Difference between Army and PVO Anti-Aircraft Units

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kaylan1
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Difference between Army and PVO Anti-Aircraft Units

#1

Post by kaylan1 » 19 Mar 2009, 19:40

:? What are the Differences between Army and PVO Anti-Aircraft Units of the Soviet Army?

Army AA Artillery-Regiment had 4 Batteries
Army AA Artillery Division had 4 regiments of 4 or 5 Batteries.

PVO AA Artillery-Regiment had ?
PVO AA Artillery-Division had?

So what is the diffence between Army and PVO Units?


Yours Sincerely

Kaylan1 :)

Art
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Re: Difference between Army and PVO Anti-Aircraft Units

#2

Post by Art » 21 Mar 2009, 14:02

That is a brief info on structure of AA units of the ground forces (from Zaloga, Ness, "Red Army handbook"):
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The following AA artillery divisions existed: 1-49, 64-74, 76. 46(II) was formed in May 1943 after 46(I) was disbanded. 1st, 16th, 8th, 15th and 68th became 2nd, 3rd,4th, 5th and 6th Guards Respectively
As concerns PVO units there were two types of AA divisions:
PVO AA artillery divisions. According to the NKO order of 21 May 1943 several AA regiments of the Moscow air defense were converted into divisions. Namely 72 Guards, 82, 176, 250, 251, 329, 745, 864, 1201, 1202, 1204, 1205 regiments – into 1st Guards, 50-61 divisions respectively, each division consisting of 5 regiments (20 medium AA guns), a searchlight regiment (60 searchlight stations) and one AA artillery battalion (12 light guns). 751 and 862 regiments were converted into small-caliber divisions (62 and 63) each consisting of 5 regiments (20 light AA guns). As I understand each regiment allready consisted of 100 guns, so no real increase of the number of guns followed. In addition one division (75) was formed in 1944. Order of battle of the divisions (Feskov at al.):
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The most part of divisions remained deployed in the Moscow area.
Than there were PVO divisions. A small number existed in the first period of the war: 3 (Kiev) and 4 (Lvov) formed before the war started (disbanded in 1941), and 3(II) – Voronezh, 4(II) - Tambov and 5 (Kuibyshev) formed in 1941. All the rest PVO divisions were created in 1944-45, a considerable part of them – from PVO divisional regions. The following divisions were formed: 77 (from Ladoga divisional region), 78 (Arkhangelsk DR), 79 (Cherepovets-Vologda DR), 80 (Rybinsk-Yaroslavl DR), 81 (Smolensk DR), 82 (10 PVO brigade), 83 (73 antiaircraft brigade), 84 and 85 (from Kursk PVO corps region), 86 (Voronezh DR), 87 (North-Caucasus DR), 88 (Grozniy DR), 89 (2nd AA machinegun division), 90 (renamed from 81 PVO division), 91 (3 AA machinegun division). 92-99 divisions were formed in the Far East in spring of 1945, and 99 – simultaneously from the Central Asia PVO zone. As one can see all antiaircraft divisions had numbers from the same row, though composition of various types of divisions was different. No fixed TO&E of the PVO divisions existed as their order of battle was generally inherited from PVO divisional regions, usually they could comprise AA artillery regiments (battalions), AA machinegun regiments/battalions/companies, searchlight regiments/battalions, air observation battalions, AA armored trains, and also PVO fighter units (divisions or regiments). More details can be found in the BSSA.See for example OOB as of 1st Junuary 1945:
http://tashv.nm.ru/BoevojSostavSA/1945/19450101.html
Composition of PVO antiaircraft regiments differed from army regiments. As Svetlishin writes:
In the beginning of 1944 our command unified TO&Es of separate AA artilery regiments which were the basic tactical units of ground air defence means. According to the new organization AA artilery regiments equipped with medium guns were reduced to two basic types.
Regiments of the first type had 5 antiaircraft artillery battalions (15 batteries) and one searchlight battalion. Armament of these regiments consisted of 60 medium caliber guns, 15 12,7-мм AA machineguns, 30 "Prozhzvuk" (searchlight and sound) stations, and 30 accompanying searhclights. Regiments of the second type consisted of 4 artillery battalions (12 batteries) and were equipped with 48 medium caliber guns and 24 12,7-mm AA machineguns (2 per a battery). To each regiment of both types 4-5 separate aiming stations were attached (1 per a battalion).
Under the new organization PVO artillery regiments became essentially medium-caliber antiaircraft regiments. Small-caliber guns and machingun units were excluded from their composition (except machinguns squads of batteries
From "PVO forces.." by N.A. Svetlishin:
http://militera.lib.ru/science/svetlishin_na/03.html
Apperantly, contrary to Svetlishin's statements small-caliber regiments did exist in 1944 and later, at least NKO issued orders on organization and fomation of such units
I found information on the following TO&Es of PVO regiments:
050/4 – 60 85-mm guns
050/54 – 5 battalions, total 60 small-caliber guns
050/74 – 60 40-mm guns (90 in case of 6-guns batteries - in 1944 NKO ordered to introduce two additional guns in small-caliber batteries defensing the most important installations)
It is not clear whether 20-gun regiments existed only in artillery divisions or there were separate regiments of this type. As a conslusion PVO artillery regiments were generally stronger than army ones and conssited of battalions instead of batteries.
Hope that answers some questions.


