Heavy and long-range bombers of the allies - exact losses

[BIGpanzer]

Mark V wrote:

Oh. It was that good ?? People in GB and US seeing something with red stars, propably first time in their lives, and becoming interested

Pe-8 was not a kind of UFO object, of course But you are right, civilians of GB and US saw the large Soviet aircraft which made long-range flights despite the German propaganda about total destruction of Red Air Forces and that was a good diplomatical step and small help to increase the unification of Allies in their efforts against Nazis.
TB-7/Pe-8 was the one of best heavy bomber for 1941 (I don't write the best one especially ; the only full superior was more modern B-29) and British/US pilots asked to show them the aircraft with great interest to compare it with their own "Lancasters", "Liberators" and "Flying Fortresses" during the landings of Pusep's bomber on airfields. And they always said: "Ok..very well...excellent aircraft..." (see the memoires of Pusep and other crewmembres, for example). The only main problem of Pe-8 was engines (different "raw" models of engines were used because of need of good AM-35A engines for MiG-3 and Il-2), that is why only Pe-8 with AM-35A engines was chosen for that important flight. Also habitability was on low level than of more comfortable Allied bombers (Soviet engineers developed excellent vehicles but seldom thought about crewmembers to decrease the cost of vehicles, the comfort had insufficient importance for Soviets) - Soviet long-range bomber pilots, who used several B-17s in 1945 mentioned easy control of Boeing during the flight (but worser control duting take-offs) and high level of comfort (good airtightness - Soviet pilots of Pe-8 were used to be at -50, drafts and snow/water inside the cabin at high speeds; toilet - Soviet pilots of Pe-8 used cans for that purpose), but observability for the 1st pilot of Pe-8 was better. The quality of Pe-8 was very good because of its low serial production and strict control (that was almost "handmade" aircraft also taking into consideration its technology of production), early ANT-42/TB-7 of 1938-1941 had even much better quality than Pe-8 of 1941-1944. It represented a great step forward in comparison with obsolete TB-3, having all-metal construction from different and rear composites (some were used for the first time in aircraft industry), excellent aerodynamics (cx = 0,027) and flight specifications for large 4-engine aircraft, modern equipment (hydroautopilot, fixed loop radio compass, two powerful radiostations with different antennas including long retractable one, quite good night bombing site, wing ice-protection system, fire protection system for each engine, hydraulic/electric drives, etc.) - UK/US specialists examined the bomber with great interest indeed (that doesn't mean that Allied specialists found something completely new for them, but they found the excellent level of Soviet aircraft industry).

Pusep wrote that he was afraid that some of Allied specialists could note the holes from German AA shells in the wings (just several days before that flight to Washington Pusep's bomber participated in dangerous air raid, and holes were patched up carefully but still visible - but his navigator said: "if our foreign friends saw the remains of combat damages - that will be even better, we show them that we are the bomber not just private airplane for important persons"), also Pusep wrote that he felt inconvenience during the landing on Washington's airfield and their greeting of honor by US people as all wings were covered by oil from overheating engines because of maximal speed during the last hours of flight (interesting info according to Pusep's navigator memoires - Canadians sent B-17 to escort Pe-8 from Montreal to Washington, but Boeing got behind soon and lost the Soviet bomber).
http://www.23ag.ru/assets/images/VVS_3_7.jpg (US pilots looked upon Pe-8, Washington, 1942)

PS. I found some additional info about use of FAB-5000 super-heavy bomb - 1) the explosion during its first test (the bomb was dropped from 2.5 km altitude over the large forest) caused the fall of 600 trees (diameter more than 20 cm was taken into consideration only); 2) the explosion at Orel railway station before Battle of Kursk caused completely destruction of all buildings and railing 250 m around, platforms with new "Tigers" on board flied around; 3) after drop of FAB-5000 over Königsberg Hitler made an official claim to his generals next day that he allow to use chemical weapon if Soviets do this ones more.

[Mark V]

PS. I found some additional info about use of FAB-5000 super-heavy bomb - 1) the explosion during its first test (the bomb was dropped from 2.5 km altitude over the large forest) caused the fall of 600 trees (diameter more than 20 cm was taken into consideration only); 2) the explosion at Orel railway station before Battle of Kursk caused completely destruction of all buildings and railing 250 m around, platforms with new "Tigers" on board flied around; 3) after drop of FAB-5000 over Königsberg Hitler made an official claim to his generals next day that he allow to use chemical weapon if Soviets do this ones more.

