WWI "Battlefield Souvenir" Ring

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Vint8ge
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WWI "Battlefield Souvenir" Ring

Post by Vint8ge » 28 Dec 2019 23:04

As a new member, let me express some appreciation for the expertise among the members of this board. I wasn't aware of this community existed until now.

I made a somewhat questionable decision to purchase a WWI battlefield Souvenir ring displaying an unusual german / prussian crown.

I got it off ebay from a seller who had several other items including a cigarette case, several lighters, and a matchbox cover. These items are allegedly from the collection of his grandfather, who served in WWI. The us-based seller also had several other antique car parts and a few other things for sale that led me not to be overly skeptical of his backstory. In addition there was some positive feedback from previously sold WWI relics, and antiques which strengthened my overall confidence.

After browsing this forum I have become aware that most "battlefield souvenir" type items are fake/fantasy. to be fair, I recognized a lot of fake and fraudulent items on eBay and already knew that this was the case. But I saw someone on here mention 99% fake (gasp) :?

So... I have not received the item yet. I have asked the seller to prepare some Provenance related to who his grandfather was and what theaters he was in during world war 1.

This thread will be updated with high resolution pictures ASAP once I receive the ring.

---

My preliminary questions once the thread is updated with pics:

Is it possible this is an authentic ring from WWI era Germany or earlier?

The prussian crown depicted on this ring is of an unusual design compared to similar crowns I have seen in the vein of the "Gott mit uns" patterns, or what has been referred to by John G as "Prussian Crown Button (2nd type)...common to most German states". After searching the internet I have only come up with one other image of a crown design ring that is comprable, but showing some additional wear. I will post pictures of the comparable image once I have the item. What is the origin of this crown design, and why is it different from the more common crown depicted on the Prussian crown button 2nd Type?

If it's possible this is authentic, Is this trench art, or a signet ring, or something else?

If it turns out I have been scammed as to the authenticity, I am willing to accept reality. That is why I have come to you and this community.


Stay tuned. The mystery will be revealed.

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Mark in Cleveland, Tn.
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Re: WWI "Battlefield Souvenir" Ring

Post by Mark in Cleveland, Tn. » 28 Dec 2019 23:24

Ehhh come on new member, let me be gentle,and not be a meanie--- without a pic no one can verify either way if the ring is a legit period relic, or some weird fantasy.The time for you to ask these questions is BEFORE you buy anything, not after the fact. and a motto you need to stick too when buying anything militaria, BUY THE RELIC, NEVER THE BS STORY.. If I understand Ebay, you are a willing buyer? So, whatever the relic turns out to be is all on you. How about you post the link from EBay here so we can see the thing, and the seller? IMO somewthing about your post reads *fishy* maybe I am just jaded over time seeing new members who's first post on AHF is along your request,

Vint8ge
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Re: WWI "Battlefield Souvenir" Ring

Post by Vint8ge » 28 Dec 2019 23:53

A lot of forums don't want you to post links to eBay. Plus, I didn't realize this post would get approved so quickly.

If it's okay with the moderators, and it doesn't break the forum rules, I could do that.

I have nothing to hide in this, after all I am coming to you guys because yall know more than me.

I didn't want to post the link to the eBay listing in the first post because I'm not trying to promote the seller, or worse, have somebody think that I am the seller trying to hawk my own goods.

I said I would wait until I got the item in my hand, with some high resolution pictures from my iPhone.

I am fully aware that without pictures, we can't move forward with diagnosis. As soon as the seller marks this as shipped, I will update this post with the listing link.

Vint8ge
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Re: WWI "Battlefield Souvenir" Ring

Post by Vint8ge » 28 Dec 2019 23:55

Mark in Cleveland, Tn. wrote:
28 Dec 2019 23:24
The time for you to ask these questions is BEFORE you buy anything, not after the fact. and a motto you need to stick too when buying anything militaria, BUY THE RELIC, NEVER THE BS STORY..
Sticky this. Well said.


But also if it's a "buy it now"... and i ask if it's real ... To a forum of collectors (!) ... And it turns out that it is real... then I would have essentially just handed it over to other people with more knowledge than myself, deeper pockets, and it could have been gone. I jumped.

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John G.
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Re: WWI "Battlefield Souvenir" Ring

Post by John G. » 29 Dec 2019 12:05

Post pictures..... The rest is not answerable until we can see it.
John G.

The 99% fake comment was much more directed at WW 2 German stuff... Cigarette cases, plates, trophies, etc. that have been embellished with Nazi emblems, etc. (Rings too).

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Mark in Cleveland, Tn.
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Re: WWI "Battlefield Souvenir" Ring

Post by Mark in Cleveland, Tn. » 29 Dec 2019 21:34

Ehh, I call the initial post BS, all you (the original poster) has to do is either post a link to the EBay page, or the item itself, why all the *nonsense* about someone else, blah,blah,blah??? Post a pic or the link if legit, I will apologize, IMO I think this post is either shilling a crap relic, or other such pissassery.

