Strange bedfellows

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Finnigan
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Strange bedfellows

#1

Post by Finnigan » 24 Jul 2006, 22:14

My ex-wife's father, (now deceased), was a part of the US 4th Marine Regiment in Shanghai just pior to Pearl Harbor. His regiment was transferred to the Philippines and he was later taken prisoner on Corrigedor in May of 1942, and spent the rest of the war as a POW.

While in Shanghai, the 4th Marines were under the tactical command of the British as a part of the defense force for the International Settlement there.

This was a multi-national force that included US, Commonwealth, Italian, French, and even Japanese troops. It was a brigade-sized force, (though only at cadre strength)

While in Shanghai the 4th Marines published a regimental newspaper for the regiment. His estate included a copy of one edition. The cover story talked about the 'Battle of the, (I can't recall the name), Bridge, and was an article, really, about a bar room brawl between the the US Marines, and Italian Marines from the San Marco Marine regiment; (A weak cadre-sized detchment of battalion size).

Only half a dozen patrons or so on each side were involved.

It was a tongue-in-cheek humorous article, claiming, (naturally), the the Marines had 'won' the melee, and that the Italians had been duly hustled off to the brig by the Shore Patrol.

My question is this:

The Italians were a component of the multi-national force in the International Settlements. This force also included British Commonwealth troops (from Great Britain, Australia, and Canada, I believe), and was commanded by a British officer.

Does this mean that from June of 1940, until December, 1941 (about a year and a half), that Italians served under a British command in China at the same time they were at war with each other in Europe and North Africa?

I would be most interested to know just what the components of this Shanghai defense force was, and when they were transferred in or out.
Last edited by Finnigan on 26 Jul 2006, 15:43, edited 1 time in total.

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Barry Graham
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#2

Post by Barry Graham » 25 Jul 2006, 03:25

Italy declared war on Britain and France on June 10 1940.
It's possible the "bar room " event occurred before then.


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Windward
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#3

Post by Windward » 25 Jul 2006, 05:06

Shanghai was controled by Japanese, so technically Shanghai was a neutral zone. British, American and French troops in Shanghai didin't fight against Italian troop, even after June 1940. Of course the Italian didn't accept British command then.

British troops left Shanghai in August 1940, (August 1st IIRC), and the few American troops in Shanghai left since October.

BTW, American captives from Wake Island were pilloried on Shanghai street on Jan 12 1942, and US Marine captives from Peiking, Tientsin and other Chinese ports were transfered to Shanghai on Feb 1. Japanese planned to pillory them in a bigger parade, to humiliate white people (they asked emigrants in Shanghai who come from India, Philippines, Siam, Turkey and other Aisian countries to join the parade), but German and Italian diplomats in Shanghai protested, so the second parade was cancelled.

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Peter H
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#4

Post by Peter H » 26 Jul 2006, 13:38

The Italians in China:

http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastindies/shanghai.html

http://www.trentoincina.it/mostrapost.php?id=90


In essence overall command of the different contingents rested with the International Settlement Municipal Council.Each force policed and defended its own Concession area.The Shanghai Volunteer Corps was allocated to the British(the largest) sector from 1937 as war approached Shanghai.

The situation in mid 1940 was messy for the British at Shanghai--both Vichy French and Italian contingents were near them in a posture of benign neutrality.The British withdrawal in August solved this problem as well.

The 4th Marines pulled out in November 1941.

Finnigan
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#5

Post by Finnigan » 26 Jul 2006, 15:40

I cannot tell you how impressed I am with the depth of knowledge that exists in these forums. From the well known and often discussed subjects, to the extremely tiny little backwaters of WWII, (such as this topic), someone here always seems to have some knowledge to share.

Thanks for that information, and those links.

/salute

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