Early Japanese Campaign(s) in the 2ndSino-Japanese War

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asiaticus
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Early Japanese Campaign(s) in the 2ndSino-Japanese War

Post by asiaticus » 03 Aug 2006 19:59

I have these listed as the names for the first campaigns of the Sino Japanese War, from
Hsu Long-hsuen and Chang Ming-kai, History of The Sino-Japanese War (1937-1945) :

1. Peiking Tientsin Operation (July-August 1937)
2. Operation Chahar / Peiking –Suiyuan Railway Operation (August 1 - 31, 1937)
3. Shanghai Campaign (Aug. 11 – Mid Dec. 1937 )
4. Northern Peiking – Hankow Railway Operation (Mid August 1937– Dec. 1937)
5. Northern Sector Tientsin – Pukow Railway Operation (Early August to mid November, 1937)
6. Battle of Taiyuan (Sept. – Early Nov. 1937)

I am wondering what the Japanese called them?

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Re: Early Japanese Campaign(s) in the 2ndSino-Japanese War

Post by Akira Takizawa » 04 Aug 2006 00:38

1. Peiking Tientsin Operation (July-August 1937)
北支事変
2. Operation Chahar / Peiking –Suiyuan Railway Operation (August 1 - 31, 1937)
チャハル作戦
3. Shanghai Campaign (Aug. 11 – Mid Dec. 1937 )
第二次上海事変
4. Northern Peiking – Hankow Railway Operation (Mid August 1937– Dec. 1937)
京漢線作戦
5. Northern Sector Tientsin – Pukow Railway Operation (Early August to mid November, 1937)
津浦線作戦
6. Battle of Taiyuan (Sept. – Early Nov. 1937)
太原作戦

Taki
Last edited by Akira Takizawa on 04 Aug 2006 08:33, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Early Japanese Campaign(s) in the 2ndSino-Japanese Wa

Post by asiaticus » 04 Aug 2006 07:44

Ok, Thanks Taki

Hmm, I am getting these as a translation:

1. Peiking Tientsin Operation (July-August 1937)
北支事変

The North Chinese Incident?


2. Peiking –Suiyuan Railway Operation (August 1 - 31, 1937)
チャハル 作戦

チャハル = Chahar? Maneuvers or Operation?

3. Shanghai Campaign (Aug. 11 – Mid Dec. 1937 )
第二次上海事変


Second Shanghai Incident?

4. Northern Peiking – Hankow Railway Operation (Mid August 1937– Dec. 1937)
京漢線作戦


Chinese Capital (Rail)line Maneuvers or Operation?

5. Northern Sector Tientsin – Pukow Railway Operation (Early August to mid November, 1937)
津浦線作戦


Tsu Inlet (Rail)line Maneuvers or Operation?
What does the Tsu Inlet refer to?


6. Battle of Taiyuan (Sept. – Early Nov. 1937)
太源作戦


太源 = It is thick the source? My map of the 100 Regiments shows 太源 as Taiyuan, so
Taiyuan Maneuvers or Operation?

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Re: Early Japanese Campaign(s) in the 2ndSino-Japanese War

Post by Windward » 04 Aug 2006 07:51

Akira Takizawa wrote:1. Peiking Tientsin Operation (July-August 1937)
北支事変
2. Operation Chahar / Peiking –Suiyuan Railway Operation (August 1 - 31, 1937)
チャハル作戦
3. Shanghai Campaign (Aug. 11 – Mid Dec. 1937 )
第二次上海事変
4. Northern Peiking – Hankow Railway Operation (Mid August 1937– Dec. 1937)
京漢線作戦
5. Northern Sector Tientsin – Pukow Railway Operation (Early August to mid November, 1937)
津浦線作戦
6. Battle of Taiyuan (Sept. – Early Nov. 1937)
太源作戦

Taki

literally translation and Chinese names
1, 北支事変 Northern China Incident / 卢沟桥事变 (Incident of Marco Polo Bridge)

2, チャハル作戦 Operation Chahar / 长城抗战 (Battle of the Great Wall)

3, 第二次上海事変 The Second Shanghai Incident / 八一三事变 (Incident of August 13th) and 凇沪会战 (Battle of Wusung-Shanghai)

4, 京漢線作戦 Peiking – Hankow Railway Operation / 武汉会战 (Battle of Wuhan)

5, 津浦線作戦 Tientsin – Pukow Railway Operation / 徐州会战 (Battle of Süchow)

6, 太源(太原?) 作戦 Battle of Taiyuan / 太原会战 (Battle of Taiyuan)

regards

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Re: Early Japanese Campaign(s) in the 2ndSino-Japanese Wa

Post by Windward » 04 Aug 2006 08:03

asiaticus wrote:
5. Northern Sector Tientsin – Pukow Railway Operation (Early August to mid November, 1937)
津浦線作戦


Tsu Inlet (Rail)line Maneuvers or Operation?
What does the Tsu Inlet refer to?

forget the online translation.