Hi BIGpanzer.

Thank you for interesting information about Molotovs visit to US.

In most cases the HC and FAB would make comparable damage to the target. The Brit weapon having an slight advantage on charge weight, and possibly with aluminized explosive content in later variants. You have asked more information about the weapon. But there is little. It is after all an very simple piece of steel and explosive matter, like the FAB-5000. We are talking about practically an lump of HE surrounded with just enough steel/concrete to keep it together for instantenous fuze to work. Rather boring weapons with little variables to discuss.

I would not make much conclusions about effects of invidual weapon explosion as an proof of something. The results of explosion between invidual cases can vary wildly, so it does not give much information. So, i refrain of posting something about that.


Regards, Mark V

[BIGpanzer]

Hi, Mark V!

Thank you for interesting information about Molotovs visit to US

You are welcome!

I would not make much conclusions about effects of invidual weapon explosion as an proof of something. The results of explosion between invidual cases can vary wildly, so it does not give much information. So, i refrain of posting something about that

I agree.

Regards, BP

[Juha Tompuri]

Here two photos of a Pe-8, crashed at Lapinjärvi, Finland
AFAIK 11th August 1941 after a Berlin bombing mission.
IIRC there has been erected a monument near the crash site.




http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... ht=#767769 (and the next page)

Regards, Juha

[BIGpanzer]

As I've written in my PM to you - excellent colour photos Many thanks!!!
As I've already mentioned also - this is TB-7 No. 42026 (1st pilot - senior lieutenant Panfilov). The bomber was damaged by German AA fire over Germany during the first Soviet bombing raid against Berlin, 10th August 1941 (on the way back as the bomber dropped bombs already), two engines M-40F were stopped because of oil leakage, the bomber couldn't reach Soviet territory and made an emergency landing in Finland (5 crew members were killed during that crash, others tried to reach Soviet front line on foot and AFAIK they were captured by Finns).

There are three another opinions (but the info above seems to be the most correct) - 1. German AA artillery damaged not only engines but navigation equipment also, so Panfilov lost his way to the home airfield (but crash was caused by the absence of fuel because of damage of engine fuel systems). 2. The bomber was knocked down by mistake by Soviet AA artillery of Baltic Sea and made emergency landing in Finland (mistake - that was TB-7 No. 42045 of major Tyagunin, made emergency landing in Soviet territory) 3. The bomber was knocked down by Finnish AA artillery - mistake.

I have two questions - did Germans asked Finns to give them that heavily damaged TB-7 for detailed investigation? What happened with captured by Finns crewmembers (12(11)-5 = 6-7 survived, were they killed/died in Finnish prison or returned back to USSR after the war)?

Also I have one note - it is incorrect to name that heavy bomber as Pe-8, the correct name for 1941 was TB-7 (Tyazhely Bombardirovshchik - 7, Heavy Bomber - 7). TB-7 was renamed as Pe-8 in 1942 after the death of its designer V.M. Petlyakov (he was killed during the air catastrophe 12.01.1942, making a business flight to Moscow).

PS. Some additional info about TB-7/Pe-8
a) Cabins of the heavy bomber had heating
b) Places of crewmembers: nose rotating turret (nose gunner), then cabin of navigator (equipped with glass-sided "beard" under the fuselage on early model), then "double-deck" pilot's central cabin (two pilots sat one after another by the left board; cabin of radiooperator was under pilots by the left board, cabin of flight engineer was under pilots by the right board - he could see the pilot's dashboard also; bomb bay located under the cabins of radio operator and flight engineer), the cabin of central gunner located at the end of bomb bay, two tail gunners sat behind the cabin of central gunner, the rear rotating turret (rear gunner) located at the end of the bomber, two "undercarriage" gunners sat in MG cabins located in the end of body of inner engines. The was a corridor over the bomb bay, connected nose and rear parts of the bomber, each cabin was separated from each other by bulkheads with doors.
c) Defensive armament was very powerful and consisted at first (on prototype, ANT-42) of 1x20mm (nose turret), 1x7.62mm (central gunner), 1x7.62mm (bottom hatch MG), 2x20mm (tail window guns), 2x20mm (undercarriage guns), 1x20mm (rear turret). But serial bombers had less strong defensive armament (it was decided because of excellent speed and ceiling of the bomber) - 2x7.62mm or 1x20mm (nose turret) + 1x20mm (upper turret behind pilot's cabin) + 2x12.7mm (two undercarriage cabins) + 1x20mm (rear turret).

