Chinese Artillery

Fabi · Post by **Fabi** » 09 Jan 2007 16:12

What artillery pieces were used in the Chinese Army from 1925 to 1940?
I only know about some old belgian 75mm guns in the Imperial Army and some Stokes mortars mounted on cart wheels during the war against the Warlords in Northern China. But I don't know what other guns they used, especially in the fight against the Japanese in Manchuria in 1931.

Carl Schwamberger · Post by **Carl Schwamberger** » 09 Jan 2007 20:31

Aside from the Belgian items there was a electic mix of Krupp, Skoda, Armstrong, Schneider, & others. Mostly old & realatively light cannon and never very many of any particular model.

US Army officers who traveled amoung the Chinese in the 1930s noted that the warlord forces that were being asorbed into the Nationalist military system had a variety of small batches of cannon that they did not seem to have much, if any, ammo for. And, which the crews did not seem to be able to fire. They just kept these guns polished up to pretend they were a real combat force. The US military mission to China between 1945-1948 noted the large variety of obsolete & useless cannon parked around the Nationalist army camps and barracks. Again every sort of light gun made between 1890 & 1940 seems to have been on the list. But few of any specific model.

The Germans sent a military mission to China in the 1930s. This seems to have caused the concentration of Krupp guns in one of the Chinese army corps. And suspsosedly a few (12?) of the 88 FLAK guns were sent, but I never confirmed this. The well trained Nationalist corps that fought the Japanese so well in 1938 near Nanking seems to have been well provided with artillery. The Krupp guns if I recall correctly.

Initialy the Communist used the same miscl light guns as the warlords. Probablly taken from the warlords. Plus any captured Japanese guns after 1937. I dont know at all if they obtained any Soviet artillery. After 1945 they had a lot of captured Japanese cannon and from 1947-49 much of the US artillery abandonded by the Nationalists

The US sent modern 105mm & 155mm cannon in 1942-44. Enough for a couple corps worth. The US General Stillwell was outraged in early 1944 when a Chinese general allowed 50 of these cannon to be captured by the Japanese, while stored in a warehouse. Stillwell claimed the Nationalist Chinese goverments policy was to withold the best equipment from the armys faciing the Japanese, for use against the Communist army later.

Lighter 75mm US packhowitzers may have also been sent to the Chinese, but I dont recall specific refrences to those. The three Chinese divisions Stillwell used in Burma had US cannon.

A US journalist touring Nationalist miitary camps in 1943 noted a small park of captured Japanese cannon.

Fabi · Post by **Fabi** » 10 Jan 2007 16:32

Thank you.
I think the Germans also sent 37mm AT guns and 20mm Flak 30's and also a few 3.7cm Flak 18.
Very interesting information. Was very helpful!

Carl Schwamberger · Post by **Carl Schwamberger** » 11 Jan 2007 03:33

Sorry I dont have specific model identification or quantities at hand. I am citing from memory of items read many years ago.

Hopefully others will help with detailed information.

White Star · Post by **White Star** » 25 Jan 2007 02:10

I know that Germany sold China 16 Flak36 88cm AA Gun.
And the Eight Route Army and New 4th Army also captured many Japanese motars for use.

Carl Schwamberger · Post by **Carl Schwamberger** » 27 Jan 2007 17:17

"I know that Germany sold China 16 Flak36 88cm AA Gun. "

I've seen those mentioned. Again they seem to have been part of the 'German trained corps'.

pitman · Post by **pitman** » 30 Jan 2007 22:14

Basically, Chinese divisions tended to use mortars because they had little other artillery.

ShanghaiExpress · Post by **ShanghaiExpress** » 08 Feb 2007 01:35

The Nationalists had 800 artillery pieces when war began in 1937. The most powerful were 24 15cm howitzers from Germany. Another batch of 24 pieces were delivered, but I'm not sure if they had arrived by the Battle of Shanghai. One batch was Rheinmetal and the other Krupp. During the retreat from the Shanghai area a number of 15cm howitzers were dumped in a river because the bridges that they had to cross were demolished ahead of schedule.

In addition to the 88s, there were an additional 160 German 3.7cm Flak guns, which I believe were mostly not yet operational during the Battle of Shanghai.

One of the biggest problems China had with heavy cannons was the lack of motorized transport to move them. Hence the preference for older 75mm guns. I believe a program to manufacture 10.5cm German howitzers were under way in Hanyang but this was still incomplete when the Japanese overran the city.

Other than 3.7cm antitank guns, China was not able to manufacture artillery throughout the war due to the loss of its steel industries in Hanyang and Wuhan. There was an attempt to copy a French 120mm mortar which was finally in production in 1945 and only around 50 were made. I found it surprising the Nationalists did not import a larger number of Soviet artillery and production of M1938 120mm mortar.

Carl Schwamberger · Post by **Carl Schwamberger** » 08 Feb 2007 13:34

Whats your take on the type & quantity of the other cannon. Its been twenty + years since I read on this subject & I recall the books were a bit vague & contradictory.

Fabi · Post by **Fabi** » 08 Feb 2007 19:44

http://www.network54.com/Forum/330333/t ... +1923-1934
They also used very often the Chinese HIH 75mm inf howitzer but I don't know exactly the origin of this gun or how many of them were used and when.

ShanghaiExpress · Post by **ShanghaiExpress** » 06 Oct 2007 11:00

Came across another site with some answers:

http://f16.parsimony.net/forum27947/messages/8282.htm

Note more complete lists are to be found in the relies to that post.