Are French Light Tanks being given a bad rap?

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seppalar
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Are French Light Tanks being given a bad rap?

#1

Post by seppalar » 10 Aug 2005, 22:42

Hello all, and especially David Lehmann,

I have often wonderd if the various French light tanks are being unfairly maligned. They are derided for not being able to stop German tanks in defensive battles. It seems to me that since they were designed to support offensive operations this is rather unfair. It is rather like blaming the Royal Navy for the loss in France, or more like complaining that howitzers were not good for AT use. (or the the Tiger tank was no good in fast manoeuvre warfare)

Are there any reports of them being used for their intended roles - the support of infantry/cavalry in offensive manoeuvres? I have read that the Romanians liked their R35's because the armour was proof to Soviet AT rifles, something that could not be said of the othe tanks in Romanian sevice. Are there similar positive reports from the French Army?

Rick Seppala

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Michael Emrys
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#2

Post by Michael Emrys » 11 Aug 2005, 04:30

I should think the question is compromised by the lack of opportunity for French forces to engage in offensive operations prior to 1944, at which time they would have been armed with American tanks. You might look into their use in French North Africa late 1942-early 1943.


seppalar
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#3

Post by seppalar » 11 Aug 2005, 21:39

By 1942 they would probably be hopelessly obsolete, but so would virtually any 1940 tank. There must have been some French counteroffensives in which these vehicles took part in 1940. An analysis of such actions will provide some insight into their value at that time.

Respectfully yours,
Rick Seppala

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David Lehmann
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#4

Post by David Lehmann » 12 Aug 2005, 14:44

Hello Seppalar,

I will try to give you several points.

In 1940, France had 6-7 armored divisions (3 DLMs and 3-4 DCRs) but 70% of the tanks were nonetheless spread in battalions supporting the infantry. France had also 4 different doctrines for the tanks :
• 1 for the cavalry tanks (1935, 1937 and 1939) with classical missions of the cavalry : reconnaissance, establishing contact with the enemy, delaying the enemy, pursuit of the enemy, exploitation of a breakthrough etc.
• 3 for the infantry tanks :
--o "L'accompagnement" (infantry support), developed during WW1 and main role of the tanks in the doctrine of 1921 and 1936
--o "L'action d'ensemble" (concentration of tank battalions) was born in 1938-1939 but manuals were rarely distributed to the units
--o One doctrine for the armored divisions of the infantry (DCR) developed in 1938-1940. But the DCR remained generally in support of infantry units.

The French tanks units were not independent in 1940. They were dispersed in the cavalry and in the infantry.

In the cavalry the DLC = Division Légere de Cavalerie = Light Cavalry Division included some tanks and armored cars but the main armored unit was the DLM = Division Légere Mécanique = Light Mechanized Division. The term "light" referred to its speed and mobility not its strength since it was more powerful than the armored division of the infantry.

In the infantry the armored division was the DCR = Division Cuirassée de Réserve = Reserve Armored Division (cuirassée means armored). The acronym DCR was chosen in order to differentiate it from the already existing DC (= Division de Cavalerie = Cavalry Division). But it was indeed originally meant as "Division Cuirassée de Réserve", the word "reserve" being a political choice. These new units would not be ready until 1940 and were initially assigned to the HQ reserve, thus their name. But once in the field they were simply known as "Divisions Cuirassées", which was technically abbreviated as DCu, yet DCR was often retained (leading to the use of DCr). The BCC (bataillon de char de combat) were the tank battalions included in the DCR but on 10th May there were still about 35 BCC available for the armies beside several companies (CACC = Compagnie Autonome de Chars de Combat = independent tank company). They were dispersed in all the armies and all over the territory to support the infantry. During peacetime the BCC were depending from RCC = Régiment de Chars de Combat = tank regiments.

In 1940 the main tanks were :

Infantry tanks :
• Renault FT-17BS (light)
• FT-17c (light)
• FT-17m (light)
• FCM36 (light)
• Renault R35/39/40 (light)
• Hotchkiss H39 (light)
• Renault D1 (medium)
• Renault D2 (medium)
• Renault B1 (heavy)
• Renault B1bis (heavy)
• FCM-2C (very heavy)

Cavalry tanks :
• Hotchkiss H35/39 (light)
• Somua S35 (medium)

After World War 1, the Schneider CA-1 and Saint-Chamond tanks were retired and only Renault FT17 tanks were available. The Renault FT17 light tanks were replaced in the infantry by the Renault D1, Renault R35 (later R39 and R40), Hotchkiss H39 and FCM36. In 1935, The Renault R35 and the Hotchkiss H35 tanks were produced but already in 1937 they appeared insufficient. The Renault R35 was adopted by the infantry and the Hotchkiss H35 by the cavalry only. It was rejected by the infantry which accepted only the later Hotchkiss H39, better armored (40mm instead of 35mm for the hull) and with a more powerful engine (120 hp on 2800 rpm for 36.5 km/h onroad and 16km/h in medium difficult offroad). The 37mm SA38 L/33 gun was nevertheless rare and only introduced in March/April 1940. In 1940, most of the tanks had only the 37mm SA18 L/21 gun.

Since you are interested in the Renault R35 light tanks, most of them were in tank battalions, not integrated in a DCR, except in the case of the late created 4e DCR.

