I don't know if this is exactly the place to make these questions but here I go:
I’ve been reading some data regarding the Operation “Leopard”, the german invasion of the Island of Leros, and I have several questions to make.
1) What type of seaplanes did the germans use?
2) What type of gliders did the Brandenburgers use? (if they did)
3) Was the bombing of Leros made only by Stukas?
4) Which unit did the bombers belong to?
5) What specific unit of the Brandenburgers were used? I’m a little confused here because I read that a battalion of brandenburgers saw combat at Leros but I also read of a Company of brandenburg paras. Who was in command of this (or these) unit/s?
6) A Kustenjäger Abteilung saw action in Leros. Could anybody give me more detailed info about this unit? Who was in command of this abteilung? What kind of landing craft did they use?
7) Is there any detailed information regarding the german, italian and british forces (order of battle maybe) that fought in the island?
8- Which unit did the Junkers Ju-52s used to transport the fallschirmjägers belong to? How many were used?
Sorry for so many questions. The worst is that I’m sure I have more to do but that will be all for now.
Any help is much appreciated.
Best,
FANGIO
Invasion of Leros - questions
Fangio
You should get yourself this book, I should think a lot of your questions (probably not all though) will be answered in it:
http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=5622
All the best
Andreas
You should get yourself this book, I should think a lot of your questions (probably not all though) will be answered in it:
http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=5622
All the best
Andreas
Great information on the battle
First Part : http://www.battlefront.co.nz/Article.asp?ArticleID=411
Second Part : http://www.battlefront.co.nz/Article.asp?ArticleID=420
First Part : http://www.battlefront.co.nz/Article.asp?ArticleID=411
Second Part : http://www.battlefront.co.nz/Article.asp?ArticleID=420
Hello,
Here is another link about the battle:
http://www.leros.org/lerostouristhttp/t ... leros.html
Some specific answeres to your questions from this link:
5) "the parachutists achieved to find themselves in the main street, that links Partheni with Saint Marina and cut the island in two. The unsuccessful landing of the II/16th battalion and again the III/440th forced the administration of German Greeks to place in direct readiness the 15 company of parachutists of the Brandenburg for cast at Lero and the III/1th battalion of Brandenburg."
6) and 7):
"The attack had the code name "Enterprise Taifun" and it included 4 teams of battle, that each one brought the name of its leader' and had given points of disembark. The team Von Saldern, that included the 11/16 battalion of grenadiers of the 22th constitution of Luftwaffe was targeted to land at the gulf of Kryfo. Team Schadlich, that
included the 1 company Kustenjager disembarked at Pitiki. Team Doerr, included forces of the 440th
constitution of grenadiers that disembarked in the gulf of Vagia's. Team Aschoff disembarked forces of the 440th constitution of grenadiers in southern utmost of the Gulf of Goyrna. For the transport of these forces, a fleet of 5 passenger ships of the navy capable of transporting 150/170 men each one, 13 landing crafts able to carry 70 men, 5 barges Zimbel for transport of materials and 9 speedboats of 30 men each."
<edit>Actually, PPoS's links appear much more informative and better organized. I'd recommend his first!
</edit>
Here is another link about the battle:
http://www.leros.org/lerostouristhttp/t ... leros.html
Some specific answeres to your questions from this link:
5) "the parachutists achieved to find themselves in the main street, that links Partheni with Saint Marina and cut the island in two. The unsuccessful landing of the II/16th battalion and again the III/440th forced the administration of German Greeks to place in direct readiness the 15 company of parachutists of the Brandenburg for cast at Lero and the III/1th battalion of Brandenburg."
6) and 7):
"The attack had the code name "Enterprise Taifun" and it included 4 teams of battle, that each one brought the name of its leader' and had given points of disembark. The team Von Saldern, that included the 11/16 battalion of grenadiers of the 22th constitution of Luftwaffe was targeted to land at the gulf of Kryfo. Team Schadlich, that
included the 1 company Kustenjager disembarked at Pitiki. Team Doerr, included forces of the 440th
constitution of grenadiers that disembarked in the gulf of Vagia's. Team Aschoff disembarked forces of the 440th constitution of grenadiers in southern utmost of the Gulf of Goyrna. For the transport of these forces, a fleet of 5 passenger ships of the navy capable of transporting 150/170 men each one, 13 landing crafts able to carry 70 men, 5 barges Zimbel for transport of materials and 9 speedboats of 30 men each."
<edit>Actually, PPoS's links appear much more informative and better organized. I'd recommend his first!
