British Union of Fascists militaria

Discussions on other First and Second World War militaria and collecting in general. Hosted by John G & William Kramer.
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Rand
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Post by Rand » 15 Aug 2005 05:59

Yeah, I already know that 99% of BUF men fought for England, some even helping pick up defeated French and British troops from Dunkirk.

The uniform is meant as more of a fantasy-type idea, as two of the major men involved with the British Free Corps were BUF members.


Rand.

Menachem
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'Former' B.U.F. members

Post by Menachem » 15 Aug 2005 15:11

I understand that the two major people involved with the BFC had ceased to be B.U.F. members as long ago as 1938. Cooper certainly never wore a Blackshirt uniform and I've never seen any evidence that any others did.

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Rand
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Post by Rand » 16 Aug 2005 02:04

Cooper never worn the British Union uniform as he joined the group in 1938, after political uniforms had been banned. But party member badges were still allowed, and as such a
fantasy-type
British Free Corps uniform could have such a pin.

R.

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Kristijan
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Post by Kristijan » 17 Aug 2005 14:56

Rand wrote:Cooper never worn the British Union uniform as he joined the group in 1938, after political uniforms had been banned. But party member badges were still allowed, and as such a
fantasy-type
British Free Corps uniform could have such a pin.

R.


Yes,badges were still allowed,but you're missing the point here,and the point is that British Union of Fascists has nothing to do with British Free Corps!There were only few ex-B.U.F. members who were later members of BFC.I'm sure that you can also find ex-Conservative Pary members or supporters among BFC men,so why don't you make an BFC uniform with Conservative Party badge on it?The fact is that their belongings to some political party in GB has nothing to do with their later role in BFC.
If you want to put B.U.F. badge on some uniform,you should put it on British Army uniform,because,as we all agree,enormous majority of B.U.F. members joined the British Army to defend Britain in war against Axis Powers.

Kristijan

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Rand
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Post by Rand » 19 Aug 2005 23:43

I think that you are missing the point that I am doing a replica of a uniform that Thomas Cooper or any or the other 6 or so former BUF members could have worn when they joined the BFC. I understand your view point but..... enough of this.....

Cheers, and thanks again for your help in posting the picture of the part badge. Good luck with your BUF collection.

Rand.

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Kristijan
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Post by Kristijan » 22 Aug 2005 19:32

Rand wrote:I think that you are missing the point that I am doing a replica of a uniform that Thomas Cooper or any or the other 6 or so former BUF members could have worn when they joined the BFC.

Rand.


The major point of my posts is to try to explain you that it would be exactly opposite,or simply,not possible.All of former B.U.F. members who latter joined B.F.C. were B.U.F. members in first place because they saw Mosley Movement as some form of Fan Club of their idol,Adolf Hitler.As soon as they realised that B.U.F. was party that had it's own program and it's own Leader who was not one of Hitler's servant,their entusiasm in B.U.F. was quickly shattered,specially after Mosley declared message to all B.U.F. members at the beginning of WW2 in which he called all Party members not to do anything that would jeopardize interests of Great Britain in war against Germany('My country,right or wrong').This was direct punch in the face to all those who belived that Mosley would act as William Joyce or any other traitor,and it just showed what I already mentioned at the beggining of my post.
Those are just some of the reasons why it is VERY unlikely that Cooper or any other B.F.C. member would put B.U.F. badge on their uniform.

Rand wrote:Good luck with your BUF collection.


Thanks for that,my collection is groving,thanks to some members of this Forum.

Kristijan

Ljotrulf
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Re: British Union of Fascists militaria

Post by Ljotrulf » 25 Nov 2011 13:49

It is quite possible that Thomas Haller Cooper did indeed wear the BUF uniform even if he joined after the Public Order Act of 1936 since the wearing political uniforms was only banned in public. BUF members could and did wear their uniforms in private and some were even photograph wearing these post-WW2 in Franco's Spain. Some members were also know to wear the blackshirt with insignia under a lounge suit after 1936.

Menachem
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Re: British Union of Fascists militaria

Post by Menachem » 25 Nov 2011 15:59

It's very unlikely that Thomas Haller Cooper wore a BUF uniform, first of all he didn't join the BUF until well after the uniforms were banned so wouldn't have had an 'old uniform' he could slip on. He was anyway a member for a very short time. There were one or two dinners in the late 30's in which uniforms were worn, however, only a few people wore the uniform. Up until the war some members did wear the undress black shirt, however, it is worth noting that at the huge BUF Earls Court rally in July 1939, anyone wearing even an undress black shirt was denied entry by stewards

Ljotrulf
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Re: British Union of Fascists militaria

Post by Ljotrulf » 28 Nov 2011 13:29

Unlikely or not, it is still possible that Cooper wore BUF uniform (or rather the Black Shirt) as these could still be purchased post-Public Order Act and were still worn (without insignia) into the 1950s. We will probably never know as photographic evidence of Cooper is lacking in the public domain even of his service in the Waffen-SS. Francis McLardy spent much longer in the BUF (as did his brother) so it is far more likely that he was in possesion of a BUF uniform and BUF insignia. There is no evidence that any BFC soldier wore any insignia other than official W-SS insignia.

Menachem
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Re: British Union of Fascists militaria

Post by Menachem » 28 Nov 2011 17:46

Ok lets try this again...it's extremely unlikey that THC wore any sort of blackshirt, the guy was a non-active member of the BUF for a very short time. There is this urge by some people to link the BUF with the BFC, there was no link, a few ex-members of the BUF served in the BFC, thousands of former BUF members fought and died for their country.

Ljotrulf
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Re: British Union of Fascists militaria

Post by Ljotrulf » 29 Nov 2011 07:44

Ok lets try this again......however unlikely it is still possible that Cooper wore BUF uniform but IMO what he did or did not wear is of no historical significance. No implication that there was any link between the BUF and BFC as there was none. Such a link has only been made by some out of ignorance or by some with a political agenda.

bogo
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Re: British Union of Fascists militaria

Post by bogo » 09 Mar 2018 12:45

Claymore wrote:[Split from "British Union of Fascists items wanted"]



Hi Kristijan,

Can't help you with any BUF pieces, I only have a few items myself which are not for sale.

Do you know that there is a new book about to be published very soon called:

'Mosley's Men in Black: Uniforms,Flags and Insignia of the British Union of Fascists 1932-1940 & Union Movement'

This will be the only reference book on this subject worth owning. Keep an eye on Amazon, they have it listed already.

Regards.
Hi,
Here pictures of BUF-insignia from my collection. Please note one fasces without, one with lionshead.
Both are for sale.
Regards,
Dikeman
BUF3.jpg
DSCN0490.jpg
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