RENAULT R35
In 1933 the French High Command called for the design of a 6-ton tank as a replacement for the aging Renault FT-17. The vehicle was designed to have a crew of two and to be armed with one or two 7.5mm machine-guns or a 37mm gun. Manufactures that took part in design process were Renault, Forges et Chantiers de la Méditerranée (FCM), Compagnie Générale de Construction des Locomotives and Delaunay Belleville.The first prototype was manufactured by Renault at the end of 1934 and was based upon the AMR 1935 type ZT. The vehicle was called the Renault ZM (prior to acceptance) and immediately sent into trials in the winter of 1935. By spring, an order for 300 was placed. The tank was now called "char léger modèle 1935-R" (R35). The Renault R35 was the most common tank in the French army with about 1,500 tanks produced until the armistice. On 10th May 1940 there were about 900 R35 tanks in metropolitan France and 125 tanks in the French colonies. The tank was equipped with the APX-R turret (cast) and the hull consisted of three cast sections that were bolted together. The side plates carried bogies and front driving sprocket. The final drive and differentials were housed under nose plates. It was steered through a Cletrac geared differential and brakes. The driver was located to left side and had 2 splits and an episcope. The turret had 3 episcopes and a domed cupola with binoculars. There was a seat for the commander and the hatch in the rear of the turret that opened down could be used as a seat. The machine guns spent cases went down a chute through a hole in the floor. Initially the R35 had no radio, but later models had one installed. The engine was to the right in the rear with the self-sealing fuel tank on the left. Some R35 tanks were fitted with AMX crossing tails. The Renault R35 tank has also been exported in Romania (200 + 100 ordered, 41 delivered in September 1939 + 34 ex-Polish R35s. About 30 R35s were rearmed with Soviet 45mm tank gun), Turkey (100), Poland (50) and Yugoslavia (50).
Weight : 10.6t
Length : 4.02m
Width : 1.87m
Height : 2.13m
Crew : 2 men
Maximum armor : 43mm (APX-R turret is cast and hull is cast armor + RHA bolted elements)
Maximum speed : 20-23 km/h (Renault engine, 4 cylinders, gasoline, 85 hp, 5880 cm3, 2200 rpm, water cooled)
Diameter of turning circle at 6 km/h : 8.50m (Jentz)
Transmission : 4 forward, 1 reverse
Autonomy : 140 km
Ground pressure : 0.86 kg/cm² (compared to 0.73 for PzIIc, 0.92 for a Pz III e/f and 0.83 for PzIVd)
Armament : a 37mm SA18 L/21 gun and a 7.5mm MAC1931 CMG (42 AP, 58 HE and 2400 cartridges - elevation of -16 to +20° and traverse of 5° right and 5° left but could be blocked to aim only with the turret rotation). Some were rearmed with a 37mm SA38 L/33 and called Renault R39, only a few vehicles for some platoon and company leaders). During travel the MG was sometimes dismounted and put on the AA mount on the rear of the turret. The main gun is then facing the rear of the vehicle.

Detailed armor thickness (mm) :
Turret Front : 40mm/5° and 28° + gun mantlet
Turret Sides : 40mm/28°
Turret Rear : 40mm/30° (rear hatch is 40mm thick)
Turret Top : 25mm/90°
Copula : 40mm/round
Hull Front, Upper : 43mm/37° (driver’s hatch is 40mm/23°)
Hull Front, Lower : 40mm/round
Hull Sides, Upper : 40mm/10°
Hull Sides, Lower : 40mm/0°
Hull Rear : 32mm/24°
Hull Top : 25mm/90°
Hull Bottom : 10mm/90°

The surface of the front (turret and hull) really exposed to the enemy fire : 2.00 m2 with only 0.65 m2 with a slope inferior to 30°

1st gear – speed : 3.5 km/h
2nd gear – speed : 5.5 km/h
3rd gear – speed : 10 km/h
4th gear – speed : 20 km/h (23 km/h according to Russian data measured on a captured Polish R35)
Top Speed in medium difficult offroad terrain : 8.7 km/h
Maximum slope to climb 23° on soft ground.

Renault R35/39/40 and Hotchkiss H35/39 tanks vision means

Hull :
1x E2B episcope (early models) (28° vertical field of view) OR 1x PPL RX 180 P episcope (30° vertical field of view)
2x lateral slits

APX-R or APX-R1 turret (1350 kg with 37mm SA18 gun and 1540 kg with the 37mm SA38 gun) :
1x L.713 / L.739 sight (37mm SA18 gun) OR 1x L.767 sight (37mm SA38 gun)
3x diascopes (28° vertical field of view) (early) OR 3x PPL RX 160 episcopes (30° vertical field of view)
1x slit in the rear turret hatch

Cupola :
1x slit (150mm x 7mm slit protected by a 15mm thick armored shutter) (early) OR 1x PPL RX 180 P episcope (APX-R1) (30° vertical field of view)

RENAULT R40
The Renault R40 is the final variation of the R35. It was developed by the Atelier de Construction d’Issy-les-Moulineaux (AMX) which introduced a brand new and better suspension that consisted of 12 pairs of small road-wheels on each side mounted in pairs, vertical coil springs, and protective skirting plates. This vehicle mounted the long barreled 37mm SA38 L/33 gun in the APX-R1 turret and had an AMX crossing tail. A little bit less than 120 tanks had been built from 10th May on only and put into service with the serial number 51541 to 51658. They equipped the 40e BCC (30 R40 and 15 R35), the 48e BCC (29 R40 and 16 R35), the reconstituted 28e BCC (24 R40 and 21 R35) in beginning June and two Polish companies in France (companies "Pagézy" and "Chabowski" with 15 R40 each).
Weight : 12t
Length : 4.02m
Width : 1.87m
Height : 2.13m
Crew : 2 men
Maximum armor : 43mm (APX-R turret is cast and hull is cast armor + RHA bolted elements)
Maximum speed : 20-23 km/h (Renault engine, 4 cylinders, gasoline, 85 hp, 5880 cm3, water cooled)
Transmission : 4 forward, 1 reverse
Autonomy : 140 km
Armament : a 37mm SA38 L/33 gun and a 7.5mm MAC1931 CMG (42 AP, 58 HE and 3000 cartridges - elevation of -16 to +20° and traverse of 5° right and 5° left but could be blocked to aim only with the turret rotation).

