Pictures of Vittorio Emmanuele III

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jankiel
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Pictures of Vittorio Emmanuele III

#1

Post by jankiel » 23 Dec 2005, 00:09

I really need those, could anyone help me?? Please ;)



luigi
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#3

Post by luigi » 23 Dec 2005, 12:14

Davide Pastore wrote:
(Note: Emanuele with just one "M" )

Davide
Interesting is also the nickname of "sciaboletta" ("little sabre") given to him by people's mouth :lol:

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SM79Sparviero
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#4

Post by SM79Sparviero » 23 Dec 2005, 14:45

Happy Christmas everybody.

Another joke about the small king was the nickname "Curtatone & Montanara " given after seeing him close to his wife, queen Elena di Montenegro, by the young duke Amedeo d' Aosta ( who will die prisoneer of Allieds after the ingenuous defence of the empire and the desperate battle of Amba Alagi).

This joke is not easy to explain to non-italian people: Curtatone & Montanara were two important battles of italian independence wars , all Savoia ruling family had the maximal respect for any event of independence wars ( wich allowed them to extend Piemont more than to create an Italian nation)." Curtatone" sounds similar to "corto"=short ( the "short" king). Montanara = "woman coming from countryside, from mountains"= Queen Elena di Montenegro.

King Sciaboletta.Consanguineal marriages usually make strange jokes.......
He was not stupid at all , howewer, he could not be compared to his father Vittorio Emanuele II, pitifully callled "re galantuomo"=good-man-king just to avoid much worse nicks ( he was one of the few who can be rightly called "father of the nation :D ).....V.E.III was one of the most intelligent men of Savoia family, with a fine cultural background and a good political instinct.His problems were characterial, he was deeply unfaithful about man in general and Italians in particular, he was probably a chronical depressed......

this doesn't want to be an apology of the king: the more you are intelligent and competent the more you are guilty for the errors in your decisions..... .

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Davide Pastore
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#5

Post by Davide Pastore » 23 Dec 2005, 15:35

SM79Sparviero wrote:Montanara = "woman coming from countryside, from mountains"= Queen Elena di Montenegro.
More probably, "Montanara" = "as high as a mountain", compared to her husband.

There was a famous picture, which unfortunately I was unable to retrieve, of VE & Elena, their heads at the same level... with VE's feet over a little ladder, which rested on Elena's side. Amazing.
SM79Sparviero wrote:he was one of the few who can be rightly called "father of the nation
May I recommend to you any book by Angelo del Boca about the Savoia tribe? Excellent reading. You are 100% guarantee to lose any sympathy for "those people" [R. E. Lee]

Davide

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SM79Sparviero
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#6

Post by SM79Sparviero » 23 Dec 2005, 18:51

May I recommend to you any book by Angelo del Boca about the Savoia tribe? Excellent reading. You are 100% guarantee to lose any sympathy for "those people" [R. E. Lee]
Not all "those people". Someone had an ingenuous behaviour also because he had not ever really been a militar strategist but he chose to go on fighting side-to-side with his infantrymen and ascari up to the last bullet , even if he had the chance to run away to Italy by the last SM-79.

The wrong Savoia ruled in Italy.

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SM79Sparviero
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#7

Post by SM79Sparviero » 23 Dec 2005, 19:08

Vittorio Emanuele II can be rightly called "father of the nation" because, when he was not undertaken with hunting to wildboars and rock-goats he had been father many times. :lol:

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Lupo Solitario
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#8

Post by Lupo Solitario » 23 Dec 2005, 19:20

interesting debate...


personally I tend to belive that the surname "montanara" is to be intended as "woman from mountain" as reference to the low consideration of a person coming from an undeveloped country as pre-WWI Montenegro (Note: anyway Elena had been educated at Russian court and had been a teen love of Marshal Mannerheim....).

Told this, VEIII was completely different from his grandfather (and from his father too). I agree on description given, I add only that it's difficult to evalutate his personal courage, perhaps his trouble was more having too much taste for hidden moves and plots than simply being a coward. In general terms, Savoia had rarely shown cowardice on battlefield, the trouble was always when was time to use brain and not blood...

My opinion, anyway

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#9

Post by menik » 24 Dec 2005, 18:25

Lupo Solitario wrote:interesting debate...
Savoia had rarely shown cowardice on battlefield, the trouble was always when was time to use brain and not blood...
VEIII was the King and in 1943 was responsible for the collapse of the army and of the state. He was not the only responsible but he was responsible too. if we assume the worse point of view, that of the king ( and of Badoglio ) was an escape. I think that is not is possible consider the character of a dynasty... perhaps many of Savoia were brave, but I don't find examples of courage of VEIII
marco

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Lupo Solitario
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#10

Post by Lupo Solitario » 24 Dec 2005, 19:30

Logically a person is always responsible for his own, but a monarch is heavily educated to keep his ancestors as models and VEIII felt deeply the heritage of a thousand years long dynasty.
The model of VEIII was probably Vittorio Amedeo II who in 1704 made something very similiar to what he did in 1943...but with completely different results. As I told, we are debating about something more complex than simple fear

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DrG
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#11

Post by DrG » 25 Dec 2005, 22:06

Jankiel, given that this is your first message and that I have a high opinion of the King (unlike, it seems, most of the Italians here), attached to this post of mine there is a little Christmas gift for you.
About the quite tasteless jokes about Vittorio Emanuele's III height (well, these aren't the first ones, given that already more than a century ago the Kaiser Wilhelm II, whose withered arm was not perfect anyway, mocked his much more clever "cousin" in such a way), here is a photo of him with his beloved (and not terribly taller) wife Elena Petrovich di Montenegro:
Image

Merry Christmas.