[BIGpanzer]

I found some additional info about that TB-7, crashed in Finland in August 1941 because of damages from German AA artillery on the way back from Berlin.
Finnish civilians from Lapinjärvi buried six crewmembers, were killed during the emergency landing - 1st pilot senior lieutenant A. Panfilov, nose gunner/bombardier lieutenant V. Shatrov, navigator G. Boloboshko, flight engineer A. Gaiputdinov, assistant of flight engineer V. Tyushkin and radio operator sergeant V. Stanevsky (he died several hours later because of wounds). The name of survived crewmembers that I only know is upper turret gunner sergeant M. Krysin.
Senior lieutenant A. Panfilov was one of the first 5 Soviet civil pilots of 1930s, who flew 1.000.000 km (so called "pilots-millionaires").

[BIGpanzer]

Some interesting episode about one flight of Pe-8 behind enemy lines to drop the leaflets.
From http://allaces.ru/p/episode.php?id=12 Babel Fish translation with my corrections, if needed.

08.02.1943 - the long-range flight for drop the leaflets .
During February 1943, after the crushing defeat of the group of fieldmarshal Paulus, it was decided to make a flight for the drop of leaflets in the deep rear of enemy in order to report to the population of Germany information about the fate of captured German soldiers and Paulus, whom in Germany was considered to be killed.
08.02.43 Pe-8 from 746-th long-range air regiment, 1st pilot S.Sugak (crew: co-pilot Ugryumov, navigator Ikonnikov, assistant of navigator Belous, flight engineer Pridius, assistant of flight engineer Kutushin, radio operator Shcherbov, gunners Pisarenko, Smagliyev, Tomko, rear gunner Gurin) took course in the direction of East Prussia. Special importance was given to task; therefore aboard was located the chief of political department of 45th long-range air division Nikolayev.
Aircraft flew at the altitude of approximately 8000 m. In the region of Kaunas it was fired by anti-aircraft artillery, but, by maneuvering, crew left the dangerous zone.
South of Danzig the intensive ejection of oil from the 1st engine began. It was necessary to decrease engine speed, and Pe-8, loaded by 3,5 tons of leaflets, began to lose altitude. Crew immediately start the way back, otherwise it was hard to guarantee the return through the front line - aircraft got sufficiently far into the rear area of enemy. Need made it necessary to urgently drop leaflets - by hand, through the open door in the tail section of the aircraft. This work in such situation was associated with the great difficulties: a high altitude forced to work in the oxygen masks at a temperature outboard about -50. The airflow, which was being dug in inside the fuselage through the open door, pulled out leaflets from the hands, blew out them back into the aircraft: they were caught for the frames, the control rods. Finally the leaflets were dropped. However, misfortunes on this did not end.
The same trouble happened with the 4th engine. It was necessary to turn it off because of the high losses of oil. Bomber began to lose altitude still more rapid. The propellers created significant resistance and shaking, which made more difficult, among other things, the reading of indicators and and heading hold.
Without waiting until aircraft is torn away into the nose-spin, it was decided to leave it, about which pilots reported to the air base. But command center of air division order to follow to the airfield Migalovo. Then navigator Ikonnikov suggested to commander to follow to their airfield: to Kratovo and Migalovo the way is approximately the same. According to his calculation that was possible, if align route, passing the air corridor, which they used. For this, it was necessary to fly through the zone of the balloon barrage of Moscow.
The 1st engine was blocked at altitude of 5500 m, and to control the aircraft began more easily. After the flight through the front line (over which Pe-8 again was under strong fire of AA artillery) and of approach to the air defense zone of Moscow the transmitter of aircraft identification system was turned on.As remembered Ikonnikov - "it was visible how barrage balloons were lowered along our way". Soon, after passing above the city along its western suburbs to the region Lyublino, and after carrying out the left-hand turn, aircraft landed on the airfield Kratovo.
When airfield mechanics opened cowlings, strong crash was heard and the details of the 1st engine showered down.. It was explained that the break of connecting rod occurred in engine and crankcase was destroyed. The reason of the problem with both engines was the defect of AM-35A engine - intensive ejection of oil at the high altitude through the branch pipe of the system of venting. Aircraft and crew saved the fact that engines not from one wing were broken, otherwise to control the heavy bomber for so long a time would be impossible. The chief of the political department of 45th air division Nikolayev highly appreciated the actions of crew during this flight. First pilot Sugak was awarded with the Hero of the Soviet Union medal