General Perré (commander of the 2e DCR in June 1940) judges the value of the French equipment :
"Our equipment is generally excellent. The 40mm armor for the light tanks and 60mm armor for the B1bis tanks constitute a very efficient protection. From 3rd June to 25th June only 21 tanks were lost due to enemy fire. One of my B1bis tanks had more than 20 3.7cm hits and still worked perfectly. Even several Hotchkiss H39 remained undamaged after having been fired at by 3.7cm AT gun at less than 200 meters !
The Hotchkiss H39 armed with the 37mm SA38 gun could face efficiently all the German tanks except the heavier version of the Panzer IV. The B1bis crews engaged in tank vs tank combat preferred to use the 47mm turret gun with 360° traverse instead of the 75mm hull gun, which was located very low. The 47mm SA35 gun was at least as powerful as the 7.5cm gun of the Panzer IV in terms of penetration. The MAC31 'Reibel' MG gave entire satisfaction.
I never suffered from the speed discrepancy with the Panzerdivisionen. I had the feeling of lacking mobility only when I had no reconnaissance group. In that case I was forced to use my tanks for that task, resulting in the core of the division being slowed down at half of its speed ! Our range/autonomy was generally insufficient.
Concerning the robust and sturdy characteristics of our tanks, the B1bis tanks went beyond our hopes. Several of them had crossed 1,600 km without more maintenance than a quick oiling on the evening. The Hotchkiss H39 tanks proved to be more fragile. The Renault R35 tanks received in reinforcement were exceptionally robust. Therefore, except the radio equipment which was too diverse and which sometimes lacked range, all our equipments gave complete satisfaction. I have the duty to say that these equipments had a soul …
The crews, mechanics, soldiers etc., from the active or reserve army, made there duty until the end ! I never had deserters or men leaving their position without orders. My men have got a dozen 'Légion d'honneur" medals, about 15 military medals and 2,000 ratified citations.
Despite the retreat, despite the defeat, having seen everything collapsing around us, the men were grouped around their officers and their tanks until the end. They had, I think, the same feeling than the first tank crews … the feeling to be part of an elite, the feeling to be among the men discovering new things and facing new dangers. They gave me the powerful but bitter joy to feel that they were more and more faithful when facing increasing adversity, tragic fates and awful sufferings. They were worthy of the tank crews of WW1, who fought in Malmaison, Méry, Belloy and Villers-Cotterêts."

In fact the Renault R35 was :
- well armoured
- robust and reliable : I have read that it moved generally 300-500 km without basic maintenance and oiling

But :
- it was slow in rough off-road ground and not very mobile (the Hotchkiss and even the heavier B1bis tanks were better in that) … the Renault R40 was largely improved
- it was armed with the poor 37mm SA18 gun. It was intended to support infantry attacks and neutralize guns and MGs, not to fight against tanks. Therefore the French light tanks carried always more HE shells then AP shells. This gun could engage armoured cars and Panzer I / II at 300m but to engage a Panzer III or IV the tank had to go to point blank range. In any cases, even with the latest 1937 AP shells the combat range was within 100m whereas the enemy could engage them from longer range. The R39 and R40 were better armed with the 37mm SA18 gun but were rare compared to the R35.
- no radio


These French tanks were generally more adapted to heavy and brutal charges against slow or immobile targets but were not really conceived for a war in which speed and mobility rule. And this speed and mobility was created by the revolutionary Panzerdivisionen.
The German tanks were generally able to move at about 30 km/h offroad. For a Renault R35, the top speed in medium difficult offroad terrain was only 8.7 km/h. The Hotchkiss H39 was better with 16 km/h in medium difficult offroad terrain and even the heavy Renault B1bis was better with 21 km/h (easy offroad) to 10-15 km/h (hard offroad). The mean speed of the Somua S35 was measured at 35 km/h onroad, 32.3 km/h in easy/medium offroad terrain (fields etc.) and 11.19 km/h in hard offroad terrain (rough, ditches etc.), which makes of it a tank able to compete with the German ones.
But just comparing tanks should not prevent to consider the larger context. The French tanks were often engaged only in companies and faced 4 to 10 times more numerous German tanks. These German tanks were supported by the Luftwaffe, AT guns and 8.8cm AA/AT guns.

For a whole R35 tank battalion you have :
3 companies = 39 tanks
+ 1 battalion command tank = 40 tanks
+ 5 reserve tanks in the "compagnie d'échelon" = 45 tanks

The company is organized like that :
company commander : 1x R35
1st platoon (section) : 3x R35
2nd platoon (section) : 3x R35
3rd platoon (section) : 3x R35
4th platoon (section) : 3x R35 = 13 tanks

Concerning the battalions equipped with Renault R35 tanks :
• 1e BCC : 40+5 Renault R35/39
• 2e BCC : 40+5 Renault R35/39 (4e DCR)
• 3e BCC : 40+5 Renault R35/39
• 5e BCC : 40+5 Renault R35/39
• 6e BCC : 40+5 Renault R35/39
• 9e BCC : 40+5 Renault R35/39
• 10e BCC : 40+5 Renault R35/39
• 12e BCC : 40+5 Renault R35/39
• 16e BCC : 40+5 Renault R35/39
• 17e BCC : 40+5 Renault R35/39
• 20e BCC : 40+5 Renault R35/39
• 21e BCC : 40+5 Renault R35/39
• 22e BCC : 40+5 Renault R35/39
• 23e BCC : 40+5 Renault R35/39
• 24e BCC : 40+5 Renault R35/39 (4e DCR)
• 32e BCC : 40+5 Renault R35/39
• 34e BCC : 40+5 Renault R35/39
• 35e BCC : 40+5 Renault R35/39
• 39e BCC : 40+5 Renault R35/39
• 43e BCC : 40+5 Renault R35/39
• 62e BCC : 30 Renault R35 and 15 Renault FT17 (Morocco)
• 63e BCC : 40+5 Renault R35 (Levant)
• 68e BCC : 40+10 Renault R35 (Levant)

TOTAL = 1025 Renault R35/39 tanks (including 125 tanks in the colonies) on 10th May 1940. Therefore 900 Renault R35/39 tanks in France itself.

Later reinforcements :
ON 20th MAY 1940 :
• 44e BCC : 40+5 Renault R35/39 (4e DCR)
• 40e BCC : 15 Renault R35/39 and 30 Renault R40
• 48e BCC : 16 Renault R35/39 and 29 Renault R40

IN JUNE 1940 :
• 25e BCC : recreated with 21 Renault R35/39 and 24 Renault R40
• 2e BCC : reinforced with 9 Renault R35/39
• Polish battalion : 17 Renault R35/39 and 28 Renault R40.
The 10th Polish armored brigade consisted only of the 1st tank battalion and one motorized infantry battalion. Companies "Pagézy" and "Chabowski" were rearmed with Renault R-40 tanks.