</edit>The "The Luftwaffe Data Book," (Dr. Alfred Price, published 1997 by Greenhill Books) states on page 189 that the DFS 230 was the only glider type used by the Luftwaffe during combat operations. Based upon that statement I would assume the Brandenburgers used that type as well, unless something comes along to suggest differently. I can find no mention in this book of the unit of Do-217's that engaged in anti-shipping operations. Actually, there is no evidence of any Kampfgruppen in this theatre during May of 1943 or May of 1944(when the census of units were taken) This book does list Seetransportstaffel 1 & 3 with Ju-52 seaplanes in this area of ops by May of 1944. However, this source does not indicate specific operations that these units participated in, only that they were on the census of aircraft assigned to the general geographic area. And as none of that data is directly from November of 1943, take all of it with a grain of salt.
Another link: http://www.nzetc.org/tm/scholarly/tei-W ... 12280.html
Mike: thanks a lot for taking your time to give me this information, very appreciated.
JonS: great link, so there were troops from New Zealand too fighting in Leros, I'll take a closer look to this site, many thanks.
Maybe the Stukas used in Leros belonged to the StG-3, I've read in a book I have (in spanish) that the I./StG-3 and the II./StG-3 (Junkers Ju-87D-3) were part of the Luftwaffenkommando Süd-Ost, covering the zone we are talking about, could this be? or am I wrong?
Any suggestions welcome.
Best,
FANGIO
JonS: great link, so there were troops from New Zealand too fighting in Leros, I'll take a closer look to this site, many thanks.
Maybe the Stukas used in Leros belonged to the StG-3, I've read in a book I have (in spanish) that the I./StG-3 and the II./StG-3 (Junkers Ju-87D-3) were part of the Luftwaffenkommando Süd-Ost, covering the zone we are talking about, could this be? or am I wrong?
Any suggestions welcome.
Best,
FANGIO
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Ron Klages
- In memoriam
- Posts: 299
- Joined: 20 Oct 2002, 22:34
- Location: Lynnwood, Washington
The Battle for Leros
Fangio,
There is a publication titled AFTER THE BATTLE which is published monthly. Issue Number 90 has a 34 page article on the Leros battle with 140 black and white photos and 1 color photo plus 4 maps. These magazines are always available at RZM Imports in the US and can be ordered directly from their web site which I have listed below. The article covers the entire actions on the Dodecanese Islands with most of the article on Leros.
The Luftwaffe units focused on the Dodecanese Islands were the following:
I. and II./LG 1 with Ju 88s and Ju 188s
III./LG 1 with He 111s
II./KG 51 with Ju 88s
I. and II. StG 3 with Ju 87s
13./StG 151 with Ju 87s12./KG 100 with Do 217s with glider bombs used aganist Allied shipping
The Luftwaffee flew the following sorties by date:
12 November= 122 bomber sorties and 48 dive bomber sorties
13 November= a total of 166 sorties
14 November= more than 166 sorties
15 November=261 sorties
No mention of gliders being used. Landings were accomplished by Ju 52s dropping paratroopers and various boat types llanding troops.
recommend the magazine.
best regards,
Ron Klages
http://www.rzm.com/main/main.cfm
There is a publication titled AFTER THE BATTLE which is published monthly. Issue Number 90 has a 34 page article on the Leros battle with 140 black and white photos and 1 color photo plus 4 maps. These magazines are always available at RZM Imports in the US and can be ordered directly from their web site which I have listed below. The article covers the entire actions on the Dodecanese Islands with most of the article on Leros.
The Luftwaffe units focused on the Dodecanese Islands were the following:
I. and II./LG 1 with Ju 88s and Ju 188s
III./LG 1 with He 111s
II./KG 51 with Ju 88s
I. and II. StG 3 with Ju 87s
13./StG 151 with Ju 87s12./KG 100 with Do 217s with glider bombs used aganist Allied shipping
The Luftwaffee flew the following sorties by date:
12 November= 122 bomber sorties and 48 dive bomber sorties
13 November= a total of 166 sorties
14 November= more than 166 sorties
15 November=261 sorties
No mention of gliders being used. Landings were accomplished by Ju 52s dropping paratroopers and various boat types llanding troops.
recommend the magazine.
best regards,
Ron Klages
http://www.rzm.com/main/main.cfm
Hi Ron!
Great!!! Thank you very much for the info. It confirms then that the StG-3 was the unit of Stukas used on Leros.
That magazine looks very interesting, I'll try to buy it, thanks for the link.
I can see though that no seaplanes are mentioned on the list. Take a look at this photo of an old encyclopedia I have of WWII were you can see on the top some seaplanes (at least three) and if I'm not wrong a Junkers Ju-52. I also posted a close up for a better look. The encyclopedia doesn't give any kind of info of the Luftwaffe units, it only says that the Stukas bombed Leros and nothing else.
