Heinrich Himmler's Great Chair - real or fake?

[Potsdamerplatz]

What does everyone think of this:

http://www.germaniainternational.com/himmlerchair.html

Heinrich Himmler's Great Chair is a Nazi relic designed by Karl Maria Wiligut that is adorned with occult and runic symbology.

According to the researches of Germania International and based on their inquiries investigations and interviews with townspeople in the Tegernsee area, they determined that Wewelsburg was where they were were to be delivered.

They were apparently presented to Reichsführer Heinrich Himmler on behalf of his loyal staff and officers of the Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler.

There were, apparently, four of these chairs carved by master wood carvers of the Tyrol.

It is believed that these first four chairs were the first of 12 chairs for the 12 knights of the Wewelsburg Order. "But, this is fairly loose speculation almost eradicated by the large H H. seen in the central portion of the carving."

Real or another fake scam? I would be interested in everyone's views. Personally the story on Germania International seems a little too far fetched for me but anything is possible I suppose.

Best regards.

[Mark in Cleveland, Tn.]

I say. what a load of B.S.Is not this site the one that has been trashed forever on this and other forums concerning all their''''''SS and other rings....""""
If you read the story closely, a lot of double talk, and really no concrete facts that ANYONE can confirm independantly without GermaniaInternational ""help"

This site always has the ""ultra rare"", but also has the most anal ""story''to back the relic up

i.e. all the stupid rings they have had for sale forever..

[vonDunkelheit]

i wonder how much they want for it/

[Mark in Cleveland, Tn.]

He wants $ 50,000.... in unmarked bills. Said he will take blank check ,if you have ""sucker"" as a middle name..

[Potsdamerplatz]

There are some good photographs and historical documents on the Germania International site but the larger items like this one are very suspect.

Best regards.

[ChristopherPerrien]

I consider it very weird that this guy says he had a chair (1 of 4) , it got burned up and he MANAGED :roll: to acquire another one. Generally you would expect people with money to buy such things to never sell them given the rarity, and losing one, Why would he go through all the trouble AND EXPENSE to acquire one of the other THREE :roll: chairs just to sell it?

I have my doubts as to the authenticity of his first chair, Fire and I "suspect" possible insurance fraud and all, and it gets a whole lot worse given he has mysteriously managed to acquire another . Probably the original craftman made some chairs postwar and/or as probably, copies are being today made based on the design of Wewelsburg(sp?) chair. Sure it would be nice own such apiece if you happen to have a prediliction for such objects, but I suspect almost all existing chairs of this design never had,

Himmler's butt,
warming them up.

Looking at the pictures , I would think an "original" copy of these chairs would be worth a few thousand bucks, given the craftmanship invovled and if made by the same man who made the actual chairs, but you will never see a "genuine" one for sale , if any exist for that matter.

[Michael Miller]

I agree, chair should be viewed with great skepticism. Also agree that the site is very well-illustrated. But their political and social stance is quite clear, and unpleasant, as in the following item description ("horrors of miscegenation", "quest for human perfection"- their own words):

Book Stammbaum und Artbild der Deutschen from the Library Archives of the SS Death’s Head Standarte at “Oberbayern” (Item SS 27-5)

DESCRIPTION: This book Family Tree and Type Pictures of the Germans by Fritz Kern was pretty much a textbook of the SS. Although published in 1937, 6 years before the NSDAP achieved full power, it served as the hornbook of racial studies of the SS organization. In the library that was auctioned off there were several copies of this book. Through photographs taken in several countries and supplied by museums and universities, Professor Kern puts together a compelling picture that clearly shows the intellectual superiority of the Nordic race and Germanic peoples. Racial-type comparisons are vividly shown as well as ancient art and statuary while respect and admiration is shown to other races. There is preference of course to the Celts, Teutons, and other kindred white cultural groups. The horrors inherent in miscegenation are illustrated graphically. The noble and ignoble are shown side by side. Physiognomy and skull structure abound within the pages. Noble art is depicted beside examples of degenerate offerings down though the ages. This book is not only rare, it is also a very important archival treasure for the serious student of racial hygiene and the quest for human perfection and of course the SS connection is also of great importance.
PRICE: $495.00

~ Mike

[Michael Miller]

From the same site- their-- er-- slightly revisionist and apologist views on the purpose and history of the Einsatzgruppen: http://www.germaniainternational.com/ss22.html

A lot of nifty stuff on that site, plus a lot of fakes (I seriously doubt they acquired all those books from "the SS library" and think it's within the realm of possibility that they created those Totenkopf bookplates on their own computer and just slapped them into a bunch of contemporary books- thus creating instant "SS library holdings"), perhaps some unauthorized lifting of photos from books by Max Williams, Mark Yerger, Jack Angolia, etc.- and a downright nauseating degree of neo-Nazi balderdash and blatantly racist vomitage (that last might not be a word, but I like it so I'm going to keep it).