If you want AAR and battles involving French light tanks I cannot offer the same detailed and numerous account than for the Renault B1bis for example.

Concerning an other French light tank, the FCM36 I have posted an AAR here :
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... c&start=75
(rather at the bottom of the page)

It is about the 7e BCC and its counter-attack on Bulson (south of Sedan) on 14th May. There are also notes about the later use of the 7e BCC and of the 4e BCC during June on the Aisne River in support of the 36e DI. In Bulson the few FCM36 faced far more numerous German tanks and 8.8cm self-propelled AT guns.

About the Renault R35 tanks supporting French attacks or counter-attacks there are several examples that could be studied. Here are some of them :

1) The 35e BCC used during the battle of the Gembloux gap (Belgium) on 14th – 15th May 1940.
In Gembloux, the 1e DM and the 15e DIM are supported by the 13e BCC (45 Hotchkiss H35) and the 35e BCC (45 Renault R35).
Hoepner's XVI. Panzerkorps (3.PzD and 4.PzD) will led the attack against Gembloux. In addition, Hoepner disposed of the 20. ID (mot) and 35. ID during the battle of Gembloux : 4 German divisions against 2 French ones.
To Hoepner's right, the IV. Korps (general Schwedler) had the 31. ID, the 7.ID and the 18.ID, from north to south. It is important to remember that these divisions with their thousands of horses moved primarily by muscles power unlike the Panzerkorps. The Germans counted above all on their Luftwaffe to provide fire superiority over the French troops.
On 15th May, the 13e BCC (45 Hotchkiss H35 tanks) and the 35e BCC (45 Renault R35 tanks) are used to launch counter-attacks on the Gembloux-Ernage railroad, forcing the Germans to retreat. The Germans will never break the French lines at Gembloux but largely because of the excellent French artillery and the inability of the Luftwaffe to silent this artillery.

2) 40 Renault R35 of the 10e BCC were engaged with the newly created 7e DLM around Juniville (south of Rethel and Aisne River) against the 1.PzD (+ elements of 17.ID and 21.ID). Make a research on the forum, I have written an AAR about the battle around Juniville. There were 65 French tanks including only 20 with the 37mm SA38 gun against the advancing 1.PzD.
The 37mm SA18 of the R35 was not sufficient against the Panzers, they had to close too much (25-50m) at a range were the good armor was not sufficient anymore.
On 10th June evening, from the 27 Renault R35 tanks engaged by the 2/10e BCC and 3/10e BCC (two companies of 13 tanks and the battalion commander's tank) :
• 10 have been destroyed
• 10 are damaged but recovered and under repair
• 7 are operational
The 1/10e BCC has 13 more tanks and there are also the 5 replacement tanks (manned then by the surviving crews) of the battalion for a total of 20-25 operational tanks.

3) Renault R35 tanks from the 3e BCC and 23e BCC were also engaged for example on 9th and 10th June with the 14e DI and the 2e DI on the Aisne River.
FRONT OF THE 14e DI (east of Rethel) : from Thugny-Turny to Attigny
The German assault (73. and 86.ID) begins at 4h20 after a 35 minutes long artillery preparation. The 170.IR (73.ID) manages to cross the Aisne river at Thugny-Trugny and begins to infiltrate in the French lines. The 31e BCP is very close to be encircled in the town. De Lattre sends colonel Paraire to counter-attack with elements from the 25e GRDI, the 2e BCP and 9 Renault R35 tanks coming from the 3e BCC. They pull the German regiment back inflicting them heavy losses. On all the front hold by the 14e DI the attack of the XXIII.AK is a failure.
FRONT OF THE 2e DI : from Château-Porcien to Thugny-Turny (including Rethel)
The 2e DI is attacked by the 17.ID and the 21.ID, leading to heavy street fights in Château-Porcien and the southern part of Rethel. No German bridgehead can be established; at each attempt the French troops launch a vigorous counter-attack that defeat the Germans. About 500 German POWs are captured by the 2e DI.
During the afternoon two breeches will be opened and enlarged in the French lines. West of Rethel 6 assault groups from the 3.IR (21.ID) crosses the river on a lock in Nanteuil despite heavy losses. This breakthrough allows the Schützen of the 3.IR to take some hills south of Nanteuil and to cut the Avançon-Rethel road. Immediately the engineers of the 21.ID build a bridge over the Aisne to allow the tanks to cross the river.
A second breech is made east of Château-Porcien which is now threatened to be encircled by the two breakthroughs. The front is broken in this area despite the resistance of the II/31e RI. The garrison in Château-Porcien will fight until being out of ammunition and surrendered only after violent close combats, delaying the building of an engineer bridge for about 6 hours.
A counter-attack is rapidly organized with the 1st company of the 23e BCC (Renault R35 tanks), two infantry platoons and two dismounted cavalry platoons but it fails due to heavy bombardment from the German artillery and aviation as well as a very efficient anti-tank artillery destroying 9 from the 13 R35 tanks. At 7h00, the German have achieved a bridgehead south of the Aisne river, deep of about 5 km from Château-Porcien to Avançon. The engineers build bridges for Guderian in Château-Porcien and Taizy.

More about the 3e BCC here in French :
http://www.chars-francais.net/archives/ ... /3_bcc.htm


