Kriegsmarine Flag Authentic?

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james127
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Kriegsmarine Flag Authentic?

Post by james127 » 21 Oct 2015 19:05

I was hoping to get some feedback on a flag that I am looking at purchasing. I've had a few guys tell me that it looks good to them (based on the pictures), but I figure that when it comes to this stuff, more opinions are always better :)

Any concerns with this one?
flag3.jpg
flag4.jpg
20151017_202725.jpg
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John G.
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Re: Kriegsmarine Flag Authentic?

Post by John G. » 22 Oct 2015 09:02

No concerns with this one from what I can see.... this is a Kriegsflagge, not necessarily "just" for the Kriegsmarine... (Naval versions normally have "Eagle M" stamp mks).... which aren't shown in the photos.

Only real factor would be the price....
John G.

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Dennis Redler
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Re: Kriegsmarine Flag Authentic?

Post by Dennis Redler » 23 Oct 2015 00:03

I always use my blacklight or uv tester on white material to see if it has the postwar glow.

james127
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Re: Kriegsmarine Flag Authentic?

Post by james127 » 23 Oct 2015 01:19

Dennis Redler wrote:I always use my blacklight or uv tester on white material to see if it has the postwar glow.
I ended up meeting the individual and bringing a blacklight with me. It checked out and I went ahead and purchased it. Pretty cool flag. This is the first Kriegsflagge that I been able to get.

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Dennis Redler
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Re: Kriegsmarine Flag Authentic?

Post by Dennis Redler » 23 Oct 2015 01:47

Congrats...nice flag.

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Mark in Cleveland, Tn.
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Re: Kriegsmarine Flag Authentic?

Post by Mark in Cleveland, Tn. » 23 Oct 2015 04:47

Most all these type flags are the German National War flag, not Kriegsmarine usage, a common miss conception, as JohnG points out

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Re: Kriegsmarine Flag Authentic?

Post by spacefury » 01 Nov 2015 19:15

Hi,

Noobie here...

I have a comment and a question:

Comment: Nice flag, the colors look great and its nice to see a tag on something for a change..

My question is this:
I have recently come across some German items in an attic while out on tag sales. They were in a Henkell wooden box that I have been able to date to 1968 by the slogan used on the box and the history of Henkell.

In the box was an Imperial War Flag. Nice colors with the white clearly yellowed a bit. I checked other sites on how to validate the item as authentic. I did the burn test on a 1 inch long loose thread and it Passed. Smelled like burnt paper and had no plastic residue or beading.
I just did the black light test and while the entire flag and the rope didn't fluoress, the stitching did. Is this a Fail?

Hope someone can help..

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Mark in Cleveland, Tn.
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Re: Kriegsmarine Flag Authentic?

Post by Mark in Cleveland, Tn. » 02 Nov 2015 03:41

No one will help you till you post pics, but I have read this exact *story* before on other forums way back last year, I call your post BS until proven other wise

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John G.
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Re: Kriegsmarine Flag Authentic?

Post by John G. » 02 Nov 2015 10:07

Yes, we'd need good pictures, the exact size (in inches & metric), markings, etc. before anyone can help... none of the tests mean anything without seeing the overall flag... I'll take your inquiry at "face value" so please post those pictures.
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spacefury
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Re: Kriegsmarine Flag Authentic?

Post by spacefury » 02 Nov 2015 14:58

Mark in Cleveland, Tn. wrote:No one will help you till you post pics, but I have read this exact *story* before on other forums way back last year, I call your post BS until proven other wise
Well nice to meet you Mark from Tennessee.....
I'm glad you can read, however any post other than the one I MADE yesterday is NOT from ME and certainly in NOT BS....

I got my stuff 2 weeks ago and NEVER posted on any board or forum, but DID do a lot of reading. I never came across an "exact" story such as you put it....

When I'm done with my reply to YOU, then I will post whatever pics I can and PROVE YOU to be BS.......