~ Mike

[G.]

He's got a large vocabulary, a few strange items,,but mainly a site of fairy tales to substantiate their bogus items...And I'd agree, slightly leaning to neo-nazis........

[Rocdoc]

Himmler's Chair is REAL. I have seen it first-hand and how it got into the game room of a very mild-mannered gentleman (who I loved as "Uncle" Bob Schermer) in Mt. Lebanon, PA (outside of Pittsburgh) in the mid-60's. I lived down the street from him and often in my early adolescence sat on this massive piece of Nazi memorabilia.

The first-hand verbal account was told to me by his wife ("Aunt" Elaine) since Bob was reluctant to speak of it (as are many vets that I know). As I recall, he was wounded in combat and was assigned as the US Army officer in charge of the occupation in small town in Bavaria south of Munich after discharge from hospital and while still convalescing. He acquired the chair at that time and had it shipped home. My "aunt" said it was a presentation to Himmler from his men ("Uncle" Bob was impressed that a kid my age would know who HH was.....). I also recall that Bob worshiped in the Jewish faith and thought it wonderfully ironic (if not downright hilariously poetic) that such a piece of Nazi-mania would end up in his game room next to the bar and the pool table. I also recall wearing "Uncle" Bob's combat boots (his feet were small-ish and the boots fit me as a teen). His other memorabilia included a pistol (I recall it may have been a Mauser HSc) with holster and spare magazine (holster had a eagle with swastika motif). He later gave me the holster which I still have somewhere but I was too young (and mother forbade) for the pistol. I have no idea what happened to the weapon nor the story of how he acquired it (so pls don't even ask). Last I heard it went with him when he retired to Florida after years as a furniture sales rep.

The chair was MASSIVE. I mean it was HUGE, of solid wood and hand carved with swastikas (which is what first got my attention as a crass teen), SS-runes and other symbols. So, my friends, I have read the text on the GermaniaInternational site and would have to conclude that the narrative therein largely fits what was told to me many years ago. Thus, to reply to the inquiry (e.g. "is the chair real"?) the following would have to align properly insofar as 1) the proprietor of GermaniaInternational would have to know of my "Uncle Bob"; and 2) my "Uncle" would have had to stick to the story without wavering in details over many years); 3) GermaniaInternational would have to fabricate a clever bit of historical fiction worthy of a Pulitzer Prize to matah the threads of a story told to me nearly 40 years ago (geez...has it been THAT long?) I would have to support the chair as the real deal.

Thoughts welcomed. One more from me....the chair was very UN-comfortable and definitely NOT the kind of thing you would curl up in with a brandy, cigar and a good book. Thus I would have my doubts that it was polished by the backside of one HH with any frequency. Still, as the line in a movie says...."upon the most exhalted throne in the world, we are seated upon nothing except our own arse".

[mailalan]

I came across this thread after googling for information on this chair. I googled because a company called 3R that makes 1/6th scale WWII action figures is coming out with a 1/6th scale replica. I can only imagine that they used the images on germaniainternational as their reference because I can't seem to find any photos of the chair anywhere else except on other auction sites that have copied them from germania. The only person in this thread who stated they believed the chair was real was the above Rocdoc who has only 1 post on this site. I find it interesting that there are no photos of Himmler with the chair since there were many thousands of photographs taken of him. If the chair is a fake it's funny that we'll now have a 1/6 replica of a fake.

[Linkagain]

if its shown to be real Im nor suprized..remember how H H tried to create his own verisan of the SS round Table,,,,

[Mark in Cleveland, Tn.]

Was proven many years ago to be a total scam fantasy junk, and as for that 1 post RocDoc, ehh we blew him away right after that post over 15 years ago or so

[von thoma]

A question for Mark in Cleveland.

Mark, I am looking for an old thread of yours, and I can't find it ...so my question is, do you delete your old query messages ?

[Mark in Cleveland, Tn.]

This what I am now is a new account of mine,my first membership of many years got wiped off the face of the Earth due to the computer I used at the time, with a different handle,account, password got destroyed, and at that time after I contacted Marcus, we could not reestablish the account, so I ahd to start all over ,that was years ago.