Murder of German women 1945: Confession by American soldier

[Panzermahn]

As promised to WalterS's provokatsiya and koagitatsiya, I had asked the permission of the researcher and was granted to post it in AHF.

Here are scans of Anthony Hecht (passed away in 2004) who was a 2nd lieutenant in the US 97th Infantry Division that participated in the invasion of Germany in 1945. In an interview given to a Mr. Hoy which was published in the BTL books, Anthony Hecht spoke of his unit committing a hedious war crime against German women and civilians

[Panzermahn]

Interview with Anthony Hecht as published in BTL with Mr Hoy, 2004

[WalterS]

Initially, Panzermahn sought to regale us with alleged crimes in his thread: Discipline of the 82nd and 101st American Airborne Divisions in which he told us he had sources saying that those two units engaged in the rape and murder of German civilians. When pressed, Panzermahn, as per usual, offers a dodge, and an incomplete one at that.

He suddenly shifts to the US 97th Division, and quotes an interview with Anthony Hecht, a young officer in that division who later became a celebrated poet. Panzermahn quotes Mr Hecht as stating to interviewer Hoy that he, Hecht, witnessed American troops machine gunning German women and children, an event which, if true, surely should have warranted the death penalty for any soldier involved. I am not aware of any US Army investigation or subsequent trials regarding this incident. The account quoted by Panzermahn does not give a specific date or place, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. It certainly could have.

What is more interesting, however, is the part of the interview that Panzermahn didn't quote, and this may explain his reluctance in the first place.

Anthony Hecht was a witness to the Holocaust. He served with the U.S. 97th infantry and participated in the liberation of Flossenburg, an annex of Buchenwald. It was in Flossenburg that Pastor Dietrich Bonhoeffer was hanged, only days before the camp was liberated. In a conversation with Philip Hoy, Hecht revealed the shocking nature of his experience: "When we arrived. . .prisoners were dying at the rate of five hundred a day from typhus. . . .The place, the suffering, the prisoners' accounts were beyond comprehension. For years after I would wake shrieking."

http://www.bu.edu/partisanreview/archiv ... erman.html

[Hecht] Flossenburg was an annex of Buchenwald. It was both an extermination camp and a slave-labour camp, where prisoners were made to manufacture Messerschmitts at a factory right within the perimeter of the camp. When we arrived, the SS personnel had, of course, fled. Prisoners were dying at the rate of 500 a day from typhus. Since I had the rudiments of French and German, I was appointed to interview such French prisoners as were well enough to speak, in the hope of securing evidence against those who ran the camp.

Later, when some of these were captured, I presented them with the charges levelled against them, translating their denials or defences back into French for the sake of their accusers, in an attempt to get to the bottom of what was done and who was responsible. The place, the suffering, the prisoners' accounts were beyond comprehension. For years after I would wake shrieking. I must add an important point: after the war I read widely in Holocaust literature, and I can no longer separate my anger and revulsion at what I really saw from what I later came to learn.

http://www.english.uiuc.edu/maps/poets/ ... erview.htm


Flossenburg, of course, is well documented as a Nazi concentration camp.

http://www.jewishgen.org/ForgottenCamps ... rgEng.html

http://auschwitz.dk/Canaris/id15.htm

http://www.thirdreichruins.com/flossenburg.htm

[Sean_Lamb]

OK, I am not an expert from this and I will just put up some assertions backed with nothing more than 10 minutes googling.

I welcome all corrections.

1) Flossenburg was not an annex or a subcamp or even close to Buchenwald. It was a camp with its own series of subcamps. Perhaps he meant in a metaphorical manner?

2) It was supposedly liberated by the US 90th Infantry, not the 97th. Other versions have the 2nd U.S. Calvary. Sounds a bit like Liberators.

But presumably if Anthony Hecht was involved in attempting to get war crimes evidence there must be something in the relevant archives of his interviews. They would have considerable interest; both for the subject matter and because of his latter writings.

Unless, of course, Anthony Hecht was doing a Ronald Reagan.

[Andreas]

won't post it here because I knew people like WalterS, Kunikov and even the moderator would asked me where is the sources and where is the written orders not to take prisoners.

The moderator would ask you to produce evidence. If you are not prepared to do so, do not bother posting your unsubstantiated allegations in the first place. You know the rules about this very well, stick to them.

If you can not or will not produce evidence relating to your claim, than I would expect you to edit your post and remove the allegation.

Thanks.

Andreas

[Andreas]

An off-topic post by Lavella was removed.

If nobody has anything to add to the original topic, i.e. further evidence or information on the alleged war-crime by members of 97th US ID, I would propose to close this topic. From Mr. Hecht's description it does not appear clear to me whether this is a warcrime, or just a very unfortunate incident that can happen in a combat zone.

Note that Mr. Hecht does not state that he was near the machine-gunners when they opened fire, or that he talked to them about their reason to open fire. In the absence of further documentation all that is left is speculation, such as that by WalterS on whether Flossenbürg had anything to do with the incident.

Discussions on the nature of Flossenbürg camp can be conducted in other threads, I am sure, and are off-topic to this one.

Panzermahn - thank you for following my suggestion.

All the best

Andreas

[Panzermahn]

Note that Mr. Hecht does not state that he was near the machine-gunners when they opened fire, or that he talked to them about their reason to open fire. In the absence of further documentation all that is left is speculation, such as that by WalterS on whether Flossenbürg had anything to do with the incident.

I suggest you read again. Why would somebody of all, an American soldier and a celebrated poet, simply create a story of his unit massacring women and children if isn't true? It is clearly mentioned by Anthony Hecht that he was with the group of American soldiers that massacred German women and children.

