7 Panzer Division at Senno - 6-8th July 1941

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Bob_Mackenzie
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7 Panzer Division at Senno - 6-8th July 1941

#1

Post by Bob_Mackenzie » 17 Aug 2007, 00:25

Gents

Anyone have an account of the fighting around Senno? I have the Initial period of War on the Eastern Front, and I have some translations of Russian pages on the battles but I have no good idea were the majority of the 7PD's sub units were deployed. What I could really do with is a good map :)

Cheers

Bob

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AMVAS
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Re: 7 Panzer Division at Senno - 6-8th July 1941

#2

Post by AMVAS » 17 Aug 2007, 08:11

Bob_Mackenzie wrote:Gents

Anyone have an account of the fighting around Senno? I have the Initial period of War on the Eastern Front, and I have some translations of Russian pages on the battles but I have no good idea were the majority of the 7PD's sub units were deployed. What I could really do with is a good map :)

Cheers

Bob
If I'm correct in Senno-Lepel area the Soviet 7th and 5th Mechanised corps/20th Army met heavy antitank defense of German infantry units and lost majority of their power in attacks against that positions...

Regards
Alex

P.S. Maybe not only German infantry took part in that fights... :D
check map on my site
http://www.rkkaww2.armchairgeneral.com/ ... l11_41.jpg


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#3

Post by Bob_Mackenzie » 17 Aug 2007, 12:52

Dear Alex

Glantz' boook definately records actions of the 7PD in the Senno area. Russian accounts talk of armoured counter attacks

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Bob

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#4

Post by AMVAS » 17 Aug 2007, 13:05

Bob_Mackenzie wrote:Dear Alex

Glantz' boook definately records actions of the 7PD in the Senno area. Russian accounts talk of armoured counter attacks

Cheers

Bob
Ok then :D

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#5

Post by Andreas » 17 Aug 2007, 14:33

12. PD was also involved at Senno, IIRC according to its divisional history.

All the best

Andreas

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Re: 7 Panzer Division at Senno - 6-8th July 1941

#6

Post by GaryD » 17 Aug 2007, 20:37

Bob_Mackenzie wrote:Gents

Anyone have an account of the fighting around Senno? I have the Initial period of War on the Eastern Front, and I have some translations of Russian pages on the battles but I have no good idea were the majority of the 7PD's sub units were deployed. What I could really do with is a good map :)

Cheers

Bob
If it's a map of the area in 1941 you're looking for, and you have Google Earth, try this:
http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/showflat.php ... e/0#976618

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#7

Post by GaryD » 17 Aug 2007, 22:51

Andreas wrote:12. PD was also involved at Senno, IIRC according to its divisional history.

All the best

Andreas
Did 12 PzD belong to 39 Pz Corps at that time? 39th Panzer Corps belonged to 3rd Panzer Group and, as far as I can tell, consisted of 7 PzD, 20 PzD, and 20 mot. ID. While 12 PzD and 20 mot. ID encircled Minsk on July 2nd, 20 PzD and 7 PzD exploited to the north-east in the direction of Lepel, 20 PzD on the left and 7 PzD on the right. This brought 7 PzD facing the Soviet counterattack on 6-8 July by the 5th (13 and 17 TDs, 109 MRD) and 7th (14 and 18 TDs) Mechanized Corps. 7 Mech Corps (450 tanks) attacked on the right, with 14 TD attacking south of the W. Dvina river towards Baranovichi and the 18th TD at Senno. 5 Mech Corps (880 tanks) attacked southwest of Senno. By 6 July part of 7 PzD was fighting around Senno while other parts of it were fighting to the north around Baranovichi, supported by 20 mot. ID. By 9 July the Soviet offensive had been defeated and 20 PzD and 20 mot. ID had taken Vitebsk (about 30 kilometers to the west of the northern part of the battlefield. It seems that 7 PzD was still between Senno and Baranovichi, while 12 PzD was coming up on the corps' right flank to the west of Senno. Maybe that's when it did some fighting there.

Soviet losses were severe. 5 Mech. Corps lost around 400 tanks, with over 100 of those remaining being out of service, and 7 Mech. Corps lost most of its tanks. Soviet after-action reports stated that half of the tank losses were to enemy air attacks 8O.

As far as locations of subunits of the 7 PzD, the book The Initial Period of the War on the Eastern Front is probably as good as you'll get.