[Juha Tompuri]

As I've written in my PM to you - excellent colour photos Many thanks!!!
As I've already mentioned also - this is TB-7 No. 42046 (1st pilot - senior lieutenant Panfilov). The bomber was damaged by German AA fire over Germany during the first Soviet bombing raid against Berlin, 10th August 1941 (on the way back as the bomber dropped bombs already), two engines M-40F were stopped because of oil leakage, the bomber couldn't reach Soviet territory and made an emergency landing in Finland (5 crew members were killed during that crash, others tried to reach Soviet front line on foot and AFAIK they were captured by Finns).

There are three another opinions (but the info above seems to be the most correct) - 1. German AA artillery damaged not only engines but navigation equipment also, so Panfilov lost his way to the home airfield (but crash was caused by the absence of fuel because of damage of engine fuel systems). 2. The bomber was knocked down by mistake by Soviet AA artillery of Baltic Sea and made emergency landing in Finland (mistake - that was TB-7 No. 42045 of major Tyagunin, made emergency landing in Soviet territory) 3. The bomber was knocked down by Finnish AA artillery - mistake.

I have two questions - did Germans asked Finns to give them that heavily damaged TB-7 for detailed investigation? What happened with captured by Finns crewmembers (12(11)-5 = 6-7 survived, were they killed/died in Finnish prison or returned back to USSR after the war)?.

I'm sorry, but I don't have that much info about that plane.
I've read about it, but just can't remember from where.
The info I have at the moment are Mobilisti ( http://www.kolumbus.fi/mobilisti/einde.html ) magazines 4/89 and 6/89 and book Lapinjärven historia (the History of Lapinjärvi).
What I remember I have read is that the plane got hit from friendly fire at Tallinn (and Saaremaa?) before heading to Finland.
At the Mobilisti 4/89 there is a short story of a Soviet professor from Moscow, who had contacted two Finnish brothers from the Lapinjärvi village. The Finns were from Lapinjärvi and 1941 August (when they were around 20 yrs old) they had been burying the fallen crew of the TB-7, which crashed at Lapinjärvi.
The professor was brother of one of the fallen crew member.
The professor was shown the crash site (and the graves? JT) Later the brothers were invited to Moscow.
Then...not the professor, nor the brothers nor the magazine ( politely said, the magazine staff knows much more about the vintage cars than aircrafts ) knew the type of the plane and the magazine published two photos of a model of that plane made (and donated to the brothers) by the Soviet professor, and asked help to identify it.
I include two scans from the model from that magazine at the end of my post.

Then at magazine 6/89 were published the color photos of the plane wreck and some info.
Several readers had contacted the magazine and given info, including a friend of mine.
The stuff the magazine got contained both correcet info and rumours.
The article the magazine published, AFAIK,contained both.
The story goes about this way:

"The plane (with nine other planes) started late evening 10th August from Pushkin airfield (near Leningrad) on their mission to Berlin via route: Finnish Gulf - Baltic Sea - Danzig - Berlin, planned height 8500m.
The plane carried two 1000kg bombs six 500 kg bombs and 500kg leaflets.
The plane was the last of the group to start, and after some trouble at the start the plane was left behind from the others. On their way to the target the Soviet AAA fired and hit at it over Saaremaa or Hiiumaa.
then the pilot Panfilov ordered to drop the bombs and headed to north in order to get that way home.
When already over Finland (and after escaping Finnish searchlights by diving) the right wing engine nacelle mg gunner reported of oil at the floor of his compartment. The oil was from the engines, and when it was knee deep, the inner right engine stopped. Soon after that the outer right engine jammed.
Then the co-pilot locked the controls to level flight, locked the cabin door and baled out ( he survived the bale-out and managed to flee couple of tens of km before he was caught. When he and the crew survived met at a Finnish prison, one of the crew members hit him to face with fist).
After that the plane crashed to the woods of Rutumi, Lapinjärvi.
Crew members that survived and name menntioned were:
- Senior Ltn Maksim Antipov, co-pilot
- 1st Ltn Stanislav Kizilov, ?-gunner
- Sergeant Georgi Kirillov, right wing mg-gunner"

About the monument, I mentioned, even it's not that far from where I live (ca. 60 km) I never have visited that place.
I have heard and read from it, just can't remember from where.
IIRC the Soviet/Rusian relatives of the crew have visited the monument (raised by political left wing Finns ???) several times.