What do you think? (anybody) What type of seaplanes are those? And is that a Ju-52 or a bigger type of seaplane?
Source of pics: "La Segunda Guerra Mundial" - Editorial SARPE - Vol. 4, page 1262
Great!!! Thank you very much for the info. It confirms then that the StG-3 was the unit of Stukas used on Leros.
That magazine looks very interesting, I'll try to buy it, thanks for the link.
I can see though that no seaplanes are mentioned on the list. Take a look at this photo of an old encyclopedia I have of WWII were you can see on the top some seaplanes (at least three) and if I'm not wrong a Junkers Ju-52. I also posted a close up for a better look. The encyclopedia doesn't give any kind of info of the Luftwaffe units, it only says that the Stukas bombed Leros and nothing else.
What do you think? (anybody) What type of seaplanes are those? And is that a Ju-52 or a bigger type of seaplane?
Source of pics: "La Segunda Guerra Mundial" - Editorial SARPE - Vol. 4, page 1262
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Ron Klages
- In memoriam
- Posts: 299
- Joined: 20 Oct 2002, 22:34
- Location: Lynnwood, Washington
Ar 196
Fangio,
Did some more investigating and there was one unit with float planes stationed on Leros and that was 3./SAGr. 126 with Ar 196 A-3 float planes.
In Athens there was a Ju 52 float plane unit stationed and they were Seetransport Staffel 1.
It is hard to tell from the photo the type of float plane but I would say they were Ar 196s since there does not appear to be a third motor on the nose as one would find with the Ju 52/3m-G5e or the G9e.
best regards,
Ron Klages
Did some more investigating and there was one unit with float planes stationed on Leros and that was 3./SAGr. 126 with Ar 196 A-3 float planes.
In Athens there was a Ju 52 float plane unit stationed and they were Seetransport Staffel 1.
It is hard to tell from the photo the type of float plane but I would say they were Ar 196s since there does not appear to be a third motor on the nose as one would find with the Ju 52/3m-G5e or the G9e.
best regards,
Ron Klages
Re: Ar 196
Not sure I understand you correctly, but the Ar 196 had a single motor on the nose.Ron Klages wrote:It is hard to tell from the photo the type of float plane but I would say they were Ar 196s since there does not appear to be a third motor on the nose as one would find with the Ju 52/3m-G5e or the G9e.
All the best
Andreas
-
Ron Klages
- In memoriam
- Posts: 299
- Joined: 20 Oct 2002, 22:34
- Location: Lynnwood, Washington
OOPS
Andreas,
I was up too late last night. What I meant to say was that there appeared to be no engines on the wing but just on the nose. The Ju 52 had three motors as you pointed out--one on each wing and on the nose of the fuselage.
I believe these photos are Ar 196s and not Ju 52s.
Sorry for the error.
best regards,
Ron Klages
I was up too late last night. What I meant to say was that there appeared to be no engines on the wing but just on the nose. The Ju 52 had three motors as you pointed out--one on each wing and on the nose of the fuselage.
I believe these photos are Ar 196s and not Ju 52s.
Sorry for the error.
best regards,
Ron Klages
Maybe identification of the hydroplanes in the picture is something for the airplane quiz hustlers? To me the airplanes look like multi-engine types - definitely larger than Ar 196s. The airplane furthest to the right looks a little different than the centre one, but it could be the angle relative to the photographer that deceives me.
I can just barely make out what looks to be the substructure of a third hydroplane to the left. Might that be an Italian CANT Z 511 hydroplane? Is there any possibility that the aircraft could be Italian?
I can just barely make out what looks to be the substructure of a third hydroplane to the left. Might that be an Italian CANT Z 511 hydroplane? Is there any possibility that the aircraft could be Italian?
Hi Ron!Ron Klages wrote:Fangio,
Did some more investigating and there was one unit with float planes stationed on Leros and that was 3./SAGr. 126 with Ar 196 A-3 float planes.
In Athens there was a Ju 52 float plane unit stationed and they were Seetransport Staffel 1.
It is hard to tell from the photo the type of float plane but I would say they were Ar 196s since there does not appear to be a third motor on the nose as one would find with the Ju 52/3m-G5e or the G9e.
best regards,
Ron Klages
Thanks once again for all your help. I think Jon may be right regarding the CANT Z 511 long range hydroplane. That would be the bigger one, but the small ones, hmmm, are you 100% sure they are Ar-196s? I may be very wrong but could they be Heinkel He-115s? Weren't these hydroplanes also used to transport men?
Best,
FANGIO