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Allied War Crime Bleiburg

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Allied War Crime Bleiburg

Postby Wolffen on 04 Oct 2002 10:59

I came across this when doing some resherch!

Was any one held responsable for this?

here the link http://www.croatia.net/bleiburg/
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Postby Roberto on 04 Oct 2002 11:32

Wolffen wrote:I came across this when doing some resherch!

Was any one held responsable for this?

here the link http://www.croatia.net/bleiburg/


I don't know, but it seems that the Croatians exaggerated the death toll of Tito's postwar massacres as much as Tito's government and Serb nationalists exaggerated the massacres committed by the fascist Ustase against the Serb minority during World War II:

http://www.srpska-mreza.com/library/facts/ww2.html

Fortunately, it seems that there are also more level-headed assessments of the losses suffered and atrocities committed by all participants in former Yugoslavia during World War II and thereafter.

Some of them can be found under this link:

http://www.wargamer.com/sp/ww2/

Exaggerations notwithstanding, what either side did during this multi-lateral war and its aftermath was bad enough. The underlying mentality was accurately described by German general Lother Rendulic. In a book called Genocide in Satellite Croatia, 1941-1945: A Record of Racial and Religious Persecutions and Massacres, by Edmond Paris, translated by Lois Perkins, published by The American Institute for Balkan Affairs, Chicago, in 1961, Rendulic is quoted as having said the following about the massacre of Serbs by the Ustase:

While German troops were still in several places in Croatia, the Croatians began a beastly persecution of the Orthodox (Serbs). At this time at least a half million people were killed. An unbelievable governing mentality was responsible, as I learned in August 1943 when I received the answer to a question of mine from a govenment functionary in the circle of the chief of state. When I said that I could not at all understand how it was possible, in spite of all the hatred, to kill half a million people, he answered: ‘Half a million is libelous. No more than 200,000 were killed.’ Against this type of thinking ... one can do nothing with arguments. During the period of my command, signs appeared of a new persecution of the Orthodox. That persecution caused me no end of trouble and I finally had to put a stop to it with energetic measures and threats of force.


Rendulic was talking about the fascist Ustase, but he could have said the same about the Serb Cetniks or Tito's partisans. A description of the latter’s behavior towards the German ethnic minority can be read on the following thread of this forum:

The Fate of Ethnic Germans in Yugoslavia
http://www.thirdreichforum.com/phpBB2/v ... 8fe5f3be98

The co-responsibility of British troops who allowed Tito's partisans to get hold of Croatian troops and refugees is another issue. It parallels the handing over of tens of thousands of Vlassov soldiers and Cossacks who had fought on the German side to the Red Army in Germany and Austria.
As in the case of Bleiburg, the Allies knew very well what would happen to these people.

Where is Dunno, by the way? Or is the term supposed to mean “don’t know”?
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Postby Wolffen on 04 Oct 2002 11:53

It on the border of the Slovenia and Austria think should be a big mass grave! Think the numbers are right dunno.

Think what British did is against the Geneva Convention because they surrendered. Is it not sure never read he document




:idea:
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Postby Wolffen on 09 Oct 2002 15:23

There is not good evil only gray !!!!!!
All sides did war crimes but victors won!



:aliengray
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Postby Caldric on 09 Oct 2002 17:10

Wolffen wrote:There is not good evil only gray !!!!!!
All sides did war crimes but victors won!



:aliengray



Yes but some did a hell of a lot more then others. You have to look pretty hard to find US/UK war crimes, and they WERE NEVER POLICY, in fact in most cases the criminal was harshly dealt with by Military Tribunal. 2 Officers of the 45th ID were found guilty of murder and sent to the front where they perished. I mean what is the best punishment for a criminal during the war? Firing squad or to the front of the assault.
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hmmmmm

Postby Wolffen on 10 Oct 2002 19:07

Yes was any one punished for this ???


What about the A-bombs??????????????????????????????????????
Any one punished for the a-bomb?

Russian Gulags? Stalin killed 6 millon of his own people and basicly all German pow.

There is no good and evil only gray it was like that in all the wars not only ww2 and will be!


:aliengray
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Postby witness on 10 Oct 2002 19:28

There is not good evil only gray !!!!!!

Interesting- if somebody did some mean things to you would those injustices seem "gray''to you personally by your opinion ?
If somebody came to your home to kill and robb and you than retaliated would your crimes and the crimes of the intruder be the same ?
No difference ahh ?
8O
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Postby Wolffen on 10 Oct 2002 20:22

that a typo
shoud be there is no good and evil only gray it an expression what I mean by this is that all sides did war crimes not only one side
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Postby Caldric on 10 Oct 2002 20:35

A-Bomb was not a war crime. For the 640th time, was not against any international laws. Look it up.
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hmmmmmm

Postby Wolffen on 10 Oct 2002 20:57

Well I ask you this who wrote the war crimes law?????????????
It could be made so that it cant backfire I am not sating here anything just saying like a conspiracy theory probably wrong

Well seams strange because it was a deliberate attack on civilians and that it was used to save American lifes does not hold any water!

Are American lives worth more then the Japanese lives????????


I do not get this because a Yugoslav general is being tried in Hage because of over use of artillery on town with military targets or something like that. Then I ask you what the a-bomb then?
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Postby Caldric on 10 Oct 2002 21:04

Many nations wrote the Geneva and Hauge treaties, well before WWII.


As an American are Japanese lives worth less then Americans during a war, do you really need an answer to that? Of course Americans are more important to Americans. Do you think for one second that the Japanese placed any importance on the lives of Americans? Were Germans to Germans more important then Soviets? I mean come on that is a silly question.

What part do you not get? This is 2002, that was 1945 two different worlds, two different sets of rules.

It was a attack against the Enemy, in truth when civilians are turning out war production they are soldiers.
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Postby Wolffen on 10 Oct 2002 21:24

Exactly you proved my point so basically the allied did to Japanese had same result as what Germans did with Jews. Just with different tools Zhiklon B vs. A-Bomb it same result. Speaking technically of course we cant compare the Final solution to a-bomb one a war method other is systematic murder. They are very different but the essence and the core of the matter it the same; same principle with same result.

There are still hunts going for Nazis recently some 90 year guy was prosecuted for killing Jews. Then Japanese can go and hunt and judge the pilots of who dropped the bomb if still alive. Same thing just a different side of the medal.

This argument can go on and on.
One thing is for sure both sides did crimes if you call them war crimes or not does not matter. No one is an angel in a war that my point


Both Sides are gulty!!!! That my point and I end this descussion here
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Postby Caldric on 10 Oct 2002 21:35

Exactly you proved my point so basically the allied did to Japanese had same result as what Germans did with Jews. Just with different tools Zhiklon B vs. A-Bomb it same result. Speaking technically of course we cant compare the Final solution to a-bomb one a war method other is systematic murder. They are very different but the essence and the core of the matter it the same; same principle with same result.


All I proved is that you do not know anything about the subject and should go find out for yourself before making such baseless statements as the one above.
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Postby Wolffen on 10 Oct 2002 21:41

Well oki M8 I Will :wink:

But what logic and morality dictates is that a-bomb was a crime!!!!

Saying it not is like saying that Final Solution never happened and was made up in Hollywood basement!!!!!!
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Postby Korbius on 10 Oct 2002 22:23

hehehe, probably the "final solution" was made in a basement in Hollywood, but as we all know, Victors write the history, and it could have been made up!!! :P
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