Escape sollution for Bismarck, opinion?

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Groscurth
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Escape sollution for Bismarck, opinion?

#1

Post by Groscurth » 21 Feb 2004, 15:19

Why did Bismarck did not launch it's 3 Arado aircraft to fight the slower Swodfish (150km/h) that were only with 10 or so. I guess that if 2 plaines are on the 2 (?)catapults ready to launch (SCRAMBLE) with the pilot near them, you could have the first 2 in the air not long after you spoted the Swordfish on Bismarck radar. Anyway before they could be in a aatack position. While they are dispersing and making it difficult to place a hit , Bismarck could launch it's third Arado (if there was a third, don't remember).

They could have left those 3 fighters in the air while steaming at 30 knots to the zone that was under the aircover of German bombers and the zone in wich U boats were.
Of course, those Arado would be without fuel after some hours (don't know, 5/6 hours?) but they would have managed to keep the enemy of. When they had to land because of fuel shortage, Bismarck would not have the time to stop and recuperate the pilots and aircraft and still had to steam at full speed or was in the covered area.

Anyway, the pilots could be recuperated by U boats or a HE 115 or would be a minimum loss compared to the safety of Bismarck.

That is what I would do when I have Swordfish on radar at 20km, this would give me the time to launch to ready Arado and prepare the third to fight 10 slower plaines. Even with a defect radar, this would still be possible.

Problem is that nobody thought that aircraft would kill a battleship and for thus the plaines were not ready to launch and they used them as reconaiscance instead of defence..

Your opinion on the use of the Arado against the Swordfish? What do you think?

I posted this on the "What if to" because it has a place there to, but not completely.

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#2

Post by varjag » 22 Feb 2004, 05:06

I don't think the German navy was in the habit of launching aircraft that could not be recovered, as the weather was too rough for landing an Arado. Besides there was only one catapult and getting a second a/c onto it must have been a rather slow business.


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Kurt_Steiner
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ar 196/Bismarck

#3

Post by Kurt_Steiner » 11 Apr 2004, 20:14

Furthermore, I don't think the Ar196 was a good fighter...

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Tiornu
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Re: Escape sollution for Bismarck, opinion?

#4

Post by Tiornu » 11 Apr 2004, 21:18

Even with dedicated facilities, trained specialists, and genuine fighters, fighter interception is not that simple.
Since Bismarck's catapult was disabled at Denmark Strait, the point is moot.

Jon G.
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#5

Post by Jon G. » 11 Apr 2004, 23:39

The Bismarck did try to launch an Arado. Not to intercept the approaching RN aircraft, but to fly back to Brest with the ship's logs and mail from the crew once Lütjens had decided that his ship was doomed.

That the Bismarck's crew only discovered then that her catapult had been damaged already in the Denmark Strait encounter implies that seaplanes did not have a very high priority aboard German ships.

Witch-King of Angmar
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#6

Post by Witch-King of Angmar » 12 Apr 2004, 00:13

Shrek wrote:The Bismarck did try to launch an Arado. Not to intercept the approaching RN aircraft, but to fly back to Brest with the ship's logs and mail from the crew once Lütjens had decided that his ship was doomed.

That the Bismarck's crew only discovered then that her catapult had been damaged already in the Denmark Strait encounter implies that seaplanes did not have a very high priority aboard German ships.
The floatplane could have taken off from water. Or at least they could have tried.

~The Witch-King of Angmar

varjag
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#7

Post by varjag » 12 Apr 2004, 12:25

Witch-King, all reports of prevailing weather-conditions point to that a water take-off for the Arado could not even be contemplated.

Fubbik
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#8

Post by Fubbik » 07 Sep 2004, 16:38

The Arado Ar 196 was faster than the Swordfish and more heavily armed (2 20 mm guns and 3 7.92 mm machine-guns), but to contemplate a role as a fighter is stretching matters a bit. They (there were four of them on board) could hardly have taken of from the sea in the heavy weather. There has been theories of taking of in lee of the Bismarck, but that could hardly have been done.

varjag
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#9

Post by varjag » 08 Sep 2004, 13:05

Fubbik wrote:The Arado Ar 196 was faster than the Swordfish and more heavily armed (2 20 mm guns and 3 7.92 mm machine-guns), but to contemplate a role as a fighter is stretching matters a bit. They (there were four of them on board) could hardly have taken of from the sea in the heavy weather. There has been theories of taking of in lee of the Bismarck, but that could hardly have been done.
Aircraft movements 'in the lee of...' relate to landings - not take-offs. The take-off run for a sea-plane is a very long and ardous one - the landing run, if handled by a skilled pilot - can be very short. The German (and others) method was for the ship to make a high speed turn which on the inside of the turn left an area of relatively undisturbed ocean (in moderate seas). The German term for this was to make an 'Ententeppich' (a duck's carpet). The sea conditions around BISMARCK were too severe for even that. On the wishful side of things - 3 Arados in the air when the attack developed WOULD have made a difference. But there was only catapult, each aircraft had to be raised from the hanger, assembled and then on to the catapult - a slow process. The first would've been low on fuel when the third took to the air - and any way the time was too short for any 'fighter-patrol' - catapult working or not.

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Uni
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#10

Post by Uni » 15 Sep 2004, 12:28

The take-off run for a sea-plane is a very long and ardous one...

I don't mean to nit pick, but I watch float planes take off every day and there's nothing long and arduous about it, unless of course they are heavily laden with cargo. The planes that I am refeerring to, mostly DeHavilland Beavers, have 450 Hp engines. The Ar-196 hada 950 Hp engine. I think it could have gotten off the water without a problem...in good weather, of course. Any sign of a storm and all float planes are "grounded". So of course they couldn't have defended the Bismarck
Cheers

varjag
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#11

Post by varjag » 15 Sep 2004, 13:54

Well Uni - an Ar 196 had about twice the wing-loading of the excellent DH Beaver - so even in ideal conditions = rippled waters with 4-7 knot headwind - u would've noticed the difference. Take a look at your Beaver - struggling with glassy conditions...and enjoy the roar of those prop-tips deafening the silence...varjag

Tiornu
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#12

Post by Tiornu » 15 Sep 2004, 18:05

The Arado was also prone to breaking apart--shedding its engine, for example--when handled too roughly.

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