Please help with dagger identification?

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tedford863
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Please help with dagger identification?

Post by tedford863 » 27 Nov 2015 18:06

My grandfather served in the USN, in Europe and the Pacific. He brought home a dagger, (I believe it came home with him), but I can't find any markings on it or references to anything on the net. If anyone could shed some light on what it might be, I would appreciate it. My grandfather passed away before explaining to anyone where he got the item. It appears to be a hidden dagger with a "blackjack" end that could be used with the leather strap at the opposite end. Thanks for any help you can offer...
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Mark in Cleveland, Tn.
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Re: Please help with dagger identification?

Post by Mark in Cleveland, Tn. » 28 Nov 2015 01:54

Very interesting for sure!!! Let me search a minute

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Mark in Cleveland, Tn.
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Re: Please help with dagger identification?

Post by Mark in Cleveland, Tn. » 28 Nov 2015 02:03

Sent you a PM... I have seen a couple of these in the past, somewhere on the www, but that was then, this is now!!

brick2
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Re: Please help with dagger identification?

Post by brick2 » 29 Nov 2015 02:07

Looks like a Camel Whip

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rlimike
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Re: Please help with dagger identification?

Post by rlimike » 29 Nov 2015 22:30

brick2 wrote:Looks like a Camel Whip
After doing a web search.... I believe you are correct.

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John G.
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Re: Please help with dagger identification?

Post by John G. » 30 Nov 2015 09:54

Usually "called" British Military Camel Dagger Whip/riding Crop... obviously not "issue" as such, but popular with forces in Arabia, N.East, Africa/India as "riding Crop" by many Officers as well as Camel Corps itself... also available to tourists, etc. at the local Bazaar (propably still are). Time period is long so tough to actually date... nice. The hidden dagger was not the normal version.. makes this much more collectible, of course.
John G.

PS... These are illegal to "carry"/sell in many states (Concealed weapon/blade type/length) probably Mass. included. OK to own and keep at home I believe.

tedford863
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Re: Please help with dagger identification?

Post by tedford863 » 01 Dec 2015 00:04

Thank you all for looking at/for it. A whip would have been the last thing I suspected as it's only about 14" long, and the weighted ball at the end seemed ideal for use as a blackjack with the wrist inserted through the loop at the other end. Can't find photos online to match it no matter what search terms I use. I was hoping to make use of a large knife website in hopes someone could ID it, but they won't allow picture posts unless I am a "paying member" LOL...

Again, thanks...Bill

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John G.
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Re: Please help with dagger identification?

Post by John G. » 01 Dec 2015 09:51

The "weighted ball end" was intended to be a "blackjack" in case of emergency... same thing as a sword cane... was a multi-use item... "Camel Whip"/riding Crop/swagger stick" as well as a "personal defense weapons system"... remember British officers (as well as many other nationalities) carried Riding Crops or Swagger sticks as symbols of rank. I've seen similiar Crops/hidden daggers brought back by GIs as souvenirs from WW 2- probably bought at the local bazaar, but they could date much earlier I'm sure.

Not something you'll find much information about- as they are really a commercial-type item and the "concealed weapon" factor, even on a "knife" site, though would be worth asking. I'm sure value would be in the eye of the beholder... but not sigificant IMO, having dealt in Militaria and "associated" weaponry for many years.
John G.
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Hans Fischer
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Re: Please help with dagger identification?

Post by Hans Fischer » 24 Oct 2019 21:48

I just purchased a "Riding Crop" from an Estate sale of Retired US. Colonel...who was said to have bought it in Germany in late 50s....Its Heavy..with heavy Ball end...(Blackjack)......the Estate Seller "Thought" it might have a Sword or Dagger inside...but I cant find anyway to open it....if that is in fact true......any help and suggestions are Appreciated.......Danke ...Hans Fischer

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John G.
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Re: Please help with dagger identification?

Post by John G. » 27 Oct 2019 11:45

Put a drop of oil on the seam between the ball and shaft. If no seam, then it can't be a sword cane. If it does, try pushing or pulling the knob at the same time to see if it will turn (use light force only!). Probably not a sword cane, most officers considered such things gerrish or low brow....

A photo might help.
John G.

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Hans Fischer
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Re: Please help with dagger identification?

Post by Hans Fischer » 28 Oct 2019 04:13

The Riding Crop which I purchased from the ESTATE Sale is a Twin to the one in the Top photo....But I have unable to "unsheathe a sword" from it.. ???..its Quit stiff and a bit heavy......and the Ball end is very heavy....like a Blackjack.......and it appears to have a waffenamt on the end up inside the whip end of it....in the very inside top......very faint...but thats what it looks like....Very Interesting Piece........Im going to our Annual TMCA Show in November and plan on putting on my table......havent come up with a value for resale........any opinions....suggestions...????....Danke ..Hans Fischer

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John G.
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Re: Please help with dagger identification?

Post by John G. » 28 Oct 2019 18:26

I doubt the riding crop would be German, it wouldn't be an issue item even if it is,so it shouldn't have a waffenampt. Certainly take it to the show.... See what reaction you get there. I'd guess it wouldn't be of any significant value unless the buyer felt is is WW 2 German. $50./75. as a ridiing crop, maybe twice that of believe to be German WW2. Finding a sword / dagger blade would increase potential value also.
Just my opinion, or course.
John G.

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rlimike
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Re: Please help with dagger identification?

Post by rlimike » 02 Nov 2019 22:58

John G. wrote:
28 Oct 2019 18:26
I doubt the riding crop would be German, it wouldn't be an issue item even if it is,so it shouldn't have a waffenampt. Certainly take it to the show.... See what reaction you get there. I'd guess it wouldn't be of any significant value unless the buyer felt is is WW 2 German. $50./75. as a ridiing crop, maybe twice that of believe to be German WW2. Finding a sword / dagger blade would increase potential value also.
Just my opinion, or course.
John G.
John, I did a google search on (riding crop dagger) and there are quite a few of them out there .... who would have thought these were common.
Mike

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