Regards, Juha

[BIGpanzer]

Many thanks, dear Juha, for the excellent info in addition to mine about crewmembers of TB-7 No. 42026!!!
But I would like to note some mistakes/incorrectnesses in your post concerning that Soviet bombing raid against Berlin started 10th August, 1941 (the first combat flight of 81st long-range air division). That quite unsuccessful raid (6 TB-7 from 10 could drop bombs, only 2 successfully landed on their home airfield Pushkino) was described/investigated very well in the literature.

Juha wrote:
What I remember I have read is that the plane got hit from friendly fire at Tallinn (and Saaremaa?) before heading to Finland

Such info really exists, but this is a mistake. As I've already mentioned Soviet AA batteries of Baltic Sea Navy achieved a direct hit to another TB-7 on its return way (No. 42045 of squadron commander captain A. Tyagunin), just before this No. 42045 was attacked twice by Soviet fighters (near cape Luzhskaya Guba). Friendly AA fire caused damage of left wing and engine fire, Tyagunin ordered to survived crewmembers to bail out (5 were killed) and made emergency landing in Soviet territory (Estonia). The reason of such incident was the fact that Soviet AA gunners and fighter pilots was not informed about the secret raid and didn't know such bomber as TB-7 even (they thought that was German FW200 Condor).

Juha wrote:
The plane (with nine other planes) started late evening 10th August from Pushkin airfield (near Leningrad) on their mission to Berlin via route: Finnish Gulf - Baltic Sea - Danzig - Berlin, planned height 8500m.
The plane carried two 1000kg bombs six 500 kg bombs and 500kg leaflets

Almost 100% correct. But that airfield had the name Pushkino, 12 TB-7 and 28 Yer-2 landed in Pushkino in the morning, 10th August 1941 (so that was completelly unknown airfield for those bomber pilots, the operation was planned in a great hurry), but only 10 TB-7 and 16 Yer-2 were chosen to participate in the raid. Each TB-7 carried not 5 t of bombs (that was beyond maximal load of TB-7 with diesel engines M-40F) but 4 t of bombs (including 2 t as external load - those were not only high-explosive but also fire bombs of different size). The alternative target for bombers was Königsberg.

Juha wrote:
The plane was the last of the group to start, and after some trouble at the start the plane was left behind from the others

Correct, TB-7 No. 42026 indeed started the raid as the last one. But the bomber didn't have any troubles at the start. Catastrophe was happened with TB-7 of major Egorov (both right engines stopped unexpectedly during take-off, bomber crashed, 6 crewmembers were killed).

Juha wrote:
On their way to the target the Soviet AAA fired and hit at it over Saaremaa or Hiiumaa

See above, that was happened with TB-7 No. 42045 on the way back after bombing Berlin.

Juha wrote:
then the pilot Panfilov ordered to drop the bombs and headed to north in order to get that way home.
When already over Finland (and after escaping Finnish searchlights by diving) the right wing engine nacelle mg gunner reported of oil at the floor of his compartment. The oil was from the engines, and when it was knee deep, the inner right engine stopped. Soon after that the outer right engine jammed

Russian sources mention "engine nacelle MG gunners" as "undercarriage gunners".
TB-7 of Panfilov dropped bombs over Germany after strong enemy AA fire occured and the bomber was seriously damaged. Panfilov headed to home airfield but two right diesels M-40F stopped over Finland because of oil leakage (TB-7 crossed the 1st AA Finnish district, avoiding any additional damages).

Juha wrote:
Then the co-pilot locked the controls to level flight, locked the cabin door and baled out ( he survived the bale-out and managed to flee couple of tens of km before he was caught. When he and the crew survived met at a Finnish prison, one of the crew members hit him to face with fist). After that the plane crashed to the woods of Rutumi, Lapinjärvi

I didn't know this. Such info corresponds very well with the fact that all crewmembers located in the nose part of the bomber were killed during the emergency landing/crash, but there was no 2nd pilot among their bodies, only gunners survived (except nose gunner, of course). But I should note that 1st pilot (Panfilov) as well as flight engineer could unlock the controls (including autopilot), there was a door behind the pilot's cabin indeed (for connection with middle/tail sections of the bomber via corridor over bomb bay, 2nd pilot set close to that door), both pilots of Pe-8 set one after another (1st pilot set in front) each having sliding cockpit canopy - http://www.allaces.ru/sssr/foto/sugak1.jpg

