20mm flak ammo

Discussions on other First and Second World War militaria and collecting in general. Hosted by John G & William Kramer.
User avatar
Douglas 5
Member
Posts: 1032
Joined: 30 Aug 2004 18:54
Location: Nanaimo, BC, Canada

Measurments:

Post by Douglas 5 » 22 May 2005 17:44

Hi Pzgr40:
Number 3 is a burnt out shell with a dent that has polishing compound residue in it -no hole, get to it later .
Starting with the 2cm Flak round;
Picture 1: all measurments are - as remains after cleaning and filing - and probably are slightly under manifacturers specs.
a) Total length : 7.98cm
b) Ring diameter : 2.08cm
d) Groove is 1.5mm deep and 3mm wide
c) Bottom up to groove : 7.5mm
e) Bottom to center of band : 15.5mm
f) Vertical width of band : 4mm
g) At dotted line 20mm diameter ... slightly bulged at that spot
h) Diameter just above band 19.5mm
i) Nose taper approx 20mm long
j) Nose tip flat part about 9.6mm

Markings : 42 and 17

Douglas 5
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
Douglas 5
Member
Posts: 1032
Joined: 30 Aug 2004 18:54
Location: Nanaimo, BC, Canada

Bottom

Post by Douglas 5 » 22 May 2005 17:59

Picture 2 : Bottom of round scanned, poor picture :

a) Total diameter : 19.5mm
b) Outer shell : 3.5mm
c) A 1mm protruding - 2mm wide - harder steel ring - filed a bit to make it more visible
d) Inner core : 14mm

Douglas 5
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
Douglas 5
Member
Posts: 1032
Joined: 30 Aug 2004 18:54
Location: Nanaimo, BC, Canada

#1

Post by Douglas 5 » 30 May 2005 14:28

Hi Pzgr40 :
Is # 1 ...20mm projectile a plain steel round or more dangerous ?
Douglas 5

Pzgr40
Member
Posts: 47
Joined: 12 Apr 2005 10:09
Location: Europe

20 mm practice

Post by Pzgr40 » 30 May 2005 17:20

Hi Douglas, after a long search in my database, I think it is this Italian 20x138B type, with a modified crimp to place the base plug. However, I will not give a 100% shure as long as I have only seen pictures, but it LOOKS like a practice, the one on the left, with the basecrimp more like the AP on the right.
Regards, Pzgr40
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
Douglas 5
Member
Posts: 1032
Joined: 30 Aug 2004 18:54
Location: Nanaimo, BC, Canada

20mm

Post by Douglas 5 » 30 May 2005 20:17

Excelent work, I yes take your time, I am not trying to rush anything here.
After remesuring , quite certain myself that it is the one on the left .
Missed one detail mesurment...which points to the left one .. Band diameter is a good 20.9mm !
So it turns out to be an Italian 20x138B AP training round . From looking at diagram seams to be made lighter made round?
Not meant for combat ? Will post others soon, like the 50cal dug up from the SS Kaserne(Merrall Baracks) in Nürnberg !
Thanks, Douglas 5

User avatar
schwarzlose
Member
Posts: 158
Joined: 05 Jan 2004 22:03
Location: slovenija

Post by schwarzlose » 04 Jun 2005 21:22

At last here is the picture:
http://users.volja.net/ukosir/20mm3.jpg

Pzgr40
Member
Posts: 47
Joined: 12 Apr 2005 10:09
Location: Europe

Post by Pzgr40 » 04 Jun 2005 23:11

The ones without the shellcase are HE mechanical self destruct (see picture below). The ones with a shellcase are HE tracer self destruct.
I do know they are not your cartridges, but please advice the owner to have 'em removed by the propper authorities. Especially the ones with the mechanical self destruct is dangerous. It has a pre tensioned, spring loaded firing pin. The internal parts are made of aluminium steel and magnesium, and it's very hard to tell how far the safety mechanism's are corroded.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Pzgr40
Member
Posts: 47
Joined: 12 Apr 2005 10:09
Location: Europe

20mm

Post by Pzgr40 » 04 Jun 2005 23:47

PS , complete value of this set of cartridges is appr about 2/3 Euro. Brand new empty and completely safe ones cost about 20/25 euro a piece.
Regards Pzgr40