PS Instead of Lorenzo Del Boca's libellous books (Angelo Del Boca prefers to slander, more broadly, the Italian Armed Forces), I suggest: Aldo Alessandro Mola, "Storia della Monarchia in Italia", Bompiani, 2002 (don't be mistaken by the Iron Crown on the bookcover: except for a quite superficial chapter about the Italic Kingdom of the IX-X centuries, most of the book is about the Risorgimento).
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King of Italy and Albania, Emperor of Ethiopia wearing his uniform of First Marshall of the Empire:
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SM79Sparviero
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#12

Post by SM79Sparviero » 26 Dec 2005, 17:30

Jankiel, given that this is your first message and that I have a high opinion of the King (unlike, it seems, most of the Italians here), attached to this post of mine there is a little Christmas gift for you.
Merry Christmas everybody.
Yes I have a personal low opinion about King Vittorio Emanuele III but not for he was small,tall, fat , thin etc.....those are jokes that are futile for a judgement, I myself would smile if someone expressed such jokes about the morphology of my person by the tone we used.......

I don't usualy feel an instinctual cordial attitude towards NOBLES not for a lack of respect to them as persons ,but because in my personal opinion nobility is not always a good businness.It is,among many other things, an heavy weight that you are called to carry EACH MINUTE OF YOUR LIFE with your behaviour.Many people can have a pedigree, few have good shoulders......

But this is no more than a general,very personal opinion.Let's go back to the facts:

-If you are the "referee" of your gouvernment and someone is marching to Rome for a golpe you have not only the option but the DUTY to stop the game of the gouvernment and YOU must become the temporary leader ( Facta had resigned)until the political/social situation is stabilized.Someone else in his family had showed greater decision when he had to face a popular mutiny, surely too much decision , and gave later an award to the executor as a signature .The threat to the state was futile if compared to the march to Rome, and it was a "statal crime" but the king is still remembered as "il re buono"= the good king.

-If you are the supreme leader of Armed Forces you have the DUTY to stand and give orders to your officers when your army is becoming more and more desbanded and perplexed just for the lacking of clear orders.

Duke Amedeo d' Aosta made many errors in the defence of the empire, EX: the dispersion of the armed forces over a too large territory , the faith in his old British friends for an honourable agreement , the lack of any offensive attitude ( the only time that Italians really attacked, they won), the wasting of aircrafts which could take deep attacks to the undefended Kenia and of submarines and other ships (ex. "Leone" class destroyer were sent to death without a plan) which could be a threat to Allieds.....

He made many errors but he was side -to-side with his men when the last bullet was shot and he died with his men as prisoneer of war in Kenia.
Someone could joke as well and say that he had been a dandy,but this man lived and died as a true noble.

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Davide Pastore
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#13

Post by Davide Pastore » 26 Dec 2005, 18:39

SM79Sparviero wrote: Someone else in his family had showed greater decision when he had to face a popular mutiny, surely too much decision , and gave later an award to the executor as a signature .The threat to the state was futile if compared to the march to Rome, and it was a "statal crime" but the king is still remembered as "il re buono"= the good king.
Just as a help to not-Italian friends, we are talking about our 1898 little public disturbances. The "good king", unfortunately shot by an anarchist in 1900 (that is, unfortunately shot two years too late) is Umberto I.
Of course I'm 100% in agreement with your post.

Davide

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Davide Pastore
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#14

Post by Davide Pastore » 30 Dec 2005, 13:30

DrG wrote: here is a photo of him with his beloved (and not terribly taller) wife Elena Petrovich di Montenegro
VEIII looks not terribly shorter than his wife for the same reason Sylvester Stallone looks not terribly shorter than his movie female partners: a creative use of the law of prospective.

OT, but interesting: Yela (Elena), before marrying VEIII, had come near to marry Mannerheim (source: Montanelli).

Davide
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DrG
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#15

Post by DrG » 30 Dec 2005, 14:49

Besides the photo, the fact that the difference of height was not that exceptional came from the direct testimony of a granduncle of mine, who met Their Majesties personally.
Anyway, some months ago I had promised to myself to stop posting in this forum, and thus I won't go on with this debate with you. My first post in this thread was intended as a mere Christmas gift (with a few comments too much, it seems), nothing more.
Best wishes.

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