No elderly veteran, especially Allied veterans would simply concoct a story of their own unit committing war crimes so I think your speculation on Anthony Hecht's own statement is quite distasteful to the late veteran

[Peter H]

Read Andreas carefully.

The motive for the tragedy was not elaborated further by Hecht--outright murder?mistaken identity?a fear of a ruse?trigger happy recruits?

The guilt and justifications expressed by the perpetrators suggests they took no pride in what they did.

[Andreas]

Note that Mr. Hecht does not state that he was near the machine-gunners when they opened fire, or that he talked to them about their reason to open fire. In the absence of further documentation all that is left is speculation, such as that by WalterS on whether Flossenbürg had anything to do with the incident.

I suggest you read again. Why would somebody of all, an American soldier and a celebrated poet, simply create a story of his unit massacring women and children if isn't true? It is clearly mentioned by Anthony Hecht that he was with the group of American soldiers that massacred German women and children.

No elderly veteran, especially Allied veterans would simply concoct a story of their own unit committing war crimes so I think your speculation on Anthony Hecht's own statement is quite distasteful to the late veteran

I read it. I did not say he made up/created or concocted the story, just that he did obviously not state any first-hand information about the reason for the shooting. Also, as a 2nd Lt. he was a platoon commander, and the machine gunners were part of the company - he does not say that he talked to them about it, just that the incident was talked about. He does not say it was the machine gunners who pulled the trigger who came up with reasons, just that these reasons were brought up by unidentified members of the unit.

You need to brush up on your own command of the English language before accusing me of making distasteful statements and putting words into my mouth Panzermahn.

I ask again - do you have ANY further information on this incident?

[AdolfDettmer]

Panzermahn, why do you constantly create these threads...

How about you just start one thread you can post all your Irving-sourced war crimes, Anti-Western Goebbels laden propaganda, and the rest of this speculation so you wont flood the board?

[Joseph Salemi]

I am baffled by the unwillingness of certain participants in this forum (along with some moderators) to admit that the incident recounted by the late Anthony Hecht in his interview with Phillip Hoy was a genuine war crime.

A group of unarmed women and children, waving white flags, were cut to pieces by machine guns. If this isn't a war crime, then the Hague Tribunal ought to shut down.

The feelings of remorse by individual American soldiers in the unit are irrelevant. The lprecise location of Anthony Hecht in relation to the machine guns is irrelevant. The events at Flossenburg that Hecht witnessed are irrelevant. Hecht's personal reactions to the incident are irrelevant. Does anyone on this forum seriously believe that Hecht was lying about the facts, or making them up?

I find it incredible that a moderator has the gall to speculate that what Anthony Hecht witnessed (and had the decency and courage to tell the world) might have just been "a very unfortunate incident." Really? It's that kind of moral obtuseness that causes war crimes to happen.

Panzermahn's English may not be perfect, but he's stumbled onto a real war crime here. It's a shame that some of you are in denial about it.

[AdolfDettmer]

deleted

[AdolfDettmer]

Panzermahn,

Did you ignore all of what was written except the incident.

Hecht states the troops were young and inexperienced. He said the incident occurred in the combat zone. He also said the troops were traumatized by the horrors they had just witnessed at the Death Camp.

This is nothing compared to SS troops marching into a town. Rounding up several hundred women and children and packing them in the church and burning down the building.

[Joseph Salemi]

You seem to be suggesting that war crimes cannot happen in a combat zone, or while troops are engaged in combat. How do you defend that assumption?

You further suggest that being "young and inexperienced" lets you off the hook if you commit a war crime. Just where did you get that idea?

Finally, you suggest that being "traumatized by the horrors" one witnesses also palliates one's guilt if one murders women and children.

None of these suggestions and assumptions of yours are true. In fact, it's most likely that war crimes will be committed by young, inexperienced soldiers in a combat zone, who have been traumatized by what they have seen. Do they all get a free pass as a result? Wake up.

[Andreas]

I find it incredible that a moderator has the gall to speculate that what Anthony Hecht witnessed (and had the decency and courage to tell the world) might have just been "a very unfortunate incident." Really? It's that kind of moral obtuseness that causes war crimes to happen.

It is not 'gall', but quite simply a realisation that there unfortunately, and unexcusably apparently never was an inquiry establishing the circumstances. I am not denying that it happened, I am not denying it could have been a war crime, I am simply pointing out that here we have one man's statement, nothing more, nothing less. That he was a celebrity after the war should not influence the weight given to it. Mr. Hecht does not appear to have made further inquiries with the men who pulled the trigger, or why this was not investigated by a higher level of command as it should properly have been.

I have not found an article in the Hague Convention that unequivocally declares that this situation was a war crime. I have found the relevant passage in the 1949 Geneva Convention, but I think we can both agree that the machine gunners in 1945 probably and excusably would not have been aware of it. The 1934 Tokyo convention (the text of which I could not find) seems to never have entered into force. I am however neither a lawyer nor a lay expert in the convention matters, so if you want to point me to what in your view establishes this as a war crime, I would be most grateful.

It is my opinion that without further inquiry it is not possible to establish if it was a war crime. That is not moral obtuseness, but simply a desire to extend the same treatment to Mr. Hecht's erstwhile comrades that is being given to anyone accused of a crime - in dubio pro reo. A treatment that I am sure Panzermahn and many other members including me would want to see applied to German soldiers in the same situation too. Fact of the matter is that these women and children walked through the lines into a US position that not long before had been under fire by the Germans without an agreement for free passage. Anything could have triggered the machine-gunning of them. Peter H has suggested some possibilities.

With the information provided it is impossible to know what went on. If you have further information on the incident, please feel free to post it. If you don't have further information, I can not see any benefit in further discussion.

Thanks.

Andreas