4)
The 12e BCC south of Amiens on the Somme River is spread : 2/12e BCC with the 16e DI and 3/12e BCC with the 13e DI.
On 5th June the 2/12e BCC is on the Essertaux plateau with the mission of stopping German armoured elements. One R35 is destroyed by a Panzer IV during an ambush on the move to the deployment area. The first platoon (lieutenant Provoost) faces a German tank attack. The 3 R35 tanks are hit by numerous 3.7cm projectiles which do not penetrate the armor of the tanks. 2 R35 tanks are immobilized by the fire of Panzer III and IV. The crews continue to fire until all the shells have been used, then they evacuate the tank and join the French lines. The 3rd tank (caporal Devies) is scattered with 3.7cm impacts and retreats in the French lines. On the evening the 2 abandoned R35 tanks are recovered and towed in the French lines too.
For the 3/12e BCC the things are harder in the Essertaux - Ailly-sur-Noye area and several R35 tanks are destroyed or damaged (5 tanks) by 75mm shells from Panzers IV.
During this day the 12e BCC has blocked the German advance everywhere for the loss of only 5 WIA/KIAs, 3 destroyed tanks and 3 damaged and later recovered tanks transferred to the repair company.
To illustrate the facts in a larger context the German attacks in the area are largely defeated by the French artillery batteries firing in direct AT fire. On 5th June, the German XIV.Panzerkorps (9.PzD, 10.PzD, 13.ID (mot), 9.ID and "Grossdeutschland" regiment) assaults the French positions south of Amiens on the Somme River. The 14-20 km front (including the plateau of Dury) is hold by the 16e DI supported by 2 companies (26 Renault R35 tanks) of the 12e BCC. More than 400 German tanks and about 64,000 men are launched against about 18,000 French troops and 26 tanks. The French troops are organized in strongpoints in the towns and woods on a depth of about 10 km sometimes. These hedgehogs include infantry, HMGs, 25mm and 47mm AT guns, 75mm field guns used in AT role, AT mines etc. for a 360° defense. The advancing German tanks are rapidly cut from their supporting infantry and confronted on the rears to French 75mm, 105mm and 155mm artillery batteries engaging them in direct fire. On 8th and 9th June the 16e DI rears are reinforced by the 24e DI. After 5 days the German operation is stopped in that area, it failed and the Germans sustained heavy losses. The XIV.Panzerkorps is then moved and engaged behind the XVI.Panzerkorps in Péronne. The German troops lost 196 destroyed or damaged tanks (136 against the 16e DI and 60 against the 24e DI), including many definitively destroyed ones especially against French artillery batteries firing directly on the enemy tanks. The 2 French divisions have lost 60-70% of their strength but they stopped a Panzerkorps. Unlike in Gembloux the French troops had no strong artillery support since the artillery was mainly engaged in direct fire missions. After this battle the number of operational tanks of the XIV.Panzerkorps dropped to 45%.

5) The 44e BCC which is engaged against the bridgehead of Abbeville – but defeated mainly due to 8.8cm and 10.5cm guns.
The Abbeville battle, in fact three separate battles, was one of the most violent from the Western Campaign in 1940 and it lasted 10 days. On 20th May 1940, the 2.PzD and the especially the Lutfwaffe completely destroyed the city of Abbeville which had been declared “open city” and which included no military target except perhaps a few retreating troops on the move. The city had been destroyed like Arras in France or Rotterdam in the Netherlands and there were thousand of civilians killed.
On 21st May 1940, the Somme River is crossed in Abbeville and a German bridgehead is installed.
The German fortified area (trenches, barbed wire networks, numerous minefields etc.) of about 30 km radius was leant against the Somme River and the city of Abbeville. A hill, Mont de Caubert, is controlling the access to the city with large open ground in front of it. Around the city there are many swamps, the area is thus not fitted for a tank attack.
The German troops consisted in 57.ID reinforced by the Flak group 64 and eventually support elements (artillery) from the 2.(mot)ID stationed on the opposite bank of the river.

- First attack : 27th May 1940 - 1st AD
1st British Armoured Division (General Evans) failed in less than 2 hours and the British troops lost 120 tanks from the 165 tanks engaged.

- Second attack : 28th to 31st May 1940 - 4e DCR
The 4e DCR led by General De Gaulle. The French troops despite loosing many tanks inflicted heavy losses to the Germans. The bridgehead is drastically reduced but the bridges in Abbeville and Mont de Caubert (hill) are still in German hands.

The French troops consists in :

Tanks and armored cars :
46e BCC (13 B1bis tanks)
47e BCC (19 B1bis tanks)
44e BCC (45 brand new R35 tanks)
2/24e BCC (20 Renault R35 tanks)
10e Cuirassiers (11 Panhard P178 armored cars)
3e Cuirassiers (40 Hotchkiss H-39 and 39 Somua S-35).
TOTAL : 176 tanks and 11 armored cars
Atfer the engagement about 110 AFVs are not operational anymore (destroyed, damaged, under repaire, under maintenance), including 22 B1bis tanks.
The 44e BCC is engaged with its R35 tanks but like all the other tank attacks they are defeated by mines, 8.8cm FlaK and 10.5cm leFH firing in AT role.

Infantry : 6 battalions
4e BCP (622 men, losses = 54 men)
7e RDP (1/7e and 2/7e RDP = 1400 men, losses = 159 men)
22e RIC (1/22e, 2/22e and 3/22e RIC = 2500 men, losses = 600 men).
TOTAL : 4522 men
LOSSES : 813 men (including 80 POWs)

Artillery :
322e RATTT (2 groups of 12x 105mm guns)
305e RATTT (1 group of 12x 105mm guns)
1 group of 12 75mm guns
elements of the 2 DLC : 1 group of 12x 105mm guns

De Gaulle first wanted to cross the Somme and to attack Abbeville from the North. Several reconnaissance patrols revealed that all the bridges were either destroyed or controlled by the Germans. They wanted to cross the river in other areas but there were no bridging elements in the division and engineer elements that could have been used were too far away.
The French attack was launched as soon as possible, no time for reconnaissance of the area before, the units were engaged as soon as they arrived. The vehicles had already traveled a long way just before the attack, they arrived and deployed at night and the men did not sleep for a long time.
At first the objective was to cross the Somme River and to join the encircled armies of the North. Due to the degradation of the general situation the actual objective was to reduce the German pocket and to destroy the bridge in Abbeville. The French army in fact launched about 13 more or less important attacks along the Somme River during this period, in Amiens, in Abbeville etc.
The 4e DCR during the first push of its attack took the village of Huppy where the German III/IR.217 is destroyed. The IR.217 and IR.179 fled in panic and a breakthrough of a dozen km has been achieved. After the French attack, the German pocket was reduced to an area of 600m large and 2km long.

- Third attack : 4th June 1940 - 2e DCR + Commonwealth troops
Between 1st and 5th June 1940 the 2e DCR (Colonel Perré) and Scottish troops (51st HD, General Fortune) replaced the 4e DCR. On 4th June the Mont de Caubert is taken, it is close to a victory but the Germans crushed the general front around. It was like closing a door while the walls around are collapsing. The attack is supported by about 200 artillery pieces for the biggest allied artillery concentration of 1939/1940.