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Re: Kriegsmarine Flag Authentic?

Post by spacefury » 02 Nov 2015 16:06

Hello All,

Here is the flag, the markings, the blacklit parts, a pic with a thread from a new shirt to show difference, etc. The black light literally had to be held close to the material to get a reaction of the stitching.

Again, Any help would be appreciated..
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John G.
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Re: Kriegsmarine Flag Authentic?

Post by John G. » 02 Nov 2015 16:24

Spacefury,
I'm sorry to have to tell you... this is a 1960s/70s "Delta/Unique Imports/WW 2 Unlimited" Reproduction Imperial War flag....there are no 60 x 90 original period flags.. as well as the quality of the printing on this one and on an original is VERY differant. Small display value only. ($20.00 retail IMO).

Mark can be blunt... but he knows his stuff pretty well IMO. Don't take offense as we do deal with alot of scam artists, etc. which can be a "pain". I'll take your inquiries at face value and will be glad to help... I have over 57 years of serious collecting experiance.
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spacefury
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Re: Kriegsmarine Flag Authentic?

Post by spacefury » 02 Nov 2015 19:33

Hello John,

Thanks for the "bad news" :)

I did see posts online that 60x90 are always fakes, but then I stumbled on a military site that had their own dispute going (not involving me) that 60x90 meant nothing and that's where the burn test and backlight info was obtained.

Your assessment goes right with the wooden box I was able to date due to Henkell's advertising slogan for that 2 year span of 1968-69.

I'm going to post a few other pics of items I got that same day and hopefully you or others on the board (including Mark) can help.

The Iron Cross next to the Fire Brigade one says 1939 on the bottom, but the obverse side reads 1813 with the pins attached going right through it and shows signs of old white enamel.

The metal swastika has SS and a wreath encircling them. The back has writing I was able to translate for 12 years of service.

The silver colored Iron Cross has a 25 on the back.

The large NSFK Grossflugtag Frankfurt piece is marked on the back botton Brehmer Markneu- kirchenon 3 lines. Appears to be Brass or Bronze.

The Dagger is marked A.W.Jr SOLINGEN.

Thanks in advance,
Frank
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John G.
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Re: Kriegsmarine Flag Authentic?

Post by John G. » 02 Nov 2015 21:07

Spacefury;
Mixed bag... mostly fake unfortunately- but let me go done the list (L to R, top to bottom).

Army Officers Dagger w/hangers and knot. Original, Knot is not properly afixed, can't see details but not question it's a good one.

Top row "seals"- all are fakes from 60s/70s I'm afraid (made from real seals but not original)

Luftw. Flak Oberst (Colonel) collar tabs- appear real.

EK 39 3nd cl. w/ribbon. Appears real.

Palm tree patch- fake

Lorient Shield- fake

Balkan Shield- fake

Narvik Shield- probably fake

NSFK Plaque award- Appears o.k., stands a chance.

Small winged wheel swas. pin- actually Finnish WW 2, not German. Was sold as German back then. Some interest to certian collectors.

Lappland Shield- Fake

SS Long Service Award- Fake

Breast Eagle- Fake

SS Rank tabs- Probably fake

Swas. & Swords pin- another Finnish pin sold as German in the 60s/70s. Some small interest.

Wehr. 25 yr. Long Service- fake

Iron Cross Core- Fake

Fire Cross 2nd Cl.- maybe o.k.

Any maked appears ok or similiar would need detailed photos front & back, etc. for a definate yeah or nay....

Probably more bad news than good... at least the dagger, EK 39, tabs, maybe the NSFK plague, maybe firecross... are or appear real.
John G.

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John G.
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Re: Kriegsmarine Flag Authentic?

Post by John G. » 02 Nov 2015 21:12

PS About the 60 x 90 flags... No one with any collecting knowledge would question that 60 x 90 is the KISS OF DEATH! I'd have reservations on whoever is making such claims (not that we all aren't fooled or wrong occassionally!)
John G.

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