Information on Armoured Cars at 1949 PRC Founding Ceremony

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nuyt
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Re: Information on Armoured Cars at 1949 PRC Founding Ceremony

Post by nuyt » 26 Aug 2021 15:57

If they are 353s then the must be made during WW2 or after. I do not know when 353s started arriving with the KMT troops (maybe in Burma already?).
Great pics by the way and also thanks for some bits of info there!

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Re: Information on Armoured Cars at 1949 PRC Founding Ceremony

Post by nuyt » 26 Aug 2021 16:04

fantastic article in the link and lots of picture I never saw before!

Can someone translate what they say about this 4x2 armoured car. This is the one I mentioned before and discussed in this thread:
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/theover ... -t941.html
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Re: Information on Armoured Cars at 1949 PRC Founding Ceremony

Post by Blorange » 26 Aug 2021 16:41

The article doesn't seem to go into the specific history of many of the vehicles pictured, but rather talks about the background of the Shanghai Police Department's armoured unit in the context of the television program Fearless Whispers (which I hadn't heard of before, though it was only released 2018).

Evidently, whilst displaying photographs of the 4x4s, the article states that three armoured cars were held back for the transportation of the unit's superiors in the event of the Communists taking the city (that's my inference from what's stated). There seems to have been a power struggle within the unit at the time, though ultimately power was ceded to the Communists and the vehicles were never used for any escape attempts. Rather those photographs that there are from these period show them performing policing duties and according to the article, being used as gate guards to the city to welcome in Communist troops.

The article doesn't provide any sources however, and I haven't seen the series either - in case perhaps some details are being taken from that as opposed to being historic fact. Though that's par the course for this type of article. I'd take at least what occurred external as writ (i.e. that the police ceded to the PLA), but can't confirm anything about the internal manoeuvring. It may be worth looking up some of the names mentioned in the article and seeing if there's any secondary sources on their careers / fates.

I'd have to put the article by some friends that are better with their Chinese than I though. Um, as it was more a slog of reading through and comparing what was there with the Google translation (which is why I'm inferring that there was a peaceful transition of power within the unit).

This all leads me to wonder if any of these armoured cars ever seen combat. They may have been used in policing actions against civilians or guerrillas. However the history painted by that article states that they were never used by the Nationalists to fight the Communist forces. And with them being produced so late into the Civil War I'm not sure there were many Nationalist units around for them to fight by the time the Communists seized them...

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Re: Information on Armoured Cars at 1949 PRC Founding Ceremony

Post by nuyt » 27 Aug 2021 10:29

Thanks Blorange!

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Re: Information on Armoured Cars at 1949 PRC Founding Ceremony

Post by Blorange » 27 Aug 2021 15:19

Tsk, having typed all that. I forgot that there was a thread here from 2006 that partially discussed these vehicles:

viewtopic.php?f=101&t=106682

Quote:

The Nanjing National government has imported some GMC ten-wheeled trucks from the United States in the middle of 1930s,and then produced some ten-wheeled armoured vehicles on the chassis of the GMC trucks.Those vehicles have different figures and equipments such as 37mm guns or Maxim heavy machine guns.They have seen in action in the Sino-Japanese war and later in the civil war.

Its brief, but yes, I wondered where I'd read that at least one of the models pictured had been in service earlier than the Civil War. Which somewhat contradicts that article discussion the television program. But at least explains where a possible pre-WWII source for those trucks was. Um, assuming that that model of truck had a pre-WWII model that is.

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Re: Information on Armoured Cars at 1949 PRC Founding Ceremony

Post by nuyt » 14 Sep 2021 22:27

Some more pictures of the various armored cars
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Re: Information on Armoured Cars at 1949 PRC Founding Ceremony

Post by Blorange » 14 Sep 2021 22:55

Ooh, I hadn't seen all of those before. :)

Thanks for the third picture in particular. It gives me an insight into what the rear of those vehicles looked like (which is a common problem with obscure vehicles).

The first vehicle is curious in that it seems to lack a turret - which was a common feature of Chinese armoured cars. Though I guess in such a large Country there can be variation. Though I'd assume that with it having a rear facing Machine Gun mount it would have one at the front as well. Is that a side MG mount too? I'm trying to work out what all the internal space would be used for - other than as a personnel carrier - though it appears to lack the necessary access hatches. Making me think that those "slits" on the rear and sides are intended for vision for machine guns.

In the fourth plate there seems to be some differences in the build of the vehicle (note the front grill's angle of the armour), presumably indicating that whilst they may have been built in serial, changes were implemented over time - or there was just variance in how each build team interpreted the design. Or I'm clearly mistaken and they were merely similar looking vehicles, but not from the same production run (the vehicles further back in the shot look more uniform with the one in the foreground, as opposed the the three following it).

Interesting as well that these armoured cars are based on 6x4 truck chassis. That too is a common factor with almost all the conversions I've seen, outside of a few based on the smaller Dodge 4x4. Perhaps as trucks were more readily available compared to heavy duty civilian cars capable of accepting the weight of the added armour.


Elsewhere work on that armoured car model I mentioned has slowed a bit as other things have came across my painting table. But I'll get back around to it eventually...

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