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#8

Post by Bob_Mackenzie » 18 Aug 2007, 00:47

Thanks Garry

I have a Russian situation map that shos the 18PD on the right of 7PD

Cheers

Bob

Image

Sorry can't recall which website its from :(

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#9

Post by AMVAS » 18 Aug 2007, 05:29

check alsù this one
Image

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#10

Post by GaryD » 18 Aug 2007, 07:15

Bob_Mackenzie wrote:Thanks Garry

I have a Russian situation map that shos the 18PD on the right of 7PD

Cheers

Bob

Sorry can't recall which website its from :(
That's a terrible map. I think the 18 td on it refers to the 18 PzD, which along with the 17 PzD and 29 mot. ID, made up the 47 Pz Corps and operated on the 39th Pz Corps' right. None of the Soviet TDs are represented on that map. Senno was right next to the corps border between the two Pz Corps, so it looks like 7 PzD bore the brunt of 7 Mech. Corps's attack at Senno and north, and 47 Pz Corps received 5 Mech Corps' attack to the SW of Senno. Both 7 PzD and 17 PzD seem to have been next to each other around Senno.

The Soviet attack does not seem to have been excessively damaging for the Germans. By 12 July 17 PzD had 72 tanks operational, and 18 PzD had 90 tanks operational (not counting flame tanks or command tanks). For 47 Pz Corps overall total losses were:

killed-wounded-missing-sick
July 6: 11-47-3-3
July 7: 20-55-1-13
July 8: 48-160-142-17
July 9: 23-102-0-4

As Amvas's map shows, the 20 PzD and 20 mot. ID both operated north of the W. Dvina river, and therefore were not involved in the Soviet attack.
Last edited by GaryD on 18 Aug 2007, 13:07, edited 2 times in total.

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#11

Post by AMVAS » 18 Aug 2007, 08:35

Bob, take into account soviet maps can be inexact towards positioning of German troops (like German ones are inexact for the Soviet ones :roll: )

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#12

Post by GaryD » 01 Sep 2007, 17:37

Some more details about the Germans:

According to 3rd Panzer Group daily situation maps, on July 7th Senno was occupied by the 7th Panzer division motorcycle battalion(+) and reinforced later in the day by a KG. Most of the rest of the division was about 30 kilometers to the north and the space between was coverer by 7th Recon. Battalion.

On July 6th 7th Panzer Division had the following KGs:

KG Schutzen Brigade 7
Pz. Rgt. 25 (minus III.) with Pz.Fl. 101
I./S.R. 6
S.R. 7 (minus II.)
A.R. 78 (minus 2. battery and 2. battalion)
Pz. Jg. 42 (minus one platoon from 3.)
1./Nb. 51
2 platoons from 1./Pz.Jg. 8 (8,8)
3./Fla. 59

KG Thomale
III./Pz.Rgt. 25
5./A.R. 78
Pz. A.A. 37
6./S.R.6

Kradsch. Btl. 7
Kradsch. 7
2./A.R. 78
1 platoon from 3./Pz.Pi. 58
1 platoon from 2./Flak 84

KG von Unger
II./S.R. 6
II./S.R. 7
I./Nbl. 51
II./A.R. 78
4./Flak 84
KG von Unger seems to have been behind KG S.B. 7

(There were some small detachments to other divisions, so all of the batteries and battalions are not included in the above)

On July 8th KG von Unger had been consolidated into KG S.B. 7.

If you read about the battle starting on page 382 in The Initial Period of War on the Eastern Front 22 June - August 1941, it's apparent that the units in question are KG Thomale and the motorcycle battalion group.

For the next couple of days, the Soviet 7th Mechanized Corps attacked 7th Panzer Division between Senno and the Northern Dvina and 17th and 12th Panzer divisions dealt with the 5th Mechanized Corps's attack southwest of Senno. 7th PzD, the right flank of 39th Panzer Corps, fought a defensive action while the 39th's schwerpunkt, 20th Panzer Division supported by 20th Infantry Division (mot.), out-flanked the Soviets to the north and seized Vitebsk on July 9th.

If I could figure out how to post an image, I'd show you the relevant situation maps..... :(

7th Pz.D.'s losses were:
6 July: 10 dead, 69 wounded, 1 missing
7 July: 48 dead, 152 wounded, 2 missing
8 July: 35 dead, 69 wounded, 4 missing
9 July: 15 dead, 43 wounded, 2 missing

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#13

Post by Andreas » 08 Sep 2007, 22:17

I checked the 12. PD history now, and it attacked afterwards, further to the north-east.

All the best

Andreas

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#14

Post by Bob_Mackenzie » 01 Nov 2007, 21:01

Thank you gentleman

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#15

Post by Qvist » 11 Nov 2007, 23:47

7.PzD losses 1-10 July; 99 KIA, 325 WIA, 7 MIA, 431 total. Source, Armeearzt PzGr 3.

cheers

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