done in other threads. Thats another topic and I won´t discuss such individuals.

\Christoph
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Postby emeny on 08 Jun 2005 22:36

LOL @ you Christian, don't be so angry.
Do you have kids?
I bet you told them Santau Claus is a big phoney at like age 3.:P

Having read ALL of the Sven Hassel or "Børge Villy Redsted Pedersen" books, and the complete defamation piece by his nemesis, i will be the first to say that they are obviously contrived works of fiction.
There are too many overlapping dates of major operations, and he also escaped from Stallingrad in one of his books.
I am also aware that there was no 27th Penal Panzer Regiment.

Having said that, it's important to note that Hassel claims his works are fiction, but based on fact, and also based on his wartime experience.

Anyway, whatever you say,
you didn't bother to ID the vehicles to help with a constructive conversation, and perhaps prove beyond shadow of a doubt that the man is a liar.

What are your opinions based on, hearsay?






[/i]
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Postby Christoph Awender on 08 Jun 2005 23:04

Anyway, whatever you say,
you didn't bother to ID the vehicles to help with a constructive conversation, and perhaps prove beyond shadow of a doubt that the man is a liar.

What are your opinions based on, hearsay?


Why hearsay? It is not hearsay that there are well known photos with wrong captions and tanks incorrectly identified. Sorry, that I didn´t identify the tanks for you but it is not my job to convince someone that the photo section is nonsense. I cannot have a constructive discussion about such things because they make me angry and unfortunately there are people that believe the info.

\Christoph
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Postby Christian Ankerstjerne on 08 Jun 2005 23:10

Christoph's name is Christoph, not Christian.

As examples of the false IDs:
Page 4, photo 2: Those aren't Pz.Kpfw.IIs, butcaptured French tanks. Odd that he hasforgotten thatthey used French tanks, especially considering that there is a correctly captioned on on page 6.
Page 6, photo 1: Wide open plains in the Ardennes strikes me as odd

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Postby Christoph Awender on 08 Jun 2005 23:19

And it would be easier if I would find this photo pages again. Where are they? It seems I am too blind to find them tonight :)
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Postby Christoph Awender on 08 Jun 2005 23:21

ah found them again
http://www.svenhassel.net/ilustra.htm

Interesting is the text from where he links to them
Did the characters really exist?
Sven Hassel has repeatedly insisted that all of his characters existed. He has even put some pictures of them on the web. (You can decide if these are genuine or not.) Most of his comrades died in the war but he has revealed that Tiny and The Legionnaire survived and joined/re-joined the Foreign Legion, Heide is supposed to have become a general in the East German army (!) and Gregor is said to have become a very rich businessman in partnership with an American sergeant. Well, I don't know, but it's a nice story.
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Postby emeny on 10 Jun 2005 00:53

Sorry Christoph and Christian about mixing up your names.
Thanks for at least showing some interest.

I was more interested in getting a certified unit id on the tiger in the Ardennes, 233.
I know that's a very common picture, i have seen a large clear version at other sites, but not in a format i can legally save and re-post here.
That way, it may be possible to get a list of the crew names at various times of the vehicles service, vehicle history, etc.

Also, if anyone had better quality versions of the images of the panther tanks, or could possibly unit id the "skoda" with the 701 plate on it, and the picture there of "Sven" sitting on the captured French tank.

Distinguishing a Hotchkiss H-35 or 39 from a panzer II is no real problem for me, I know the captions are flawed - i am not trying to say that they aren't.

Since this is one of the premier english forums for discussion of factual ww2 information...
The fact remains that of all the authors who have written on WW2, Sven Hassel has reached a wider audience.
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Postby David E M on 10 Jun 2005 02:04

I have all of the Sven Hassel books. I think they are brilliant NOVELS not all written by the same person. The ideas came from Sven, Some say his wife wrote them, who cares?. the is a site somewhere that totally de-bunks the books. Alegedly Sven was a petty criminal during the war he never served anywhere. Regardless I think they are very well written and great stories.
If you want to know facts about the German Army during WW2, you would be better off reading Harry Potter than this stuff. It has about the same revelance!.
Maybe we should make this a sticky it comes around every now and again.
Cheers DEM.
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Postby Christoph Awender on 10 Jun 2005 14:17

emeny wrote:Sorry Christoph and Christian about mixing up your names.
Thanks for at least showing some interest.

I was more interested in getting a certified unit id on the tiger in the Ardennes, 233.
I know that's a very common picture, i have seen a large clear version at other sites, but not in a format i can legally save and re-post here.
That way, it may be possible to get a list of the crew names at various times of the vehicles service, vehicle history, etc.

Also, if anyone had better quality versions of the images of the panther tanks, or could possibly unit id the "skoda" with the 701 plate on it, and the picture there of "Sven" sitting on the captured French tank.

Distinguishing a Hotchkiss H-35 or 39 from a panzer II is no real problem for me, I know the captions are flawed - i am not trying to say that they aren't.

Since this is one of the premier english forums for discussion of factual ww2 information...
The fact remains that of all the authors who have written on WW2, Sven Hassel has reached a wider audience.


You want to find crew names at various times for this vehicle?? The photos are not connected in any way, have wrong captions, wrong locations etc...etc.. How can you want to find out some real info from this collection of fantasy "facts"??

The 701 Skoda is most likely 6.Pz.Div.
This Tigers (not Panther as said in the caption) are from s.Pz.Abt.503 which was never in the Ardennen.
Image

Tiny is first shown (in 1943) as fully equipped Grenadier and then he is a Tiger commander (in a 503 Tiger) at the "Don arrow" (I guess he means Don bow). Then you have a Panther with Sven at Bjelgorod. Then you have "old man" wounded with infantry boots (BTW in a photo which appears in a Propaganda publication about fightings on the Krim).
There is just one photo which I cannot proof to be "Stolen" from somwhere and posted with wrong, made up information.

\Christoph
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