In front of Abbeville (during 3 counter-attacks between 27th May and 5th June) the Germans sustained about 2,000-2,500 KIAs + WIAs and 400 POWs. Many vehicles, AT guns, AA guns, HMGs and mortars of the 57.ID were destroyed or captured. A whole battalion (III/IR.217) was wiped out in one attack of the 4e DCR in Huppy. Several German companies were reduced to only about 20-30 men. But the French troops lost a lot of tanks during this battle. Many German companies were reduced to about 30 men. For example the platoon led by Franz Arsan (from the 3rd company of the I/179.IR : 50 men, 4 NCOs, 3 MGs) has been reduced to 21 men including 2 NCOs and 1 MG. Arsan has been awarded EK1, EK2 as well as the assault badge. The 179.IR got 20 awards and 12 of them went to Arsan’s platoon. There were many close combats and hand to hand fighting between the German and the French infantry.

French tanks = shock elements to destroy enemy strongpoints and allow the infantry to advance, not conceived for deep breakthrough operations deep into the enemy lines in the French doctrine.

6) The 24e BCC at Montcornet.
The regiment is also part of the 4e DCR but unlike the other units of the 4e DCR was not constituted in the emergency with everything that was available. This BCC had been created in August 1939 and participated already to the attack on the Sarre area on in September 1939.
On 16th May the battalion is attached to the 4e DCR. The platoon (3 tanks) of sous-lieutenant Jeanney (3/24e BCC) is ordered to defend the bridge of Chivres. At 19h30 a German column with 3 armored cars and motorcycles is destroyed. During the night 2 more side-cars are destroyed. At 5h30 on 17th May an other German column is attacked. The German column is destroyed : 23 KIAs, 33 POWs, 1 armored car destroyed, 2 75mm field guns destroyed or captured, 18 soft skin vehicles destroyed or captured, 6 motorcycles destroyed or captured and numerous radio sets captured.
The 24e BCC takes part to the attack on Montcornet (except this platoon). The town of Lislet and Montcornet are reached as well as the bridges on the Serre River, but the French tanks in Montcornet lack infantry support. Several tanks are destroyed by AT mines but they resist to the 3.7cm PaK except to the close range shots. Finally the battalion looses 7 tanks.

During the attack on Montcornet the French engages 90 tanks from various units :
- 46e BCC (about 30 Renault B1bis tanks)
- Elements of the 2e BCC and of the 24e BCC (Renault R35 tanks)
- Renault D2 tanks from the 345e CACC
- Infantry from the 4e BCP

They face German troops from various units including :
- AA 90 (10.PzD)
- few tanks from the 10.PzD coming just out of the repair unit
- 666.Pionier battalion
- 56. Flak battalion
- Luftwaffe (Stuka dive bombers attacks)


The French units advances on 12 km and goes back. From the 90 engaged tanks 23 are lost (9 B1bis, 2 D2 and 12 R35), largely because of the 8.8cm FlaK.
The French human losses are nonetheless weak : 14 KIAs, 6 WIAs and 9 MIAs. On the German side the French reports having killed about 100 Germans captured 130 POWs.

On 18th May the 24e BCC is in defense in front of Laon and on 19th May it takes part to the attack on Crécy-sur-Serre and looses no tanks this day.
On 20th May the battalion is attacked by the Luftwaffe and at 10h00 it defeats a German cavalry unit which sustains heavy losses. The 24e BCC defends then various accesses at Aubigny, Corbeney and Ville-au-Bois. The 1st company and tanks of the 3rd company are ordered to rescue a French motorized column encircled in La Ferme d'Hurtebise. They attack the German AT defenses and manage to rescue most of the French troops but 1 Renaut R35 is lost and the crew MIA. The battalion is then retreating and during this time 10-11 tanks are destroyed or abandoned for various reasons.
The battalion is then resting in Compiègne and takes part with the 4e DCR to the attack on the Abbeville bridgehead. Later it will fight during the retreat to the Loire River.

7) After the 1940 Western campaign, one can for example mention Operation Exporter (invasion of the French Levant = Lebanon + Syria) from 8th June to 11th July 1941. During this campaign, there were ad hoc formations with a total between them of 90 Renault R35 and FT17 tanks.
The allies (British, Indian, Australian, Free French) had a lot of difficulties when facing the Renault R35 tanks because they lacked proper AT guns to counter them. The British then used their 25 Pdr in AT role. In this campaign, the R35 fought with great success At Kouneitra for example they forced the 1st Bn, Royal Fusiliers to surrender for the first time of its history (470 POWs). It was cut off by a Vichy counter-attack and the entire battalion was lost.

Best regards,

David
Last edited by David Lehmann on 12 Aug 2005, 14:49, edited 1 time in total.

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David Lehmann
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#5

Post by David Lehmann » 12 Aug 2005, 14:47

Another example, several R35 of the 6e BCC are used on 13-14th May on the Meuse River in the Dinant-Houx area.

The 7.PzD and 5.PzD (540 tanks, 112 armored cars and 12 15cm sIG.33 auf PzI) have to cross the Meuse River in the area of Dinant (7.PzD) and Houx (5.PzD). Elements of the 1e DLC and of the 4e DLC are retreating behind the French lines in that area.

The 5e DIM has to defend a front of 16 km from Cave to Anhée :
• From Cave to Hun : 3e RI supported by 2 artillery groups (24 field guns)
• From Hun to Anhée : 129e RI supported by 2 artillery groups (24 field guns)
• Reserves : incomplete 39e RI (the second battalion is attached to the 18e DI)
• Reinforcements : 2 artillery groups (24 field guns) of the 77e RATTT (4e DLC)
66% of the automatic weapons are on the heights and 33% directly on the banks. Because of the many blind spots the artillery forward observers are all deployed along the bank.

