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Oob Fall Blau, June 28 1942

Discussions on WW2 in Eastern Europe.

Oob Fall Blau, June 28 1942

Postby Königstiger on 19 Oct 2005 10:34

I'm trying to compile the Soviet order of battle at the eve of Fall Blau, June 28 1942 (only to army level). What I'm mainly looking for are the commanders of the Soviet army's. Who can complete this order of battle? (I'm only trying to compile the information regarding the Soviet troops facing Heeresgruppe Süd, not the entire front.)

Bryansk Front (Golikov)

13th Army (Poechov)
40th Army (Parsegov)
21th Army (Gordov)
28th Army (Ryabyshev)

South-West Front (Timoshenko)

38th Army (Moskalenko)
9th Army (?)
37th Army (?)
12th Army (Grechko)

South Front (Malinovsky)

18th Army (?)
56th Army (?)

North-Caucasian Front (Budenny)

?

Thank you very much in advance for your remarks!

Regards,
Auke
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Postby Steen Ammentorp on 19 Oct 2005 16:42

Bryansk Front (Golikov)

13th Army (Poechov)
40th Army (Parsegov)
21th Army (Gordov)
28th Army (Ryabyshev)

South-West Front (Timoshenko)

38th Army (Moskalenko)
9th Army (Lopatin)
37th Army (Kozlov)
12th Army (Grechko)

South Front (Malinovsky)

18th Army (Zakharov)
56th Army (Korovnikov)

North-Caucasian Front (Budenny)

44th Army (Kriashchev)
47th Army (Kotov)
51st Army (Kuznetsov)


I have added the information in italics. However I am a bit unsure about the army attached to North-Caacasian front.

Kind Regards
Steen Ammentorp
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Postby Königstiger on 19 Oct 2005 18:51

Thank you very much for your efforts Steen! Your site is great by the way, but unfortunately all the dates are given in years only, no months or days, so I couldn't use it to complete the commanders list.

Regards,
Auke
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Postby Steen Ammentorp on 19 Oct 2005 19:52

You are welcome. You will have to be patient with dates on Generals.dk I am currently adding dates but it takes time. But eventually ;-)

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Postby Königstiger on 19 Oct 2005 20:47

That would be great! I'll be looking forward to it!
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Postby kosta on 20 Oct 2005 02:21

According to the BSSA:

Bryansk Front- 3rd, 13th, 40th, 48th Armies
5th Tank Army, 2nd Air Army

SWest Front- 9th, 21st, 28th, 38th, 57th Armies
8th Air Army

South Front- 12th, 18th, 24th, 37th, 56th Armies
4th Air Army

NCaucasus Front- 47th, 51st Armies
Coastal Army
5th Air Army

TransCaucasus Front- 44th, 46th Armies

The 45th Army was in TransCaucasus MD, but under RVGK control

I am not sure why there is conflicting info on which Armies are under which Fronts?
What was the source for the first listing of units?
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Postby Lars on 20 Oct 2005 09:27

What were the Soviet forces in Northern Iran at the time of Case Blue?
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Postby Königstiger on 20 Oct 2005 09:36

Thank you very much kosta!

kosta wrote:I am not sure why there is conflicting info on which Armies are under which Fronts?
What was the source for the first listing of units?

I mainly used the book Stalingrad by Stephen Walsh and a map I found somewhere on the internet. However the information by Walsh and the map can be interpreted different ways, so it is possible that your source was correct and the first list was wrong.
And do you, or Steen, know something about the missing commanders...?

Bryansk Front (Golikov)

3rd Army
13th Army (Puchov)
40th Army (Parsegov)
48th Army
5th Tank Army (Lizyukov)

South-West Front (Timoshenko)

21th Army (Gordov)
28th Army (Ryabyshev)
38th Army (Moskalenko)
9th Army (Lopatin)
57th Army

South Front (Malinovsky)

37th Army (Kozlov)
12th Army (Grechko)
18th Army (Zakharov)
56th Army (Korovnikov)
24th Army

North-Caucasian Front (Budenny)

47th Army (Kotov)
51st Army (Kuznetsov)
Coastal Army (Petrov)
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Postby kosta on 21 Oct 2005 03:51

Was something going on in the summer of 1942?
Look at the turnover rate in these Army commands!

Briansk Front- Golikov- 4/42-7/42
Chibisov- 7/42
Rokossovski- 7/42-9/42
SWest Front- Timoshenko- 4/42-7/42
Vatutin- 10/42-3/43
South Front- Malinovsky- 12/41-7/42
NCaucasus Front- Budenny- 5/42-9/42
TCaucasus Front- Tyulenev- 5/42-1945!!