Vint8ge
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Re: WWI "Battlefield Souvenir" Ring

Post by Vint8ge » 30 Dec 2019 06:51

Thanks for the positive feedback.

Here goes:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ww1-WWI-AUTHEN ... 2849523375

I will get some better pics once I have this in my possession.

Maybe if someone can verify whether or not the cigarette case or the matchbox the seller has up is authentic, that could help? I suppose that only helps "the story" - whereas at this point the only thing that matters is the authenticity of the item, the ring.

Either way I only bought the ring. Maybe I bought the story too :? :cry:

But like i mentioned, I searched the internet to try to find a comprable style prussian/german crown depiction. I was only able to find one image that resembled this particular crown depiction. Once I get updated photos with the item in my hands, I will post the comparison picture, and you'll see the other depiction resembling this was more worn.

If this is a known knock off or something, let me know. Otherwise more pics coming once received.

Thanks yall

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John G.
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Re: WWI "Battlefield Souvenir" Ring

Post by John G. » 30 Dec 2019 14:07

Sorry to be the one, but the ring (and
cigarette box, EK ring, etc) are not original WW 1 items... There's no wear to the edges, the crown center is incorrect, plus his other items are bad and the ring is too!

Even if. Original you paid a premium price for a generic ring.... I collect WW 1 and I wouldn't give this one shelf space.... and I wouldn't believe it was real even if my Grandfather (a WW 1 vet.) said he Brought it home.

Post pictures next time and return this one ASAP.
Not a known knockoff.... But typical of the deal they sell on ebay.
John G.

Vint8ge
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Re: WWI "Battlefield Souvenir" Ring

Post by Vint8ge » 30 Dec 2019 16:33

Thanks John, no need to apologize. I came here for expertise in order to authenticate this and it seems we have gotten to the root of it.

I will contact seller ASAP and try to get a refund.

I can see that this was listed under collectibles, militaria, world war I, original period Items, Germany, personal field gear.

Therefore, this was not listed as a reproduction. I think I should be able to get my money back, even though the seller has a 'no returns' policy

Vint8ge
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Re: WWI "Battlefield Souvenir" Ring

Post by Vint8ge » 30 Dec 2019 21:32

Ok I have opened a return on eBay and plan to send this back "return to sender"

For reference, here's the "other" image of the only version of this ring I could find on the internet that was comprable (after searching for quite a long time this was the only thing that resembles it I could find!) I couldn't actually get back to the listing of this particular image, but I am guessing it was from an earlier eBay auction - literally I could only get the image off of Google image search and when I try to follow through back to the original page it was gone so I don't have any additional details about this "comprable" ring image or how it was listed.
ww2-german-trench-art-aluminium-ring.jpeg
You can tell it's not the same ring from the ebay listing i just bought.

Perhaps laughably, I had hoped this depiction was a "rare" version of the German Crown. :lol: And that I had gotten something rare :roll:

Well, I am still interested in authentic WWI / Imperial Germany artifacts, specifically rings. It's as if my itch has not been scratched.

I noticed there is a forum post where it recommends using this website and Community to buy authentic items. Maybe one of you could show me what average, good, better, and/or exceptional rings would look like, or speak to the rarity and value of this spectrum. (Trench art vs militaria/officers rings - to be honest I'm not really sure what's out there!)

Quite frankly I am reluctant to reach out to other sellers on eBay after this experience. From the perspective of asking for help here, It seems like there is some risk to posting ebay links if they are live, with the intent of asking whether or not the item is legitimate, because a bigger collector who browses this forum could just swoop in and "buy it now" rather than assist a newbie.

If anyone has any rings that they would consider selling, please let me know.

I appreciate you guys shooting straight, sharing your expertise and helping me catch this before I got caught with no way to return. I can tell this is a no BS community. If it's of interest, I can update what happens with the return.
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John G.
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Re: WWI "Battlefield Souvenir" Ring

Post by John G. » 30 Dec 2019 22:10

There are no official German WW 1 rings except the "iron for gold" types. I've seen Iron Cross and red/white/black enamel shields, and crowns... But most of those were made out of wartime crown buttons. Rings are extremely easy to make, once a mold is made you can make dozens of examples.

The new example is also junk... The center is obviously "sand cast" , and very crudely finished....

There plenty of WW 1 German stuff out there, rings are not an area I'd recommend, too many fakes and too few originals... and most are impossible to tell unless direct from a vet. Lot that you personally were there to see... and that doesn't happen with WW 1 stuff anymore.

The likelihood of anyone here jumping on an item you post is very slim, most of our following are not US, most are respectful of other members, and those members who are serious collectors are far beyond the type items most newbees are interested in. No offense intended.

Please continue to post youre items for our opinion, I've been collecting since 1958 and am more than happy to share my knowledge and opinion.... as do most of the members of the forum.
John G.