津 = 天津, Tientsin or Tianjin, the largest city near Peking and a major railway junction
浦 = 浦口, Pukow or Pukou, a small town near Nanking, across Yangtze River.

There were no bridges on Yangtze River so Pukou was the termination of the railway which links Peking and Shanghai at that time. Trains must across Yangtze River by ferries.


4. Northern Peiking – Hankow Railway Operation (Mid August 1937– Dec. 1937)
京漢線作戦

Chinese Capital (Rail)line Maneuvers or Operation?

京 = Peking
漢 = 漢口 (Hankow, now part of Wuhan)
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Post by Windward » 04 Aug 2006 08:05

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/n_china_1912.jpg

you can find Peking, Tientsin (Tien-chin), Pukow (P'u-k'ou), Nanking and Shanghai on this map.

regards
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Post by Akira Takizawa » 04 Aug 2006 08:34

太源作戦 is my mistake. 太原作戦 is correct.

Taki

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Re: Early Japanese Campaign(s) in the 2ndSino-Japanese War

Post by asiaticus » 04 Aug 2006 09:59

Taki and Windward, thanks. That helps.

I am curious about the names of these battles:


4, 京漢線作戦 Peiking – Hankow Railway Operation / 武汉会战 (Battle of Wuhan)


Was the Japanese intention for this Operation to end up in Hankow holding the line all the way back to Peiking?

5, 津浦線作戦 Tientsin – Pukow Railway Operation / 徐州会战 (Battle of Süchow)


So for the Japanese and/or Chinese was this battle is actually considered to end after the fall of Hsuchou in late May of 1938 linked up the railline to Pukow? Any of the battles in 1938 (Taierzhang March - April 1938, Linyi March - April 1938, Hsuchow May-June 1938) being sub battles within the campaign?
Date of the campaign should be Early August 1937 to June 1938?

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Post by Akira Takizawa » 05 Aug 2006 06:03

I cannot understand why they are called Battle of Wuhan or Battle of Süchow in China. They were not fought there and they were not even objects for operations.

Taki

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Post by asiaticus » 05 Aug 2006 07:41

Taki
Was the original plan to stop on the line of the Yellow River and hold north China alone? Then when the Shanghai Nanjing situation failed to get China to give in that December of 1937 the Japanese decided to push on to the south?

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Post by Akira Takizawa » 05 Aug 2006 14:04

asiaticus wrote:Taki
Was the original plan to stop on the line of the Yellow River and hold north China alone?


Original plan is to fight the Chinese on the line between Baoding and Duliu (20 km south of Tientsin). But, the Chinese withdrew without fight and the Japanese went south pursuing them. The GHQ at Tokyo ordered the North-China Expeditionary Army to stop. But, generals of the North-China Expeditionary Army ignored Tokyo and continued to advance. At last, they stopped at Zhangde and Jinan, because the reinforcement to the Battle of Taiyuan became necessary.

Taki

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2 Plans for North China?

Post by asiaticus » 06 Aug 2006 22:17

Ok so we have two plans of Operation on the Japanese side. What Tokyo GHQ had in mind and what the imperialist hot heads on the ground in North China had in mind.

What did the imperialist group have in mind? I am thinking from things I have read the GHQ wanted a limited aquisition of rights and territiory.

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Re: 2 Plans for North China?

Post by Akira Takizawa » 07 Aug 2006 06:08

asiaticus wrote:What did the imperialist group have in mind?


Their thoughts were various. Some thought to occupy wide and some thought to occupy narrow. One of influential generals Itagaki wrote a letter as follows.

"In North China, it is good to occupy the line of Suiyuan - Taiyuan - Shinjiazhuang - Jinan - Chingtao and establish a new North China Government."


Taki

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Re: 2 Plans for North China?

Post by asiaticus » 07 Aug 2006 20:55

Hmm, so after the battle of Taiyuan and the landing at Tsingtao they were pretty well where they wanted to be. Apparently Chiang's refusal to make peace after the fall of Nanjing pushed them to take more extreme measures than they had first contemplated.

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Post by Akira Takizawa » 08 Aug 2006 17:37

Imperialist generals did no have any long vision toward the war. They thought that Chiang Kai-shek would sue for peace, if North China was occupied. But, he refused. Next, they occupied Nanking. But, still No. So, they occupied more. Like this, the Japanese stuck in a quagmire war.

Taki

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