Juha wrote:
Crew members that survived and name menntioned were:
- Senior Ltn Maksim Antipov, co-pilot
- 1st Ltn Stanislav Kizilov, ?-gunner
- Sergeant Georgi Kirillov, right wing mg-gunner"

Ltn Kizilov could be the rear turret (20mm gun) gunner (but lieutenant was a high rank for the gunner, usually he was a sergeant). As I've already mentioned that upper turret gunner sergeant M. Krysin also survived (and, probably, he was not captured by Finns but reached Soviet positions). We don't know the name of the left "undercarriage" gunner only and what happened with him.

Regards, BP

[Juha Tompuri]

Hi BP

The info at my post AFAIK is partly from POW interrogation reports.

But the bomber didn't have any troubles at the start.

The trouble the article mentions were that at first the take-off was halted, because an unknown twin engined plane, not belonging to the group, was let to start before the TB-7 in question.
The article also mentions that another landing gear was damaged during the take-off.
I forgot to mention that according to the article, the first plane of the group took off at 2200 hours.

I include two scans from the model from that magazine at the end of my post.

Sorry for the missing photos.
Here they are:

Regards, Juha

[BIGpanzer]

Juha wrote:
The trouble the article mentions were that at first the take-off was halted, because an unknown twin engined plane, not belonging to the group, was let to start before the TB-7 in question. The article also mentions that another landing gear was damaged during the take-off

Your article mixed the info up. The take-off of all TB-7s was halted for some period of time because one Yer-2 (pilot Molodchij) damaged its landing gear at the end of the take-off by airfield's draining (overweighted by bombs and fuel Yer-2 had too long takeoff run). TB-7 No. 42046 (pilot major Egorov) crashed soon after take-off as two right engines of his bomber stopped suddenly. Commander of Air Forces general Zhigarev halted the operation so only 7 TB-7 and 3 Yer-2 began the raid to Berlin.

As for the 2nd pilot of TB-7 No. 42026 senior lieutenant M. Antipov who bailed out and betrayed his crewmembers in fact - he was awarded with the Red Banner order for the participation in Winter war, by the way.

Interesting model of TB-7, very rough, of course. But it is possible to identify four engined heavy bomber at least
Here is the excellent model of Pe-8 with AM-35A engines (No. 42028, 25th Guard long-range bomber regiment, summer of 1942) from http://modelism.airforce.ru/reviews/ru/pe-8/index.htm

[BIGpanzer]

Just a few additional notes:

Juha wrote: The plane (with nine other planes) started late evening 10th August from Pushkin airfield (near Leningrad) on their mission to Berlin via route: Finnish Gulf - Baltic Sea - Danzig - Berlin, planned height 8500m

Exact description of route over Germany: island Rügen - confluence of rivers Varta and Order - Berlin. Planned altitude was 6500 m.

Juha wrote:
I forgot to mention that according to the article, the first plane of the group took off at 2200 hours

The first plane took off at 20.30

Crewmembers of TB-7 No. 42036 of divisional commander Vodopianov before raid to Berlin, 10th August 1941. As I've already written the fuel tanks of that TB-7 were damaged by AA fire over Germany (Königsberg) during the way back and the bomber made emergency landing in Estonia (Jyhvi, already occupied by Germans). Only 2nd pilot E. Pusep (Estonian by nationality) negotiated with native population and that saved all crewmembers from capture (in two days they reached Soviet positions, but then returned back to explode their abandoned bomber).
http://www.aviagrad.ru/pics/news/pusep3.jpg

[BIGpanzer]

As I've already mentioned heavy bombers TB-7 bombed not only Berlin but also Danzig, Königsberg, Marienburg, Insburg, Allenstein in 1941. For example, single TB-7 (No. 42025, 1st pilot - E. Pusep) could destroy Danzig power plant 7.11.1941. Berlin, Königsberg and Danzig were bombed in 1942 also - for example, 746th long-range bomber regiment (Pe-8) participated in the raid against Danzig and Königsberg 19.08.1942 under strong AA fire (targets - warships, naval base and shipyards, each bomber carried 2xFAB-1000+1xFAB-2000; I found a mention that Danzig's shipyard was heavily damaged and close explosion of one FAB-2000 destroyed topside of German warship). 21.08.1942 Pe-8s ssuccessfully attacked Warsaw west railroad station, military factories and barracks of SS troops nearby (quite many buildings were destroyed), two 500-kg bombs completely destroyed 7-storey hotel near station (more than 100 German high-rank officers were killed there) - memoires of German soldiers supported this info. Soon (02.09.1942) Pe-8 of A.Dodonov dropped FAB-500 directly at the center of Warsaw Gebietskommissariat where the presence of Hitler was expected.
29.04.1943 the first super-heavy FAB-5000 was dropped from Pe-8 on Königsberg.