HE-T-SD : High expllosive - Tracer - Self Destruct
HE-M-SD : High explosive - Mechanical - Self Destruct
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
Douglas 5
Member
Posts: 1032
Joined: 30 Aug 2004 18:54
Location: Nanaimo, BC, Canada

Danger

Post by Douglas 5 » 07 Jun 2005 02:18

Schwarzlose :
Heed the warning Pzgr 40 gave !! Doe to the state of deteriation of those rounds thay may still go off !!
For other new collectors that might be reading this and have some of these , Do not collect them :have them removed by authorities at once ! Some types of these may go off on the slightes banging and bumping around !
UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCE SUBMERGE THE TIP IN ANY PENETRATING OIL !! Thats like lighting a time delay fuse !!
Dissolving the rust and corrosion that is holding the pin back is what will happen !
If they all were to suddenly go off ..... a few rooms in the house will be missing !! Even the ignitor cartage alone can tear ones fingers or hand off !! This happend some time ago to a friend of mine !

Douglas 5

User avatar
Douglas 5
Member
Posts: 1032
Joined: 30 Aug 2004 18:54
Location: Nanaimo, BC, Canada

50 cal

Post by Douglas 5 » 07 Jun 2005 06:10

Hi Pzgr40 :
As promised some pictures of 3 types of 50cal projectiles :most likely Browning . 1 and 2 seam to have a very soft , pure like , copper shell as 3 , the only actually fired, seams to have a harder copper aloy shell . 1and 2 were found near Vienna and 3 is from Nürnberg , Germany .
Pictures with mesurments to follow !
Douglas 5
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
Douglas 5
Member
Posts: 1032
Joined: 30 Aug 2004 18:54
Location: Nanaimo, BC, Canada

Projectiles

Post by Douglas 5 » 07 Jun 2005 06:48

Measurments : Hope this is enough:
Total length of # 1 ..... 59.3mm
Total length of # 2 ..... 58.5mm
#1 is a burnt out tracer of some type,
#2 steel core and #3 crimped bottom over steel plate with unknown(AP) core ?
#1 and 2 ......bottom flare length is : 8.7mm
#1 and 2 .......bottom to first ring is : 18.5mm
#4.................rings 4mm apart
#1 and 3 have paralel rippled groves in the ring
#2 has a smooth ring
All rings are 2mm wide

Pictures:
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Matt L
Member
Posts: 153
Joined: 15 Apr 2003 06:08
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Re: Shells

Post by Matt L » 08 Jun 2005 18:12

Douglas 5 wrote:Got one round I am not sure of , has an aluminum full tip painted blue that does not come off .
Is it a 2cm round or smaller Douglas? I have two 2cm MG151/20 rounds in my collection (empty, of course :wink: ) that I believe are incendiary tracer rounds- aluminum AZ 1528A fuzes, painted all blue, green self-destruct indicator band below the fuze and red tracer band above the driving band. There were 13mm MG131 incendiary rounds that just had a full tip- not a standard fuze- all blue too...

Matt

User avatar
Douglas 5
Member
Posts: 1032
Joined: 30 Aug 2004 18:54
Location: Nanaimo, BC, Canada

2 cm Flak

Post by Douglas 5 » 08 Jun 2005 22:25

Hi Matt : Raining over there too ?
As it goes , I have been looking for that one , still have to find it . I think it is also a 20mm round too . The 30mm and 50mm ones I had to surrender, they were almost mint full rounds - SD Types . Got some empty casings for them some where , will take pictures when I find them . The 8mm Luftwaffe machine gun round has a blue ring and black tip . Look for it now.
Douglas 5

Matt L
Member
Posts: 153
Joined: 15 Apr 2003 06:08
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Post by Matt L » 09 Jun 2005 17:31

Yup, as usual Douglas :D I'll be curious to see your rounds when you find them.

Matt

User avatar
DetectorCollector
Member
Posts: 187
Joined: 16 Apr 2005 15:36
Location: the Netherlands

Post by DetectorCollector » 09 Jun 2005 18:29

Blue with red ring at the bottom is AP with a massive steel core.

Return to “Other WW1 & WW2 Militaria”