Vint8ge
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Re: WWI "Battlefield Souvenir" Ring

Post by Vint8ge » 30 Dec 2019 23:58

I have seen several iron for gold type rings. They're not the most compelling from a collectable standpoint in my opinion, as i tend to like things a little more unique, and precious metal makes an overall more impressive piece in general- which would obviously be lacking from those. Maybe I shouldn't overlook them completely.

I have to admit it had not occurred to me that most of this board was not US based. However now that you say it, that makes total sense including the fact that a seasoned collector would not be interested in something i find on ebay.

I have always found the imperial eagle to be a unique depiction, such as on the 1914 "1 mark" but I imagine coins is the way to go rather than rings for this kind of image. Coins are also more easy to establish authenticity and overall grades / quality.

I imagine it's possible that German men of the era were not as big on things like signet rings as say, the british.

my father's side of the family is half German and half British. Our German ancestors came from Nidda to usa in the second half of the 1800s. Perhaps this effort is a longing in myself to capture a relic that encapsulates this heritage.

Alas. We forget our history, and so many things become politicized.

Some of my interest would fall on the USA side of collectibles from world war I and perhaps world war II. I suppose that would be outside of the scope of the axis forum history/collecting community.

In this vein, a collection of unusual wwi and wwii rings has surfaced here:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?LH_Avai ... tpos=23226

You'll have to scroll past his non-military related rings. But you'll see one's like this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ORIGINAL-WWI-S ... Sw9H5bSSmq

This silver ring appearing to probably being the rarest and attributed of his lot
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ORIGINAL-WWI-S ... Swdb5d2cvv

Well, I don't want to take up too much of your time. I'm not sure either of these above would be items I would pursue for purchase, but I think it's worth pointing out that this is a pretty substantial collection being offered by that seller.

But at that price of the last one, a better bet would probably be this attributed d-day pilot ring in gold from a different seller (IMO)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/WW2-USAAF-Bomb ... SwsQJeB9Jv

But we're starting to get pretty far outside of the axis powers collectibles, and into world war II. $1000 is a far cry from where i started with this itch to scratch.

One last link, probably the best German world war II Ring on eBay right now:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/WW2-German-Luf ... SwuaFZeR33

also I'm not endorsing or making any statements about the authenticity of these items I have linked, these are just some of the best things I have seen after spending a few days looking at eBay just now. These all look real to me, but quite frankly I am way out of my depth... and at these prices I would need to be VERY confident before purchasing. I just do not know enough.

you said keep posting Links of what I'm looking at and these are some of the things I have seen over the past few days. Hope you enjoy

To wrap up this entry here, this is kind of the spectrum I see. $100-$500 for something in silver, maybe $700-$2000 for gold. Total value depends on attribution, and provenance. 8-)

appreciate your feedback John and to all the other members as well feel free to chime in and let me know what you think. Are these items I linked to authentic? Are they overpriced? I look forward to reading your thoughts

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John G.
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Re: WWI "Battlefield Souvenir" Ring

Post by John G. » 31 Dec 2019 00:30

Most of the U.S. Rings listed are real, any with specific unit identification are the most desirable from a collectors point of view. The enamel blue/white German ring stands a good chance, the skull rings are more than likely crap. The silver USAAF ring is iffy.....The ring itself looks good, but the center disc doesn't imho. The gold Luftwaffe Condor Legion ring is very questionable as far as the story and engraving. Imo worth gold content only. The sellers store has many questionable or way over priced items.

I have bought many military rings from jewelers, woman's jewelry dealers, pawn shops, coin dealers, etc. Usually for short money as most of the time there's little resale value except to us collectors. You should be able to buy most military rings for under $50.00. I have over 50 and haven't paid over $50. except for a couple large gold ones. (Talking US rings).

Good collecting, most satisfying hobby there is... But learn what's what, as stated by Mark...never believe the story, know the item!
John G.

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John G.
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Re: WWI "Battlefield Souvenir" Ring

Post by John G. » 31 Dec 2019 03:18

Looked again at the listing of other WW 1 stuff the guy who sold you the ring has, the match safe might be legit and the cigarette case actually looks good.... However both are way over priced. This doesn't change my opinion on the ring.... I just assumed you meant the items under the ring listing which are junk.... My mistake.
John G.

Vint8ge
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Re: WWI "Battlefield Souvenir" Ring

Post by Vint8ge » 31 Dec 2019 03:37

So the "crown" ring is not original to the time period, and you still believe the ring to be a reproduction/replica/later piece.

Once the package arrives I am planning to send it back return to sender without opening it, that way I can get a straight refund. The seller "approved the return" within ebay meaning he did not try to reject my return initiation.

On the topic of this gold ring, the seller offered it at $800, which would be about $450 over the spot value of the gold. :(
https://www.ebay.com/itm/WW2-USAAF-Bomb ... SwsQJeB9Jv
The provenance is cool but that's a bit high

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