3rd A- Korzun- 5/42-6/43
5th TA- Rybalko- 8/42-10/42
12th A- Grechko- 4/42-9/42
13th A- Puchov- 2/42-1945!!
18th A- Kamkov- 4/42-10/42
21st A- Gordov- 10/41-6/42
Danilov- 6/42-10/42
24th A- Smirnov- 5/42-7/42
Martsinkevich-7/42-8/42
Chomenko- 8/42
Kozlov- 8/42-10/42
28th A- Tyulenev-11/41-5/42
Ryabyshev- 5/42-7/42
Kryuchenkin- 7/42-9/42
37th A- Lopatin-11/41-6/42
Kozlov PM- 6/42-5/43
38th A- Moskalenko- 3/42-7/42
Chibisov- 8/42-10/43
40th A- Parsegov- 3/42-7/42
Popov- 7/42- 10/42
47th A- Kolganov- 2/42-5/42
Kotov- 5/42-9/42
48th A- Chalyuzhin- 5/42-2/43
51st A- Kotov-5/42
Kirichenko- 5/42-6/42
Kuznetsov- 6/42-7/42
Trufanov- 7/42
Kolomietz- 7/42-9/42
56th A- Chuganov- 12/41-7/42
Ryshov- 7/42-1/43
57th A- Podlas- 2/42-5/43
Batyumia- 5/42-6/42
Nikishev- 6/42-7/42
Tolbukhin- 7/42-3/43

Red Army in Iran- From Central Asian MD- 58th RC- 68th&83rd Mt Rds
39th Mt Kd
From TCaucasus MD- 15th KK- 1st&23rd Kds
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Postby Lars on 21 Oct 2005 09:22

kosta wrote:Red Army in Iran- From Central Asian MD- 58th RC- 68th&83rd Mt Rds
39th Mt Kd
From TCaucasus MD- 15th KK- 1st&23rd Kds


Kosta,

Thanks a lot!

A few more questions:

How many Soviet soldiers were in Iran at the beginning of Case Blue (approx.)?

Do you know how many (if any) of the Soviet soldiers in Iran which were send to the Caucasus front up until October while the Germans were still still advancing?

And can you estimate how many more could have been send to the Caucasus if the situation got really crititcal (e.g. the Germans were aproaching Baku)?

I believe I need some reading aid to your post . MD obviously means Military District, RC means Rifle Corps, Mt means Moutain. But KK and Rds? I would really appriciate if you would spell out all the abrivations in the above quote from you.

Another abrivation is RVKG. What is it?
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Postby Königstiger on 21 Oct 2005 10:00

Thanks a lot kosta, your help is great. Now my list is complete.
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Postby kosta on 21 Oct 2005 11:39

RVGK= reserves of the high command( Stalin)
KK= cavalry corps
Rds= rifle divisions
Sorry about that!

During 1942 there was only one unit that was moved to the Caucasus, to help stop the 1st Panzer Army,
the 402nd Rd. In 11/42 it was sent to 44th Army.
There were two units that were kept near the border of Iran, the 402nd and the 75th. This was the Reserve for the
Iranian Group.
Not counting the Reserve Group, all told some 25-30,000 men would have comprised the forces in Iran.
So some 10,000 men were moved to the north to help at Grozny.
This was only a small occupation force, but of some interest to study!
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Postby Lars on 21 Oct 2005 12:05

kosta wrote:RVGK= reserves of the high command( Stalin)
KK= cavalry corps
Rds= rifle divisions
Sorry about that!

During 1942 there was only one unit that was moved to the Caucasus, to help stop the 1st Panzer Army,
the 402nd Rd. In 11/42 it was sent to 44th Army.
There were two units that were kept near the border of Iran, the 402nd and the 75th. This was the Reserve for the
Iranian Group.
Not counting the Reserve Group, all told some 25-30,000 men would have comprised the forces in Iran.
So some 10,000 men were moved to the north to help at Grozny.
This was only a small occupation force, but of some interest to study!


Many thanks, Kosta.

So, the additional forces that could be send north from Iran in case the Germans aprroached Baku was pretty meagre. The same goes for the forces that could have been send north from the Turkish border to Batumi, in case the Germans were aproaching Batumi.

Right?
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Postby kosta on 21 Oct 2005 13:03

The Transcaucasus MD was vital to supplying units to help hold the Caucasus Mt passes, at the end of 1942.
It sent these units: 9/42- 61st Rd to 46th A
89th Rd to reserve TCaucasus Front
151st Rd to 9th A
10/42- 408th Rd to Black Sea Group
11/42- 402nd Rd to 44th A
320th Rd to reserve TCaucasus Front

Also there was a 207th Tank Brigade in the Iran Group!
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Postby Lars on 21 Oct 2005 13:19

Kosta,

Mighty thanks!

So none of the Iranian border forces were send north to beef up the western Caucasus defenses?

(I know this is - just - off topic but I´ve been trying to find out for years now, so bear with me :) )
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