It should be noted that heavy bombers TB-7/Pe-8 were used quite often not as long-range strategical bombers but also as tactical bombers (especially in 1941-1942). Heavy bombers from 432nd long-range air regiment (since 03.12.1941 - 746th long-range air regiment, 05.1942 the another regiment (890th) was organized in addition to 746th; since 18.09.1943 - 25th Guard regiment of ADD) bombed railway stations and communications during the Battle for Moscow in autumn 1941 (07.09.1941-29.10.1941: bombed Orsha, Pskov, Staraya Russa, Novgorod, Roslavl, Smolensk), they bombed German tank/mechanized units and Volga bridges during the day time near Kalinin in autumn 1941.
In 1942 (27.01.1942-05.05.1942) heavy bombers bombed railway stations of Smolensk, Vitebsk, Orsha, Vyazma, Minsk, Polotsk, Bryansk; German HQ and units in Staraya Russa, Spass-Demyansk, Nevel. Also Pe-8 were used for transportation of reconnaissance groups to the Germans deep rear. In July 1942 Pe-8s bombed large railway stations of Kursk, Lvov, Orel, Bryansk; airfields of Kharkov, Belgorod, Smolensk, Seshcha, Borovskoe, Kursk; German HQs in Kharkov, Shchigry, Poltava. 746th regiment bombed Rzhev, Vyazma, Berlin, Warsaw, Königsberg; attacked airfields in Dugino, Smolensk, Borovskoe, Shatalovo, Seshcha in August 1942 (136 flights were made, 366 t of bombs dropped, 1 Pe-8 was lost). In September 1942 Pe-8 were used at Stalingrad as night tactical bombers, during the Battle of Kursk (summer 1943) Pe-8 attacked railroad stations, infantry and tank units, airfields; 65 flights were made against Orel railway station. Since July 1943 - Pe-8s from 746th regiment bombed German positions of heavy artillery near Leningrad.

[BIGpanzer]

Here is the list of Soviet air units which used heavy bombers TB-7 (Pe-8) during WWII.

1. 2nd squadron of 14th air regiment of heavy bombers from 18th air division (2nd squadron based on airfield Borispol, 30 km from Kiev) - commander of 14th air regiment of heavy bombers was Glagolev. 1st and 3rd squadrons of the regiment were equipped with TB-3.
2nd squadron received the first six TB-7 in May 1940, 27 TB-7 were delivered till June 1941 (according to the People's Comissariat of Defense - only 9 TB-7 were delivered and 4 of them were broken - this seems to be the more correct info; 2nd squadron had 8 TB-7 in June 1941 ). Airfield Borispol was attacked by German bombers soon after the war began, two TB-7 was destroyed and several were damaged, the remainder were evacuated rearward.
06.07.-09.08.1941 the new regiment (412th air regiment of heavy bombers) was organized in Kazan (where TB-7 were produced) on the basis of 2nd squadron of 14th air regiment according to the order of Stalin.

2. 412th air regiment of heavy bombers (commander - colonel V.I. Lebedev, 07.1941-05.1942) was a regiment of special purpose of a new 81st lomg-range air division (since 30.11.1941 - 3rd long-range air division).
08.1941 - renamed as 432nd air regiment of heavy bombers (airfield Kovrov, Vladimir region, 250 km from Moscow). 30.09.1941 had 14 (8 of them were in good repair only) TB-7.
03.12.1941 - renamed as 746th long-range air regiment, all 3 squadrons were equipped with TB-7 (airfield Ivanovo till 20.04.1942, airfield Kratovo of Flight Research Institute till 30.05.1944 - 35 km from Moscow). 03.1942 regiment had 11 Pe-8 (8 of them were in good repair).
In May 1942 the additional regiment (890th long-range air regiment) was organized on the basis of 746th regiment, both were a part of 45th long-range air division - 01.07.1943 both regiments had 18 Pe-8 (11 of them were in good repair).
Commander of 746th regiment became major (later lieutenant colonel) N.D. Egorov (05.1942-03.1943).
18.08.1942 746th regiment became the separate regiment under the direct command of ADD (long-range aviation) commander. Commander since 03.1943 - lieutenant colonel V.A. Abramov.
18.09.1943 - renamed as 25th Guard long-range air regiment, since 27.05.1944 - 25th Guard Orlov long-range air-regiment. Since June 1944 (March-April 1945 mainly) - crewmembers of the regiment began to use several repaired B-24D and B-17 bombers in addition to Pe-8 (since 07.1944 - airfield Balabasovo, Vitebsk region; in summer 1945 - Orsha airfield).
26.12.1944 - renamed as 25th Guard bomber air regiment, 11 members of the regiment were awarded with Hero of USSR rank during WWII.