The 18e DI has only 55% of its infantry on 13th May, 4 battalions out of 9 are still lacking and the whole divisions has only 21 AT guns. The division has to defend a front of 21 km between Houx and Hastière :
• At Houx and around Grange : the II/39e RI (5e DIM) makes liaison with the 5e DIM
• From Grange to Bouvignes : 2 battalions of the 66e RI
• Around Dinant : 2 battalions of the 77e RI
• South of Dinant : 1 battalion of the 125e RI
• Reserves : only 2 infantry companies
• Reinforcements : elements of the 1e DLC (the Hotchkiss H35 tank squadron, 2 artillery groups of the 75e RATTT and parts of the 5e RDP (motorized infantry), 19e RD (horse-mounted cavalry) and 1e RC(horse-mounted cavalry))
Even reinforced by elements of the 1e DLC, the 18e DI is too weak to stop a Panzerdivision.

The 7.PzD is opposed to the 18e DI. The 5.PzD is attacking the 5e DIM and the hinge between the 5e DIM and the 18e DI. All the bridges have been blown away when the first German AFVs where trying to cross them but a small lock on both sides of a small island in middle of the Meuse River is still intact. This lock is slightly south of Houx and just at the hinge of the 2 French divisions. If it had been blown away it would have created fords upstream.
Already during the 12th-13th May night, around 22h00 – 23h00, infantry elements of the Aufklärung Abteilung 8 (5.PzD) have crossed the Meuse River thanks to this lock and its small 1-meter wide footbridge. The 5.PzD is therefore the very first German unit having crossed the Meuse River. At 1h00 on 13th May these German troops are spotted. The French tries to warn general Corap (commander of the 9th Army) but all the attempts remain unsuccessful. A liaison manages to inform the general but at 16h30 only !
During all the night and a big part of the 13th May morning the II/39e RI fights alone against 3 German infantry battalions of the 5.PzD before being destroyed.
At 6h00 the small elements of the Aufklärung Abteilung 8 are reinforced by infantry battalions of the 5.PzD. The French artillery fires on all the accesses and exits of the lock. The footbridge is sprayed with LMG bullets from the few French troops in front of the lock. The German troops move to the house of the ford keeper and on the small islands, which hides their movements, by groups of 5 men separated by 100m gaps. One by one they try then to cross the foorbridge. The French LMGs are neutralized by the fire of the German artillery and tanks. At 10h00 about 1 German infantry company has managed to cross the lock with 10% losses.
The 1e GRDIm (reconnaissance group of the 5e DIM) is sent to the area between Haut-le-Wastia and Grange area to maintain the liaison with the 18e DI (about 13 Panhard 178, 12 Citroën-Kégresse P16 Mle1929, 4 AMR33/35s, 15 side-cars, 2 cars, 2 trucks, 4 light trucks, 24 FM 24/29 LMGs, 12 Hotchkiss Mle1914 MMGs, 2 60mm mortars and 4 25mm AT guns at full strength).
The German bridgehead (5.PzD) is still very weak and contains only infantry troops. The combats around Houx and Anhée involve mainly the 5e DIM. The battle around Haut-le-Wastia lasts all the day. The 5.PzD looses 24 KIA (including 2 officers) and 110 WIA (including 11 officers).

During the same time the 18e DI is mainly facing the 7.PzD. South of this bridgehead (5.PzD), the 66e RI is still holding the Hontoir farm, Sommière and Bouvignes. At the beginning of the afternoon, the 18e DI is ordered to counter-attack but with what ? There are not enough troops to defend the frontline which is attacked everywhere by the Germans of the 7.PzD.
A very violent battle opposes the 77e RI (18e DI) which will block the 7.PzD in front of Dinant and Bouvignes all the day long. The war diary of the 7.PzD gives a better view of the events unlike the memories of Rommel which are always tainted by self-advertisement. All the crossing attempts of the 7.PzD in front of Dinant are at first defeated. Unlike the 1.PzD at Sedan the 7.PzD has no Nebelwerfer unit to create smoke screens. Fire is set to several houses to make smoke. During several hours the crossing remains impossible and finally the motorcycle battalion of the 7.PzD is ordered to use the bridgehead of the 5.PzD at Houx to cross the Meuse River.
At the end of the day, only very small infantry elements of the 7.PzD have managed to cross the Meuse River in front of Dinant and Bouvignes. During the night 15 Panzer I and Panzer II reinforce the small bridgeheads thanks to barges. On 13th May the 7.PzD has lost 60 KIA (including 4 officers) and 222 WIA (including 15 officers). The 4 last infantry battalions of the 18e DI will finally arrive exhausted during the 13-14th May night.

On 14th May, the bridgeheads of both the 5.PzD and the 7.PzD are still very small. The 5.PzD has built 2 engineer bridges but one bridge is lost when a medium tank tries to cross it and ends in the river. The remaining bridge enables only the crossing of light tanks (Panzer I and Panzer II).
A French counter-attack is ordered against Houx with :
• I/39e RI
• III/39e RI
• 3/6e BCC (13 Renault R35 tanks)
• artillery support provided by the 18e DI

The infantry battalions have first to walk 14 km before reaching the departure line and they are immediately attacked by the Luftwaffe. The attack was planned at 18h00 but at 20h00 only several troops of the infantry battalions are ready. Nonetheless, the artillery preparation begins at 19h50 and at 20h00 the Renault R35 tanks begin the attack without infantry support.
The French tanks advance among the German troops and cross the whole bridgehead without losses. As they appear, hundreds of Germans surrender but the infantry is not following to capture them. After nightfall, the French tanks have to move back, pushing only several POWs in front of them. During the night more German tanks cross the Meuse River.

The town of Haut-le-Wastia is a strategic position, dominating the German bridgehead of Houx. A French counter-attack is launched on 14th May at 5h30 to seize the town. The troops involved are :
• The weapons squadron of capitaine Feuillatre (14e RDP, 1e DLC) with 8 Hotchkiss MGs, 4 81mm Brandt mortars and 4 25mm AT guns (if at full strength) provides the fire support protecting the advancing troops. There is no artillery support
• 1 squadron of the II/14e RDP attacks the north-east of the town
• Elements of the 1e GRDIm (3 AMR, 5 AMC P16 Mle1929 and 1 motorcycle platoon as foot infantry) attack on the north of the town
• The Hotchkiss H35 squadron from the 4e RAM (1e DLC) is also mentioned by several sources as taking part to the attack north of the town
• 2 companies of the II/129e RI attack the south of the town

The squadron of the II/14e RDP reaches the town and the elements of the 1e GRDIm outflank the German troops by the north but the 2 companies of the II/129e RI doesn't move at all for an unknown reason and seem not to have received the order to attack.

