How to tell if a flag is fake

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osiruscyn
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How to tell if a flag is fake

Post by osiruscyn » 07 Jul 2003 20:05

I was wondering if anyone can clue me in as to a couple of ways how to identify if a flag is authentic or a reproduction. Any help is appreciated.

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hohenstaufeninthehood
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Post by hohenstaufeninthehood » 08 Jul 2003 14:06

many are made of some sort of thin cheap nylon or cotton. if you can see through it, its probably fake.

cpittman
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Post by cpittman » 08 Jul 2003 15:56

What kind of flag are we talking about?

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osiruscyn
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Post by osiruscyn » 08 Jul 2003 17:53

A NSDAP Flag. I know about the illumination of the white circle but do all of these flags have some kind of marking identifying the maker or the origination of the flag?

cpittman
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Post by cpittman » 08 Jul 2003 18:08

Most NSDAP flags do not have any markings at all. I have seen them made out of different kinds of fabric with different printing and stitching variations. If you are getting it from a decent source and the swastika roundel is a seperate piece stitched to the red field with the swastika printed on it is probably good.

Chris P.

S&K KAHN
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Post by S&K KAHN » 10 Jul 2003 04:17

original german flags and banners were made from a variety of cotton,rayon and wool bases.
Contrary to the above response"if you can see through it is probaly a fake".This is wrong.German fabrics varied greatly in thickness and weight.Extremely lightweight cotton bases to heavy wool bases.All depended on the use the fabric was intended for.
Most cottonbase, multi piece flags and banners if held up to a light or window will show some transperancy.Certainly enough to see your hand through.
The majority of modern reproductions are made from nylon and polyester.Not cotton.The reason reproducers use nylon and polyester rather than cotton,is that cotton is much more expensive than synthetic fabric.A bale of cotton costs roughly about 5 times the amount for the same amount of polyester or nylon.
Testing for the presence of nylon or polyester is simple.Take a small length of thread,apply a lighter.Nylon or polyester will melt, and smell like plastic.Cotton and rayon will burn clean,leaving little or no residue,and smell like
burnt paper.Simple!
Blacklighting is of course a run of the mill test,to establish fluoresence.
The glow to avoid is the intense electric blue seen with a brand new Tshirt or printer paper.Of course a flag that has been washed in detergent may glow,but the glow induced by washing isnt anywhere near the intensity of the Tshirt or printer paper type.If you get the chance to blacklight before purchasing,i would advise not to buy if any flag or item that does glow,as it may be difficult to sell in the future.It is not a proven fact that if something glows it is not original but try selling something that does glow!.

regards S&K

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dasboot
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Post by dasboot » 12 Jul 2003 22:13

S&K KAHN wrote:

Testing for the presence of nylon or polyester is simple.Take a small length of thread,apply a lighter.Nylon or polyester will melt, and smell like plastic.Cotton and rayon will burn clean,leaving little or no residue,and smell like burnt paper.Simple!



not that easy my friend. Did you ever try this method?

first of all, you need a flag that has loose threads or you might cause a snag in the material if you dont. The reaction of burning is so fast that you really dont have a chance to determine originality. I would not recommend doing this test.

just my opinion. I tried it once.

S&K KAHN
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Post by S&K KAHN » 13 Jul 2003 00:45

This is a simple test,i dont understand why you have had problems with it.
And yes,ive done it dozens of times.

Obviously you only do the test if you can obtain a piece of thread with out damaging the piece.I thought this was self explanatory.

Also you dont have to actually observe the thread burning.Polyester and nylon wil melt into a ball of plastic.Which after cooling down,becomes a hard bead or ball of plastic residue.it simply doesent dissapear into thin air.If you burn the above type threads,and as long as the wind hasnt blown it away,the residue will be there weeks,months ,years later.

Cotton on the other hand will burn clean and will simply leave a little whisper of ash,And will virtually dissappear.

The bottom line is if you are left witha hard bead of plastic,you have come across a modern polymer based synthetic.Little or no trace element you have encountered rayon or cotton.

Smell difference is obvious,as soon as either thread is lit.synthetic smells like plastic,rayon or cotton burnt paper.


I have performed the tests on 2mm long sections of thread.you simply dont need large quantities of thread.
This test is a collector standard,and very simple.You dont destroy or damage a piece trying to do it but if the opportunity is there,why not?
Anything that is not detrimental to the piece and takes you one step closer to determining originality is in my book a great help.

Its simple test,but then again no one said you had to be smart to collect third reich items.

regards SKKAHN

The Mighty Sisto
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Post by The Mighty Sisto » 23 Jul 2003 00:45

Look for the little tag that says, 'Made in Japan' :D Japan makes Nazi flags, in fact, they reproduce alot of Nazi-era uniforms and daggers. They have a HUGE fetish when it comes to the Third Reich.

*The Mighty Sisto*

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Blitz
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Post by Blitz » 01 Sep 2003 08:36

I own a flag that has no manufacturing markings, and looks like it it was used on a podium. It has golden tassels along the bottom edge. I will post a photo very soon to show you what I mean.

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anythingww2
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Post by anythingww2 » 01 Sep 2003 14:04

"the swastika roundel is a seperate piece stitched to the red field with the swastika printed on it is probably good. "

is it worth more if the circle is sewn on the the swas sewn onto the circle versus printed on>? Could the date be determind. did the erarly flags have sewn on swas and the later ones printed?

bigdaddymike818
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Re: How to tell if a flag is fake

Post by bigdaddymike818 » 20 Jun 2016 03:06

I was thinking about buying this german state flag from ww2. It has a tag on it that says textiledruck alr and some other german shit. It looks too nice to be old. It doesnt glow under black light. Can you help me out?
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John G.
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Re: How to tell if a flag is fake

Post by John G. » 20 Jun 2016 15:44

This is a very poor reproduction!... really terrible !!!!! Wrong material, wrong printing detail of eagle and swastika, wrong markings, wrong tag, wrong rope, and wrong hem. Normally originals are much larger and would be not cheap!.... this one is completely valueless collector wise! It's a very poor fake!

Never buy anything German WW 2 without vetting it (checking it out) here or on any of the other reputable forums or dealer websites (ask about them here first too!) since you are obviously new to "collecting" German stuff.
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WireDog
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Re: How to tell if a flag is fake

Post by WireDog » 13 Jun 2017 07:50

Hi all. First post. I've been collecting for about 10 years. I am thinking about buying a NSDAP building banner that's damaged. But my expertise lies with armbands and field gear mainly. This flag passes all the suggested tests. Was wondering if this thread is still active and someone could help me authenticate. Thanks in advance.

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Mark in Cleveland, Tn.
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Re: How to tell if a flag is fake

Post by Mark in Cleveland, Tn. » 14 Jun 2017 05:37

If a big ass one, like 20'x3' or around that size, more than likey genuine. Howeverm these big ass building banners are not rare, and are a tough sell, we use them as table covers at shows,I like other TR dealers have had many, I have I would guess owned off an on the past 15 years 100 or so...

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