kaylan1
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Re: Difference between Army and PVO Anti-Aircraft Units

#3

Post by kaylan1 » 21 Mar 2009, 15:25

:wink: :D Thanks Art, now the picture is clear about AA Art rgts.
Thanks again

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Re: Difference between Army and PVO Anti-Aircraft Units

#4

Post by Kelvin » 26 Sep 2010, 10:00

Hi, Art, I would like to ask you if every Combined Arms Army or Guards Tank Army had one organic army antiaircraft division in its OOB ? And 72 x 37mm gun AA division were put into use in late 1944 ? or just OOB on paper ? :)

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Re: Difference between Army and PVO Anti-Aircraft Units

#5

Post by Art » 26 Sep 2010, 17:14

43 AA Divsion had 15 85-mm, 72 37-mm AA guns and 46 DShK AA machineguns on 1 July 1944, to give an example. Combined-arms armies had one organic light AA regiment, GHQ units (typically divisions) were additionally attached in most cases.

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Re: Difference between Army and PVO Anti-Aircraft Units

#6

Post by Kelvin » 26 Sep 2010, 17:57

Hi, Art, thank for your answer. It help me so much. Normal combined arms army only had a light AA regiment. But regarding some elite units like Shock Army, Was they better equipped ? When I see OOB of 3rd Shock Army in early 1945, they had 36th AA division and three antitank brigades - 8th,40th and 45th. I don't know this OOB is normal or special.

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Re: Difference between Army and PVO Anti-Aircraft Units

#7

Post by Art » 29 Sep 2010, 21:43

Kelvin wrote: But regarding some elite units like Shock Army, Was they better equipped ?
If you mean peculiar organization than there was no practical difference.
When I see OOB of 3rd Shock Army in early 1945, they had 36th AA division and three antitank brigades - 8th,40th and 45th. I don't know this OOB is normal or special.
One antiaicraft division was normal, 3 AT brigades - more than normal.

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Re: Difference between Army and PVO Anti-Aircraft Units

#8

Post by Jeff Leach » 30 Sep 2010, 09:39

But regarding some elite units like Shock Army
I would avoid assuming that a formation was elite just because it had a special name. The Guards title could mean a unit had an larger TOE than a unit without the title, but the Guards title doesn't mean the unit was elite. The Guards title was in many cases just a morale builder and no guarentee that the unit performed better in combat than a unit without the title.
The name 'Shock Army' should, in my opinion, just be viewed as a neat name used to inspire the troops. If you look at their actual composition though time, they look like just any other Soviet Army and in many cases a weak army at that.

The Soviets did have elite combat unit. The cavalry groups that performed well in 1941 and were later converted to Guards Cavalry Corps come to mind. The airborne units and the infantry formations formed from them were also good formations. You might also make a case for the lower numbered Guards Infantry Divisions. Otherwise you need to look at a unit's combat record to determine if it was a good formation or just a run-of-the-mill unit.

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Re: Difference between Army and PVO Anti-Aircraft Units

#9

Post by Kelvin » 30 Sep 2010, 11:22

In some Guards units, at least they have excellent performance like 62nd Army in Stalingrad , so it converted into 8th Guards Army.

If look at OOB of 1st Byelorussian Front prior to Vistula-Oder offensive, 3rd and 5th Shock Army equipment were no better than normal combined arms armies like 33rd, 47th and 61st Armies. On the other hand, both 8th Guards and 69th Armies were heavily reinforced with artillery and armor resources. These two armies each were reinforced with two breakthrough artillery divisions, two antitank brigades and at least on AA division plus one Tank Corps. And both Shock Armies were only normal armies.
But I don't know what guidelines to give shock title to armies if just boost up morale of army, which armies need special care or morale back up ? Shock mean assault, for assault operation, spearhead unit should be 3rd and 5th shock armies instead of 69th army. I see one book " Zhukov at the Oder " said Shock Army had additional artillery and armor support, but when look at some OOB, it was not true.

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Re: Difference between Army and PVO Anti-Aircraft Units

#10

Post by Jeff Leach » 30 Sep 2010, 19:50

I was just urging caution in assuming that Russian units with fancy names are elite units. Many of these titles were earned because a unit performed well once (some got them without even needing to fight hard) but with my limited knowledge, I can't say which units continued to perform better than an average unit.

Shock Army were assualt armies when they were formed but after their initial use they functioned more as regular armies but with a fancy name. They were not special armies that the Russian moved to the most threatened sector time and again.

It can be that they did have some extra assets permanently attached but I don't what they were, if such is the case.

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