The town is seized by the French troops (roughly 2 infantry companies) after violent house by house combats. The AMC P16 Mle1929 armored cars fire in the windows of the occupied houses with their 37mm SA18 gun. In the twon, 46 men and 1 officer from the 7.PzD are taken POWs (other sources indicate troops from the 5.PzD but the French reports elements of the 7.PzD, which is possible since the motorcycle battalion of the 7.PzD has joined the bridgehead of the 5.PzD). The Germans flee, abandoning many weapons. Several captured MGs are used to fire on the retreating Germans. One 3.7cm PaK is towed by men towards the town but it is neutralized by the fire of the MG and the gun is abandoned. Nonetheless, the successful French troops of the 1e DLC and of 1e GRDIm will not be able to hold the town very long. The increasing intervention of German tanks changes the situation in Haut-le-Wastia. One French 25mm AT gun knocks out 7 German tanks but the numerous German tanks and the omnipresent Luftwaffe defeat the French troops, which are forced to move back.

The strategic situation is becoming worse and worse after the breakthrough at Sedan. On 13th May, the 18e DI managed to defeat the assaults of the 7.PzD but on 14th May the front held by the division is collapsing because of the German tanks which crossed the Meuse River. The 77e RI and 125e RI are dislocated and move back while fighting. On 14th May morning, the 7.PzD achieves a breakthrough in the area defended by the 18e DI. Panzer Regiment 25 (7.PzD) attacks Onhaye (about 5 km south of Haut-Le-Wastia) from the west but the attack stops due to heavy French AT and artillery fire. Several German tanks are destroyed. Rommel is the first line in a Panzer III command tank requests air support to take out the enemy AT and artillery positions. The tank of the commander of the 7.PzD is knocked out by an AT gun and Rommel is WIA. The 13 Renault R35 tanks (3/6e BCC) supporting the 18e DI are dispersed in blockades on the roads instead of being used grouped against the German tank regiment. Anyway with the growing number of German tanks crossing the Meuse River they would probably not have been able to change the situation especially not with their 37mm SA18 guns.

On 14th May, after a strong resistance, the 18e DI is defeated and its front is broken. North of the 18e DI, 5e DIM is still holding its position and the 22e DI. South of the 18e DI, the 22e DI is under heavy German pressure but is still holding its position.

The 9th Army engages the 4e DINA (general Sancelme) and the 1e DCR (general Bruneau), recently detached in a hurry from the 1st Army. The 4e DINA begins to move from Trélon to the Meuse River in Belgium on 12th May. It is not a motorized unit. On 14th May morning the division is still moving to the front. Initially intended to counter-attack on 15th May with the 1e DCR, the 4e DINA is ordered to create a new line at the level of Philippeville and to regroup the retreating elements of the 18e DI and 22e DI. The 4e DINA is the last reserve of the 9th Army and will be engaged in small groups, as they arrive on the planned frontline, without being able to create a continuous front.
Both the 4e DINA and the 1e DCR will have to fulfil a mission of sacrifice in a defensive battle against the 5.PzD and the 7.PzD. On 15th May both divisions are dispersed and just arriving in their planned deployment areas. The 1e DCR is just arriving in the area of Flavion about 15 km west of Dinant. The tanks are out of fuel and the unit is not aware of the position or the type of the enemy units. The 4e DINA has just 1 regiment around Philippeville some 12 km south-west of Flavion to face the tanks of 7.PzD avoiding the 1e DCR.

Regards,

David

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#6

Post by seppalar » 12 Aug 2005, 23:39

David,

thank you very much for all of that info. I hope you're cutting and pasting this from something you have already done, that a lot of typing! :D

I gather that my premise is more or less correct - the French light tanks are generally unfairly derided and were in fact relatively successful.

by the way, I find it intereesting that the French use Cuirassee, from the Latin for leather (as in leather armour), to describe armour while most other continentals derive their terms from the French Panciere, ie. Panzer, Pancerna, Pancelos. The French have used their word for the armour of the chest while the rest use the French word for the armour of the belly (paunch is the English word of the same derivation).

thank you again for your most impressive contribution,

yours respectfully,
Rick Seppala

P.S. I'm a bit embarassed as a Canadian but I cannot remember how to get the various French accents out of a text editor.

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David Lehmann
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#7

Post by David Lehmann » 12 Aug 2005, 23:50

Hi,

I wouldn't say that the French light tanks were necessarily bad, I would say some were rather good for the mission they had to achieve. Nonetheless in the 1940 battles they proved generally lacking a good gun and were too many times badly used (e.g. in too small numbers on various road blockades). Even if not as worse as the FT17 ancestor, the R35 remained mainly too slow and lacked mobility to face the faster German tanks in tank vs tank warfare. But for their original mission (infantry support) they were not bad.

PS : Yes I am larging quoting from other documents I have already written ... but I still had to type them ;)

Regards,

David

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David Lehmann
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#8

Post by David Lehmann » 13 Aug 2005, 07:37

Hello,

Here are several insignias of tank battalions equipped with Renault R35 tanks :
Attachments
3e BCC.JPG
3e BCC.JPG (21.2 KiB) Viewed 2613 times
2e BCC.jpg
2e BCC.jpg (20.62 KiB) Viewed 2613 times
1e BCC.JPG
1e BCC.JPG (16.38 KiB) Viewed 2613 times

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David Lehmann
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#9

Post by David Lehmann » 13 Aug 2005, 07:38

Several other ones :
Attachments
21e BCC.jpg
21e BCC.jpg (17.28 KiB) Viewed 2611 times
9e BCC.JPG
9e BCC.JPG (26.47 KiB) Viewed 2612 times
6e BCC.JPG
6e BCC.JPG (17.35 KiB) Viewed 2612 times

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