3. 890th Bryansk long-range air regiment (commander - lieutenant colonel E.K. Pusep, 10.1942-05.1946). The regiment was formed in May 1942 (separated from 746th regiment), both were a part of 45th long-range air division (01.1945 the division had 20 Pe-8, in summer 1945 - 30 Pe-8). The regiment was equipped with Pe-8 (since spring 1944 - also with B-25 of different modifications). Both regiments of 45th division were reequipped with Tu-4 (Soviet copy of B-29) in 1946, remainder Pe-8 were used as flying laboratories for new engine/missile tests and as transport aircraft/flying tankers in Polar aviation till the middle of 1950s.

4. 362nd long-range air regiment (commander - lieutenant colonel N.N. Ilyukhin) was formed in the beginning of 1944 from 4 Pe-8 from 25th Guard regiment (see 2.) and 890th regiment (see 3), all regiments belonged to 45th long-range air division. The regiment was reequipped with B-25 bombers during the spring 1944, all four Pe-8 were given back to 25th and 890th regiments.

PS. Interesting photos:
http://avia.lib.ru/bibl/1013/016.jpg
1st - deputy commander of 45th division colonel G. Schetchikov, commander of 45th division colonel V. Lebedev and commander of 890th regiment lieutenant colonel E. Pusep.
2nd - analysis of bombing efficiency with the help of air photos
3rd - Soviet Pe-8 pilots during the visit of De Havilland Aircraft Factory.
4th - Pe-8 of Pusep on airfield Bolding Field (Washington)

PS2. I found the official report about the tests of FAB-5000 - the explosion caused the formation of crater 18-24 m in diameter and 6-9 m deep, zone of full destruction was 135-150 m.

PS3. I found additional info about the passenger variant of Pe-8 (Pe-8 ON, 2 were built + 2 were planned to built), we've discussed shortly above. Pe-8 ON was equipped with 12 comfortable sleeperette in central cabin with windows, 3 sofas in sleeping-cabin, toilet room, bar-room, small coatroom and luggage compartment under sleeping-cabin. All cabins had soundproofing, individual venting, air heating (special water radiators heated floor air by warm from engines), oxygen equipment for each place (16 l per men for 8 h of flight at 6000-8000 m), central and individual lighting. New floor was developed to allow enter in full height. Both Pe-8 ON were equipped with pneumatic ice-protection "Goodrich" system for wings and fins (also liquid ice-protection systems for pilot's windows and propellers as serial bombers had) because diesels ACh-30B didn't allow to use usual heating ice-protection for wings/fins. Pe-8 ON had additional oil tanks, improved fuel and cooling systems of engines; it could continue flight on each two engines from four.
Specifications: maximal flying weight 35.5 t, 4x1500 hp ACh-30B diesels, 14 passengers + 9 men crew, cruise speed 390 km/h, 8200 m altitude, 6000 km range, 1x20mm + 3x12.7mm defensive armament.

[Mark V]

Also I have one note - it is incorrect to name that heavy bomber as Pe-8, the correct name for 1941 was TB-7 (Tyazhely Bombardirovshchik - 7, Heavy Bomber - 7). TB-7 was renamed as Pe-8 in 1942 after the death of its designer V.M. Petlyakov (he was killed during the air catastrophe 12.01.1942, making a business flight to Moscow).

Hi,

Seriously. I don't think you find here many volunteers to vary the designation between TB-7 and Pe-8, about the same ac - depending what year of WW2 is talked about.

You apparently do vary the designation and thats all right - for you.

Thanks for information about Pe-8 units.

Happy Christmas.


Mark V