Kriegsmarine Flag Authentic?

[spacefury]

John,

I can't thank you enough for looking at the items I posted. Anything you say was from late 60's-early 70's fits right in with the year of the Henkell box. This may have been a beginner collector who got caught up in the world of the unknowledgeable and misguided.

The Dagger I figured was good from the get go and that's what made me delve into the rest I saw.

I am gonna bother you one last time on this subject as I'm sure more will come in my trails...

The pictures posted are of the backs of the items you weren't sure of.

The NSFK Plaque has the maker on the bottom. Like the Dagger, I was sure this was good as it WAS marked. I know everything can be faked, but a makers name in the same font in the alloy would be more time consuming unless its a very expensive item.

The back of the Palm Tree.
Back of the Iron Cross showing 1813 and the affixed pin.
Fire Brigade backing.
Back of both SS rank tabs.
The backs of Narvik and Lorient.

My question regarding the Sleeve Badges is how do you know if they are faked or not? The Lorient has holes around the edging to be stitched on and the Narvik has the same pin tabs as the other Sleeve Badges I have.

Again MANY MANY THANKS for your help.
I Buy/Sell/Trade/Repair old toys and the last thing I want to do is portray knowledge in something I don't and isn't what its suppose to be.

Regards,
Frank

[John G.]

Spacefury...

Glad to help, just wish it had been better news...

As for the new photos...

The good news:

NSFK looks like a good one to me... the hanger clip and quality are what one should expect. Markings are often reproduced, often with great skill, so don't be fooled by good quality markings.... it's a combination of "everything" that determines originality.

The 2nd Cl. Fire Serv. award also looks good, however, high quality fakes exist (you'd need extreme closeups of the "lettering" to compare with a known original to tell the difference). Adding a medal ring and finding a ribbon would make this a much nicer piece, well worth it if it is original.

The rest is all bad news I'm afraid....

The SS tabs don't look correct...though these can be hard to be sure... I'd keep them for "display purposes"...

The rest are all bad to the bone... including both shields, the EK pin back, the Afrika Palm tree patch (which never existed)... The shields can be difficult, but all these are such poor quality fakes or incorrectly made... that there's no doubt on these.

If you're interested in serious collecting, you should study originals (fronts & backs!)....German quality is also exceptional, even on latewar items made of "potmetal". Money spent on good reference books is always a good investment (if they are read, of course!), studying reputable dealer sites (Collectors Guild, Ruptured Duck, & others) for original examples (NOT FOR PRICING), and using this and other collector forums (Wehrmacht Awards forum is especially helpful with great threads on awards, SS cloth, many other items, real and fakes, etc. - open only to assoc. members but well worth the $$$$.)

Of course... we'll be glad to help too... best to ask before major purchases however.
John G.

[spacefury]

Once again, I can't thank you enough.
I went to sites:
militaryitems.com : seemed very very informative

e-militaria.com : has some of the same items I possess up for sale along with info on many others. I'm now skeptical because he has an Afrika Palm Tree up for sale, so that makes me wonder about the info being reported.

your site : EXTREMELY helpful and the other forums and discussions I've read are just simply great.

I'm not disappointed in what I've obtained. Got it ALL (dagger included) for under $40
Not to mention the non-military items I bought that I know ARE fully authentic as I'm in that field for pennies on the dollar.

Goes to show you, and I mention that wooden box again, I dated the box and all the repro items that were in it were from that period as well.

My ultimate last question: What metals were used to make the NSFK plaques? I saw one for sale that was anodized aluminum. The one I have is either Brass or Bronze.

Frank

[John G.]

Frank,
The two sites you mentioned are VERY SHAKEY... at best. I'd only use them for very basic identification purposes...many items are fake on both sites!

I've seen Alum. and base metal plaques, not sure about brass or bronze, but many others were made from brass/bronze so I'd not be bothered by that. "Relimike" here is our NSFK specialist, so you might want to post this seperately under a new heading...

You did great for $40.00...
John G.

[Motorhead12]

Hello,
I was wondering if any of the experts could help me with a couple Kriegsmarine flags I recently purchased. They were supposedly found in a foot locker belonging to a veteran of the 76th infantry. They look almost new. One does have the hoist rope missing that's the Fahnenrichter one, and it has a couple tiny holes in it. The other is all intact, no holes and is a Plutzar and Brull. They just look so new that I'm skeptical. Any help on authentication would be greatly appreciated. I'm trying to attach pictures but it's saying file too large and won't let me?

[John G.]

Can't help without seeing decent photos.... there are "tools" on how to reduce/enlarge photos here. The fact they are "near mint" is not unusual, especially for flags. The missing ropes and minor holes certainly hurt some.... you don't say sizes, what type flag (Kriegsflagge or ?), are they naval marked (eagle M stamp)... all that would at least answer some basic "need to knows".....
You should really start a new thread rather than tag onto the end of an old and long posting.... you'd get better interest.
John G.

[Motorhead12]

Hi John thanks for the response. They are both marked with an M under the eagle. They are both sized 150x250 which brings me to my next question. I measured them and the widths seem to correspond with 150cm but the lengths are not exact. Was there room for deviation from those measurements listed on the flags? Or should they be exact? Thanks again for your response. I'll work on the pictures.

[John G.]

Good that they are naval marked, good size too! Certainly there can be some variation on exact sizes, so that wouldn't bother me. Probably good if they are of same/close to RK Flags that started this thread (material, print, halyard, rope, etc.).... retail and wholesale values are pretty much as I stated in the original thread. Reichskreigsflagges are not rare... I've owned dozens of Naval and non-naval versions.... but they are "classic" and thus in good demand.
Keep trying the photos just to be positive...
John G.

[Motorhead12]

Thanks again for your response and input John, i really appreciate it. I absolutely cannot figure out how to post pictures. I'm going to blame it on being an outdoorsman and construction worker all my life. If there's anyway I can email them or send them somewhere I know how to do that at least. Thanks again for the help.http://s364.photobucket.com/user/motorh ... sort=3&o=3

[Motorhead12]

http://s364.photobucket.com/user/motorh ... sort=3&o=3

[Motorhead12]

I put the pictures in a photo bucket account that I haven't used in over 10 years. The link should be above. Hopefully they can be seen in there by folks. I apologize in advance for any other pictures in there as I couldn't figure out how to delete them. Thanks again for any help in advance.